How to write a comic

drybonesreborn

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Is is possible to write a storyline for one, without graphics, and find somone to insert them?
 

Tallymark

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Yup, plenty of comics are written by one person, and drawn by someone else entirely (or possibly drawn by a team--a penciler, an inker, a colorist, etc.). Think of Neil Gaiman--he wrote the Sandman, but a slew of other people drew it. Same holds true of most major comic series today. Though, there are also excellent comics out there that are a one-man-show.

As you script it out though, I would recommend doing a couple of 'dummy pages' just for personal purposes, at least at the start--just so you get an idea of how much text realistically fits on a page (a lot less than you think!). Some comic writers also like to do little rough thumbnail doodles to map out possible layouts in their head (though of course, if the artist has a different vision, that's something you'll work out with them). But other than that, you just worry about the scripting, and let the artist worry about the art.

The real hard part is, of course, finding an artist.
 

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Yeah, usually one person writes it and the other draws. I was originally going to write and draw one myself, but never really found the time. But I'm getting ready to illustrate a short one for a friend here pretty soon, once he finishes writing it. I'm into drawing anime type stuff.
 

TsukiRyoko

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That's what I've been doing with a friend of mine who's a wonderful artist. I can't draw as well as I'd like, and he can, so I make the story line and dialogue and he does the pictures. It works out better than you'd think it would.
 

sunandshadow

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There are a lot more writers looking for artists to illustrate their work then there are artists volunteering to illustrate it though. I never found an artist willing to illustrate any of my scripts without payment. Some said they would, but then never actually did a single page of comic...
 
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TsukiRyoko

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There's a lot of people on deviantart.com who are usually willing to do commissions of some sort. I'm sure you could talk them into illustrating your work for a reasonable fee.I believe it makes sense to pay the illustrator- I know I'd want to be paid for my writing!
 

PeeDee

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The best way for a writer to get an artist is to approach them slowly and in a non-threatening manner and offer to buy them drinks.

Works every time.

I have a wonderful artist who's doing my cover art and interior illustrations for my serial novel episodes this summer. If we're not too busy, we'll do a one-off comic book too.

I think the real trick (while not necessary to the process) is to find an artist with whom you get along with, and who is on more or less the same frequency as you are. FOr one thing, it saves you from producing Alan Moore type scripts (I bet you can find one of his online; they are dictionaries of detail and information). If I say "and it's a big sloppy ogre," then I am pretty confident on what he's going to produce. Or at least comfortable with it.

If I were working with an artist on nothing but a commission basis, I think I'd not only be bored, but feel horribly awkward.

That said, working with an artist on comission can also be a decent way to make friends, something I'm always in favor of.
 

wordmonkey

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Dark Horse Comics' website used to have a sample PDF you could download on how to format a comic script as well. Might be of some use to you. There are some slight variations on how you can do it, but the Dark Horse example is a good place to start.
 

PeeDee

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The Dark Horse one is still findable, I bet.

In the back of "Dream Country" which is volume 3 (right?) of Neil Gaiman's Sandman volumes, he has the comic script for Caliope. That's worth a read.

Peter David has a book on how to write comics which I didn't find very helpful, but enjoyed reading immensely. He's wonderful when he gets cynical.

Alan Moore's comic scripts are these immense, detailed, heavy things that you could turn into a couple dozen college thesis papers with proper editing.
 

drybonesreborn

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The Dark Horse one is still findable, I bet.

In the back of "Dream Country" which is volume 3 (right?) of Neil Gaiman's Sandman volumes, he has the comic script for Caliope. That's worth a read.

Peter David has a book on how to write comics which I didn't find very helpful, but enjoyed reading immensely. He's wonderful when he gets cynical.

Alan Moore's comic scripts are these immense, detailed, heavy things that you could turn into a couple dozen college thesis papers with proper editing.
Really?
 

wordmonkey

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I assume that's in regard to Alan Moore's tomes.

He is legendary for his detailed scripts. I forget the artist, but I read an interview with a collaborator and he was talking about the amazing detail AM put in a description of a single panel, which supposedly included a reference to a potted flower. Seems he gave the entire life story of the flower. And the flower had nothing to do with the actual plot in any way, shape or form. I also seem to recall that he supposedly did an amazing amount of research for the FROM HELL GN, resulting in his theory for Jack the Ripper (as written in the book) being one deduced from the evidence he gleened from his research.

I make no claim that any of that is true, and to some degree, I think Alan Moore has built a nice little mythos around himself, of which this is part. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter.

Ultimately like any kind of writing, you develop your style. I like writing comic scripts, because it's like a movie script, but I have the power to dictate the look of a panel (where as when I write a movie script, I need to leave the visual element to the director). That said, for as detailed as I am, I always leave the artist room to bring their element and if they get into the groove, they are free to change a panel or page layout if what they have starts to work better.

Cutting to the chase (and I really shouldn't have answered this AFTER the whisky) you can be as detailed as you want, but like any kinda collaborative writing, you can't be precious.

Did that just muddy the waters further? Hope not.
 

PeeDee

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Alan Moore does kind of have a mythos built up around himself, but part of it is probably just the result of some of his works. He's a powerful writer. Things like Watchman are well known and have been spoken about more eloquently than I can manage here.

But there are works like Promethea which are also brilliant, and I still love his run on Swamp Thing. His batman story, The Killing Joke was not the best Batman story, nor the best Alan Moore story that I've ever read. It still wasn't bad.

I'm trying my hardest to remember where one or two of his scripts are available, and I'm failing miserably. He writes an astonishing amount of detail in, like wordmonkey said. That's not exaggerated.

I tend to write much, much less detail and much thinner (if you see what I mean by 'thinner') scripts because I have to keep the story moving in my own head, or I lose it. Writing a story in comic script mode is different than writing it with prose. So I write fast scripts.

but in my defense, when I'm working with an artist, he and I are usually on the same wavelength. If I write "hunchbacked vampire" (not that I've had cause to yet) I know what he's going to produce. It'll still surprise me, because it'll be unique to him, but it'll better describe what I meant than anything I'd said. If you follow me.

Play to your artist's strengths, too. It'll make you look good every time. If you're working with an artist who could draw a good, rough, vicious zombie book, then don't turn around and try to get him to draw Goodbye Chunky Rice. I bet he can do it, but he won't have as much fun, and neither will you.
 

wordmonkey

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Following PeeDee's advice, it also depends on how you are working with your artist.

If I'm running the gig, I like to get in with the artist before I even start properly writing the script. I know the general plot and the tone I wanna go with, so I chat with the artist and let him/her develop concepts. I MUCH prefer this way of working because EVERY time I do, they come up with little things, backgrounds, clothing, jewelry, etc., and it makes me think, "OK, what's that about?" Before long, the entire thing has become richer and more complex, and having those visuals, makes it easier for me to get into the script.

If I'm hack-for-hire, and I don't have the above luxury, I tend to be much more descriptive and detailed in the script because I want to make sure that the artist totally gets what I'm setting up.

The fractured nature of a script can be an issue, but the first thing I do is a set of 22 thumbnails for the book. I have a single sheet, template PDF file, (each page is the same dimensions as a standard US comicbook) that I print out. I then sit down and layout the pages and do little stick-men sketches for the book. Doing this I nail the flow of the book very quickly. From there I go and do the script. By breaking it down further, making it more disjointed, actually helps me sit down and flow through the actual writing part.

I never demand that an artist follow my layouts, but I know I'm not writing something impossible to fit in a page and I also get an immediate idea of whether I can fit a lot of dialog/bubbles on a page or not.

Anyone wants that PDF file can PM me. Might not work for you, but I couldn't do a script with out it.
 

PeeDee

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Wordmonkey, I wouldn't mind seeing your .PDF file. My e-mail should be available easily enough.

Neil Gaiman and others also use the thumbnail comic idea, and it's not a bad idea. I don't, because I don't see it in panels (except by necessity) I just see the scenes and the dialogue.


I tend to chat with the artist, but not in an "official" capacity. I'll gab about what I'm writing and how they might look, what things are like, but mostly I don't mind if the artist inputs his own general vision into the comic. The point of working with different artists, after all, is to have different styles. Not just different people drawing your style, yanno?
 

wordmonkey

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Wordmonkey, I wouldn't mind seeing your .PDF file. My e-mail should be available easily enough.

Check your email, dude. Sent.

Neil Gaiman and others also use the thumbnail comic idea, and it's not a bad idea. I don't, because I don't see it in panels (except by necessity) I just see the scenes and the dialogue.

For me, it's as much to make sure I keep on top of pacing and make sure that I don't make for page after page of the same nine panel, tree-by-three layout. Also allows me to duplicate a page layout exactly, if I want.

I tend to chat with the artist, but not in an "official" capacity. I'll gab about what I'm writing and how they might look, what things are like, but mostly I don't mind if the artist inputs his own general vision into the comic. The point of working with different artists, after all, is to have different styles. Not just different people drawing your style, yanno?

Given that thus far I've done horror, supers, humor and fantasy scripts, hopefully my style varies to suit the genre. But I take your point. The way I understand it, I tend to work in the DC method. Marvel is much looser where the writer says "OK, this page hasthis happening." and the artist then takes the page layout from there and does their thing, then it goes back to the writer to add the bubble-age. I actually do plan to try that with an artist, but we are both kinda busy at the moment.

Ultimately, what I was doing a bad job of conveying was that beyond a very basic format requirement, comics aren't as rigid as movie scripts. This is probably because very few publishers by a project based on the script alone, so as long as you can get the idea to an artist, THAT is ultimately what will sell the book - the art, not your words. Sad, but true.
 

PeeDee

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Ultimately, what I was doing a bad job of conveying was that beyond a very basic format requirement, comics aren't as rigid as movie scripts. This is probably because very few publishers by a project based on the script alone, so as long as you can get the idea to an artist, THAT is ultimately what will sell the book - the art, not your words. Sad, but true.

Oh, I don't know. That might be true for some of the books that Jim Lee does the art for (where the writing is...less than fantastic) but as fondly as I remember Charles Vess' artwork or Jill Thompson's artwork on Sandman, it's the story that hits me in the heart every time.

I don't think Marvel uses their "this sorta thing" happens approach much anymore. It fizzled more than a little when Joe Quesada stepped up to the plate. Although given the way things like Civil War worked, I bet that's still how they plan their "events..."
 

wordmonkey

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Oh, I don't know. That might be true for some of the books that Jim Lee does the art for (where the writing is...less than fantastic) but as fondly as I remember Charles Vess' artwork or Jill Thompson's artwork on Sandman, it's the story that hits me in the heart every time.

Ah, now I don't mean for a second that the writer is second in the ranks. Who gets first credit in the books? But since this thread started in what seemed to me to be someone trying to break in, the art is what sells a book. Always will.

However, what follows from that is very simple. Come for the art, stay for the writing.

If you pitch a project, the art is what will get the project picked up, and unless you are a Gaiman, Moore or Loeb, in the store, it's the cover and the flip through the book scanning the art that will make the reader buy. Your job as a writer is to make sure they buy the next issue.

Yeah, it sucks, but comics are a visual medium.
 
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PeeDee

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Yeah, it sucks, but comics are a visual medium.

I see what you mean now. Yeah, in the context you're talking about, the art is what sells it.

However, it doesn't 'suck' that comics are a visual medium. If it wasn't enjoyable, fun to write and fun to draw and fun to read, then we would all just issue monthly short stories and skip the whole process.

I like comics. There are things you can do in comics that you could never do in prose (and vice versa).
 

wordmonkey

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However, it doesn't 'suck' that comics are a visual medium. If it wasn't enjoyable, fun to write and fun to draw and fun to read, then we would all just issue monthly short stories and skip the whole process.

Again, me not being clear. It sucks that initially the writer doesn't come off as being a valuable player. If you're trying to break it, it is nigh impossible (unless you are coming from another medium) to get anyone to even look at your writing.

Go to a Con and see how many big names will sit at a booth and review artwork. Then see if you can get one, JUST one, to look over your scripts. Ain't gonna happen. THAT'S what sucks. And trying to get an artist to draw your pages in even more difficult.

I think, all things considered, trying to break into comic writing is probably one of, if not THE hardest way to get into writing as a career. Not least because common industry wisdom says that however you hear of someone breaking in, forget that route because the industry will seal that way in immediately.

But I agree, if you get in, it's frikkin' awesome!
 

PeeDee

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I agree, that it is damn rough. (And I knew you weren't saying "comics suck!" or anything, don't worry.)

It's also damn fun.

As for showing comic scripts to people, I almost never show it to anyone but the artist. If I submit to a publisher like Marvel or DC, I send them artwork and maybe some script too.

I think of the script less as being something i intend to sell (like a short story) and more like being an extensive post-it note to the artist.

I kind of like that the writing can take a backseat to the art, or a less-visible seat anyway. It's more subversive. Especially if you buy the book for the cool super-hero pictures, and then you read it and it breaks your heart.

(P.S., I realize I keep sounding like I'm arguing with you. I'm not. We're on the same page. I'm just musing and chattering.)
 

wordmonkey

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(P.S., I realize I keep sounding like I'm arguing with you. I'm not. We're on the same page. I'm just musing and chattering.)

S'OK, I get it. Much as anything I'm trying to make sure that I'm being clear for the folks who are trying to get a toe in the door.

Once you're in, it get s alittle easier, but it's still a constant effort to keep rolling and until you make a big break, you can never sit back.

But it is cool to be able to talk to someone who knows what you're talking about. My wife nods encouragingly, but you can tell she's ust waiting to get back to watching American Idol. And writers of other disciplines don't always get how THIS industry works.
 

PeeDee

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Although that sure doesn't stop them all from popping up and writing comics. I'm not sure when it happened, but comics went from being cool and slightly outlawed things to being the "it" thing to write. Everyone does a comic now. It's a little depressing.
 

AceTachyon

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Go to a Con and see how many big names will sit at a booth and review artwork. Then see if you can get one, JUST one, to look over your scripts. Ain't gonna happen. THAT'S what sucks. And trying to get an artist to draw your pages in even more difficult.
Well said.

Wrote a few sample scripts then decided it'd be better to write and draw an short story. Put together an ashcan, use that as a sampler, ya know?

But I think my artwork's got a long way to go and that's probably what'll hurt my chances. So the ashcan sits on my shelf and I spend my spare non-writing moments practicing my art.

But one of these days....