Referencing Past Authors

Done in moderation, it can be okay. But if you do it too often, it's going to look like you're trying to be clever and show how many big authors you've read.

I used Jack London as a character in one novel. He was in the city where the novel is set during time period I wrote about, so why not use him. I can't see not using at least a few in a book about art, literature, music, etc.

I recall Proust invented the character Bergotte in his novel In Search of Lost Time. That was in fact, the author Anatole France, who Proust knew personally.

So in that instance, he fictionalised the name. He did that with everyone in the book, as far as I recall.

Does it advance the plot? Tell me more about the characters? Is it funny like two hit men talking about a foot massage?

Or is it more of a personal soapbox? A bit of authorly self-indulgence?

That's all down to how you write it. Like many things it can be done well or it could be a distraction for your readers. I generally don't care about what books a fictional character has read. I'm more interested in their character, their feelings, their back story. I want them to do things, damnit.

Can't say for certain without seeing a piece if text, but is get a hunch that this may be something that you would be advised to dial down, if not out altogether.

JacobS.Tucker said:

Well for instance, there's a scene where one of my main characters is worried about the newfound alcoholism of one of the other characters.

But he walks into the living room (after a huge fight with the second character) and sees him reading a book, sprawled out on the couch reading Victor Hugo's Les Miserables.

Like that. That's what I'm talking about.

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Why is the book he's reading relevant to the story? Is it a plot device? Does it tell us something about the character? Does Victor Hugo/France/poverty/some other theme appear throughout the story?

If it's not/doesn't, I would dial it back lest it become name dropping.

I'm always wary of this sort of thing because, like Ana said, it can come across as a cheap method to show how "sophisticated" your characters are, or to say something "deep" about who they are by telling us what they read. There are better methods of letting us know about a character. Too many references induces eye-rolling because we suddenly see you, the writer, pointing at the book the character is reading and saying, "Look! Look what he's reading! He's so cool!"

This isn't to say you can't give your characters literary taste. Just be careful to make it part of who they are instead of a shortcut for characterizing them.

Full disclosure: I had a fantastic time with my latest WIP because two of the characters are Shakespearean actors and so quip at each other--and others--with Shakespearean quotes. Good fun for me, and hopefully for the reader, too!

My question really comes down to: does the reader need to know the referenced author(etc's) works to understand the reference?

A reference that is a standard for you may not be for me. For instance, I have a Master's in lit but I've never even lifted a book by Victor Hugo. The problem would be even more widespread when dealing with a wide variety of readers.

The best use of this kind of thing I've ever seen is American Psycho. Ellis goes WAY (probably too far, heh, but it's still brilliant) into several pop culture/music artists. But he does so in a very careful way so that the reader will be able to follow and buy-in.. also he's very laser focused on a certain time frame, etc (80s stuff).

Casting a wide net and delving too deeply into classicalish literature risks boring, confusing, or dis-interesting your audience IF knowledge of the works is required to really 'get' what you're doing with the story.

If there's no obvious reason why the reader has to know a character is reading a particular book, or knowing the title adds nothing to the reader's understanding of the character, then mentioning its name/author is pointless.

JacobS.Tucker said:

This does happen though. There is a theme of poverty throughout the novel that constantly reoccurs. Albeit, I didn't really draw the connection between the two. But that's interesting.

To everyone else, I may have perhaps exaggerated how much I'm putting names in. It's really only happened about three times so far, so it's not necessarily a lot, but I will be wary to not do it too many times.

Thanks

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Anna Spargo-Ryan said:

Why is the book he's reading relevant to the story? Is it a plot device? Does it tell us something about the character? Does Victor Hugo/France/poverty/some other theme appear throughout the story?

If it's not/doesn't, I would dial it back lest it become name dropping.

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So what's wrong with name dropping? It may be bad form at a cocktail party, but usually considered so only by those who can't drop names of their own.

I don't generally do that, with fiction writers anyway. I want to create my own, original world, and referencing other writers can make a novel seem derivative, even if it's not. Sure, a brief mention wouldn't be off-putting to me as a reader, but it's not always interesting to do so.

Nonfiction books, on the other hand, are something I push. I want my readers to know about history and science, and while my story may not involve too much of either, a brief mention of a book or writer can spark potential interest. Nothing makes a fiction world more real than to study the real world, and all I do should feel real. That's the goal, anyway.

Jamesaritchie said:

So what's wrong with name dropping? It may be bad form at a cocktail party, but usually considered so only by those who can't drop names of their own.

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Name dropping serves the writer, not the story.

Seems to me to be no different that any other cultural reference. The key questions, always, are:

1. How does it benefit the narrative?

2. Will the readers understand it? It's one thing to mention, say, Charles Dickens, whom everyone knows about, and another to mention F. Marion Crawford, a big-selling Victorian writer nobody reads anymore.

caw

I see no problem in doing this, if - as many have already said - you don't overdo it. So you mention the book a character is reading? It adds to the depth and richness of what we're reading, imo. It's like saying a color is red vs. blood red. It adds detail, and nuance, and insight into the character who is reading Victor Hugo.

I recall in the TV show, 'Lost,' (which ended very ineffectively, imo), that books were often mentioned. There were books on shelves; sometimes various characters were seen reading or holding a book; and so on. I loved that part of the story - it was like, why is he reading that book? (Sometimes it turned out that book was the only one anyone could find to read.) It just added another detail to the overall story which many found interesting.

If one of your characters was painting, it wouldn't be odd for him to talk about Van Gogh or Rembrandt, right? If another were a kayaking fiend, you'd expect to find him downloading pictures of his various trips, or bringing up the subject, and if another were a dancer, you'd expect to walk in on him or her practicing a new routine. If someone is a reader, well then, what's wrong with finding him reading a book - and mentioning its title? Or even to briefly bring up the book in dialogue?

So I don't get why this is a big deal. Just write it the way the characters want you to.

Another danger I think is that it invites comparison - and if they are talking about a great or at least highly popular book yours might well come out of the wrong end of that comparison and leave the reader thinking "I wish I was reading that book and not reading about these people talking about that book."

I wondered about this question. I have a dark undersea god in my book that isn't Cthulhu, nor even very similar, but might make one think of Lovecraft. I wavered about mentioning him by name, but then decided, why not? If you sat down and Googled "dark god sleeping under the sea," Cthulhu is the first hit, so the characters mention it briefly.

Spiral Jacobs said:

If you sat down and Googled "dark god sleeping under the sea," Cthulhu is the first hit,

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Wow. I thought it would have been Jimmy Hoffa.

caw

blacbird said:

Wow. I thought it would have been Jimmy Hoffa.

caw

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Nah, he's under Giants Stadium.

For me, I hate having to wiki every pop culture reference, so I prefer stories whose plots don't rest on me knowing all of those references. I don't mind some references, but I wouldn't read a book that relies on them. If there are enough context clues, that could be fine.

I can read non-fiction books and articles, visit pop culture websites, read magazines, or visit Tumblr/TVTropes/Wikipedia, watch documentaries, etc, if I want to know about pop culture. Or, you know, I can read those books that have been referenced, instead.

I would be careful of the number of references made. A couple add flavor, too many make the writer seem arrogant.