Champagne Book Group

Or perhaps a signal that it is time to severe the association from both ends.

As was just said so well, it is time to end the association from both ends.

Ellen has graciously agreed to return my book rights to me, and I in turn, have gained a better understanding for where the company is coming from. It looks as if we will be able to part ways amicably.

Also in their favor...apparently they are working to improve the controversial clause.

I am happy that attention was brought to this issue on the forum. I think it was a valuable discussion to have, and positive changes may have resulted.

Diana Green

Diana Green said:

Kerry,

I hear what you are saying, and I think you are mostly correct. I was very unhappy with Champagne Books, and I made that known. I can't be surprised at their response. It is to be expected.

At the time of my initial post, I had no idea what a storm would follow, but I made a conscious choice to voice concerns, and I stand by my actions.

I just didn't want any new and inexperienced authors stumbling into the CB contract without warning. Cautions from this forum and from Predators and Editors have been a true blessing for me. They've let me know what to watch out for, and I wanted to contribute a much needed 'heads up' to that resource.

Thank you for your well wishes. I do have another publisher, who I'm very happy with. Everything from editing, to scheduling, to communications with management has all been excellent. This contrast, no doubt, helped to strengthen my dissatisfaction with my CB experience. I want to work with publishers who are responsive, professional, and treat their authors respectfully.

I realize there are many authors at CB who feel the above describes Champagne Books. However, I have had a different, less rosy, experience. I hold no hard feelings, as I've learned some valuable lessons, and I can now fully appreciate my other publisher's approach.

Diana Green

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Diana,

I understand your issues with CB. I have had issues building up since I signed and one by one, my marketing plan was trashed due to publisher error and lack of communication. I sent in a detailed list of all issues, as a reminder that these posts on here were not me jumping the gun, but along with these posts- asked for my rights back due to everything. I can say, since 2012 pub date, I received my first royalty check yesterday and it was 35 bucks. I won't claim that I pushed the book nonstop, but I pushed well at first, even though a huge hold up in release really messed me up after promoting and attempting to schedule book sales, signings and public speaking events. Then after a bit of anger and hurt, I went on another long push to promote a dark fairy tale of warrior fairies and elves and blood and murder with huge pink font and little cute pixies on the cover- LOL. The communication is loop or nothing, and champagne or nothing.. Or Ellen turns into the Hulk.
It was certainly not the experience it appeared I was signing to obtain. The talks of reviews and networking and such... Laughable.
The social media comes in spurts. And bottom line, minimal communication feels so cold and unprofessional. We were supposed to use our editor as our point of contact and when mine was not at the CB Christmas party (which is supposed to be a good internet hype but is off on a site away from normal social media and usually only includes the authors and maybe a random friend/family member of the author) I asked where this editor was and found out she had been gone for a very long time. I was never notified nor assigned another contact and since the loop never worked well for me and was glitch after glitch, I guess I missed that and reaching out is only something CB does in fits or tantrums. Either way, I sent the request and did say I was willing to get a lawyer to obtain rights if need be. My books were pulled from market, I was blocked from the chat as well and no communication has come from them, even with a follow up email pointing out the immediate pull of books and blocking from chat and asking for some form of official communication involving rights. Either way, I found most of my favorite authors from the loops are on facebook and twitter so you won't lose communication with them. In fact, most of them are dedicated cross-promoters and when you can talk about things other than JUST CB, the cross-promoting goes very well!

ShellyScribes,

I completely relate to your experience with CB. It sounds very much like my own. Lots of things going awry and poor communication.

Good luck with getting your rights back. If they've pulled your books, it pretty much has to happen.

Interestingly, you're the third author I know of who has requested their rights be returned. Perhaps CB will start to get the message.

Thanks for the info about other CB authors on facebook. I'll definitely check that out.

Best wishes for better publishing experiences in the future.

Diana Green

I think you need to ask the mods what the proper procedure is to post stuff that is not your own property, or involves another entity....

Mac is tired of threatening lawsuits I am sure...

Yeah, no. Don’t post directly. Mac doesn't need the hassle, and neither do you nor your friend. Send the details in private to Writer Beware and Preditors & Editors, where it can become part of the information pool but not made public.

One of my criteria for seriously avoiding a publisher, editor or writers group: the second I hear about them threatening unwarranted legal action against critics. That is often a strong indication there have been previous problems/complaints with that company.

My book, Bad Ice, is coming up on its sixth birthday with Champagne Books on Canada Day (tomorrow). Sales were not any different (perhaps even better) than with the three publishers I've had with my other two books. I'm not a big marketer, I only put myself out there on Twitter, Facebook, Blog and website. I don't holler, "Buy my book!" to all corners of the earth. I had one book signing with Chapters, supplying my own copies with my author discount.

After the flood last year, the Champagne website had rebuilding issues. I waited patiently for my book to reappear. As of about a couple months ago, I still didn't have a buy link, and my name was not on the site. I emailed Ellen about it, and she said they were working backwards from most recent releases to get all the books back on the site.

I waited some more. I almost got to the point of asking for my rights back, and hopped on here to see how things were going.

Lo and behold, my name and link are back on their website. Whew.

That contract clause is troubling, but I don't recall receiving the email in question. It might be somewhere, but it will take a search. I hope the publisher and authors reach a suitable agreement.

Even so, I don't plan to submit anything in the future to Champagne, or any other ebook-only publisher. I'm moving on and trying to get an agent with my next book.

For the time being, Bad Ice will remain where it is, until I decide what to do with it.

For what it's worth, I've seen an uptick of sorts in attempts at promotion from "flash" sales to alerting authors of other opportunities (such as the up and coming Long And Short Reviews blog anniversary bash).

It took a few weeks but all my books were finally up on the new site. My sales have also been disappointing, but I can't point fingers at a small publisher as much as the deluge of choices pouring into Amazon and such every month. Few readers, I suspect, even know that the CB site exists. Getting hard to jump up and be seen no matter who you're with these days. Certainly can't make a living off this stuff.

I had no strong-arm tactics on the last contract, and after seeing some of the draconian clauses being pushed forward by other e-pubs, I think every author needs to have their guard up. But hey, nothing's non-negotiable. You can always walk.

Publisher did send me extra download cards (you can sell e-books this way) to compensate for an anticipated reduction in the online price of the novels after I'd already paid for the cards. They didn't have to do that, but they did. All of my older covers were redone as well to good effect, and I had input in the design as well.

Politics? Sure. Welcome to the world of small publishers. You kinda put them on like clothes. Sometimes they fit, and sometimes not.

Hope you can find that agent, C.

Kerry

Back in September, I got a partial request that led to a full request in less than a month. It took about four or five weeks to get the rejection, but the acquiring editor gave me some personal feedback with it, which meant she read through to the end.

Now, I didn't agree with the feedback because it went contrary to genre (pull space battles out of a space opera), but the fact that she took the time to give me the notes meant a lot.

Just some more info to expand the knowledge in this thread.

gilesth said:

Back in September, I got a partial request that led to a full request in less than a month. It took about four or five weeks to get the rejection, but the acquiring editor gave me some personal feedback with it, which meant she read through to the end.

Now, I didn't agree with the feedback because it went contrary to genre (pull space battles out of a space opera), but the fact that she took the time to give me the notes meant a lot.

Just some more info to expand the knowledge in this thread.

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My bolding. What? See, this is one reason I worry about sending crossover fiction to e-rom publishers who might not have a good understanding of the non-romance part of the crossover. Advice like this is a book-killer.

There are erotic romance publishers who make great efforts to weave genres together. And a great online group called 'The Science Fiction Romance Brigade', whose authors have blazed trails.

But I wouldn't bother to query an editor from a publisher who wasn't savvy to the other genres.

Filigree said:

My bolding. What? See, this is one reason I worry about sending crossover fiction to e-rom publishers who might not have a good understanding of the non-romance part of the crossover. Advice like this is a book-killer.

There are erotic romance publishers who make great efforts to weave genres together. And a great online group called 'The Science Fiction Romance Brigade', whose authors have blazed trails.

But I wouldn't bother to query an editor from a publisher who wasn't savvy to the other genres.

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I get the impression that they were interested in it as a YA or NA Sci-Fi (though I expect they would've wanted me to make it NA because another friend of mine was told they weren't acquiring YA at the time). The romance in my book is a sub-sub plot. But a romance house doesn't seem like the right fit for a YA Space Opera.

In the end, I'm actually glad they rejected it. Based on the rest of their list, the sci-fi covers (shallow, but the bad CG images put me off), and this thread, I probably would've declined any offer they made. And I hate saying no. It always makes me feel guilty.

This kinda sounds like First Refusal re-written to maximum publisher benefit (or creatively twisted), and I can understand the publisher's concerns about investing in an author and having them jump ship with a similar, or very similar work. That clause needs to be re-defined. Personally, my genre writing is all over the map and no book is ever alike, and there's about nine of them. I don't write sequels because I hate having them rejected and that's actually happened to me. So, there's no problem in that regard.

My first concern is that they read my full (I'm pretty sure) and then emailed me to ask what my promotion plan was for the book. I know this is happening a lot more with small presses because they don't have the means or financial investment to promote or market with any substantial resources. However, I'd still like to know what they can do for my book. I can't abide a publisher who kicks back and lets all of its authors wear the selling shoes. My shoe leather has been worn out before with several publishers. I'm not saying they work this way, but I'd like to know if they have some clout and can give a book some good and individual attention in the marketplace.

MY BIGGEST QUESTION: Will this publisher tolerate my agent representing me and negotiating the contract terms? Nobody has addressed this.

I'm seeing more and more publishers who are gun shy of agents and flatly refuse to work with them. My agent got me an outstanding deal with my last small press publisher. And I do mean outstanding.

Do any of you know of any agents that have worked with this publisher?

Tri

ETA: after careful reading I did find that agents are welcomed and that Cassie is the contact person for such. But I still don't know if any agent has breached their virtual door.

triceretops said:

ETA: after careful reading I did find that agents are welcomed and that Cassie is the contact person for such. But I still don't know if any agent has breached their virtual door.

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They've said in the past that they've accepted agent represented works. Chats I've had with staff indicate as much. I wouldn't know why they wouldn't deal with agents.

Oh, and they do promote about the same as most small publishers - in the case of SF/F I know they have a presence at several Canadian conventions. Fully involved in the EPIC writing guild as well (met owner just last week in San Antonio at EPIC convention). They've their own blog and a list of reviewers (though it seems sparse for SF/F). That said, they've always asked for a promotion plan since their inception. I don't think anyone with a small press can afford to just sit back after the book's out the door. I know I can't. Especially in today's flooded market.

Been with them for eight years, so mind the bias (grin).

Kerry

Thanks for your comments, KM. It's looks like they've been around for almost 10 years? They've GOT to have some type of presence in the literary community. I would think and hope.

tri

triceretops said:

Thanks for your comments, KM. It's looks like they've been around for almost 10 years? They've GOT to have some type of presence in the literary community. I would think and hope.

tri

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Hi Tri!

Sorry I haven't been on sooner to reply. Yes, we absolutely do have a literary community presence. I won't say we have "big" name attention yet but we do regularly get some lovely submissions from agents like Parkeast Literary Agency, Loiacono Literary Agency and The Rosenberg Group (I took the liberty and linked to the posts on AW on these agencies--save you all some legwork <grin>). A couple of the authors we've taken on from these agencies have been terrific and I love their stories.

While we now consider, after a serious review last year, we have a author and publisher friendly contract, we will negotiate with decisions based on things like author presence (previously published, multi-published) and the request. For example, since we are primarily digital focused and POD print (at 100 digital sales), requests around print are not always granted but that's business.

However, we are open to negotiations, and I actually wish more authors, especially those multi-published, would negotiate but few do. It is often harder for a new author to change terms since there is no history but not impossible. And that is often where an agent can be of assistance.

Additionally, we are invited to various conferences. In fact, in June, I'm attending the Historical Novel Society Conference in Denver along with industry powerhouses.

A long reply to say, yes, we absolutely work with agents and enjoy doing so.

If I can answer anything else, feel free to email me at [email protected] or post here and I'll do my best.

Best,
Cassie

Well, they got a hold of me and asked if I was still interested. They seemed a bit peeved. So I told them to send the contract to my agent, and not me. I'm pretty sure they did. After reading this thread, I have the willies. They have been in business for what, 10 years or so? That might say something. Yet, if they're weak on the marketing end, the book will surely take a nose dive from which it might not recover.

Good for you Tri. Hope it works out...

I asked for my rights to be returned back in February for Bad Ice, and got a brief reply that a letter should follow shortly. I sent a reminder today. Last week, I had received (probably my last) quarterly payment of approximately four dollars. Ellen and I had a convivial relationship, and I wish her the best. Bad Ice had some good moments, but it's time to move on.

ETA: I received a cordial letter saying I should have received my letter by now, but she attached a copy for me. So... onward we go.

Any updates lately? I just received a full request and wanted to know if there was any new news on this publisher.

Thanks!

They're alive and well. Have a book coming out presumably next month with them. The publisher's ownership did change hands recently, but it was within their staff. Now operates out of Oregon City, Oregon instead of Canada. More a case of previous owner wanting to get back to writing full time me-thinks. They've made some good changes in regards to costs to authors to order paperback books. Have a marketing meeting every few weeks with authors via Skype. Still, the small press has the same struggles to be seen, especially considering Amazon's algorithms.

Kerry (aka KM Tolan)

Hi Kerry,

I see it's been a few months since your book came out with these guys. Are you still happy with the experience?


Thank you!

I haven't dealt with them but know some authors who have. They say sales are horrible. I just checked the site and they are closed for submissions until November. It's never a good sign when pubs start closing to submissions.

ETA: It used to be a Canadian publisher now is in the states.

Sometimes it's good when publishers close for submissions. It gives them a chance to get on top of scheduling and the slushpile.

I've never been that impressed with Champagne's general sales ranks on Amazon, and some of their cover art frankly scared me. But YMMV, as they say.

Filigree said:

Sometimes it's good when publishers close for submissions. It gives them a chance to get on top of scheduling and the slushpile.

I've never been that impressed with Champagne's general sales ranks on Amazon, and some of their cover art frankly scared me. But YMMV, as they say.

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I agree on that cover art but didn't wanna mention it. LOL!

I have very few filters left, alas.