Is this (hist. rom.) hero too flawed to work?

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Faye DC

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I would like to collect your thoughts on the following premise before I invest too much time into it.

One of my current WIPs is about the consequences of a wealthy family in Victorian England losing their fortune. I'm currently writing about the eldest brother in the family, and I want to write a series that would include a novel about the youngest brother, but I fear that his story might be totally unmarketable. When he is introduced as a background character in book one, he is an alcoholic, and also uses gambling and sex as a crutch to escape his problems.

I've seen lots of historical romances where the hero is searching for redemption after a troubled past or is a total rake, but these are usually stories where the hero has already more or less renounced his past ways by the time the book starts or is "cured by the love of a good woman" the instant he meets the heroine. We usually don't see philandering or substance abuse past the prologue.

In my outline, the hero and heroine--a maidservant--have an ongoing sexual relationship at the opening of the novel (she is convinced he loves her and will marry her one day, Cinderella-style, he is just doing whatever comes easily to him), but by chapter two or three she realizes that he's been stringing her along and confronts him, and is fired when their indiscretion becomes known. They meet again shortly after when he has basically hit rock bottom and is completely destitute, and she reluctantly helps him find a place to stay and sober up because she still has feelings for him, although she makes it clear that their romantic relationship is over. Her story arc is about becoming less naive and learning not to let men take advantage of her, his is about gaining self-awareness and struggling to change his life. Once he gets cleaned up he realizes that he didn't know what a good thing he had, but they have to overcome the total loss of trust caused by his past behaviour.

Is this something that you think readers would have any interest in? Could you stick with characters that are pretty hopeless in the first couple chapters to see where it's going, or would you just throw the book at the wall in frustration as soon as you saw that the hero was a dog and the heroine didn't realize it?
 

Marian Perera

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Could you stick with characters that are pretty hopeless in the first couple chapters to see where it's going, or would you just throw the book at the wall in frustration as soon as you saw that the hero was a dog and the heroine didn't realize it?

It depends on what you mean by "pretty hopeless", IMO.

For instance, does the hero treat the heroine well other than the issue of marriage? Does he please her in bed, or give her a gift every now and then (maybe when he's gambled and won)? If so, yeah, I can see why she'd stay with him. If he's a complete jerk to her, that's different.

He can certainly be an alcoholic gambler, but he needs some redeeming quality, in other words. Likewise, the heroine needs some reason for staying with him through the first couple of chapters other than her hopes of marriage. I don't mind if she doesn't see that he's a dog, but there's got to be a good reason for this. Especially since servants talk, and I imagine a woman from that stratum of society would be less sheltered than someone more gently born.

Hope this helps!
 
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Karalynn

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I'd read it -- I especially like how they each have an individual journey to achieve -- but as mentioned, I'd have to see something worth pursuing in each of the characters from the start. At least something sweeping and passionate about the affair, even if they have very different perceptions about its meaning.

And I feel like I've seen many a rake forgiven as long as he's witty and charming, so hopefully there is something entertaining about him.
 

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I want to write a series that would include a novel about the youngest brother, but I fear that his story might be totally unmarketable. When he is introduced as a background character in book one, he is an alcoholic, and also uses gambling and sex as a crutch to escape his problems.

As background on this, you might read Mary Jo Putney's The Rake and Judith Ivory's Bliss.
 

gothicangel

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Faye, I recommend posting this question in the HF sub-forum. The guys there can tell you more about the conventions in historical writing (I don't know myself, as I read little Historical Romance.)
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

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I want to write a series that would include a novel about the youngest brother, but I fear that his story might be totally unmarketable. When he is introduced as a background character in book one, he is an alcoholic, and also uses gambling and sex as a crutch to escape his problems.

Not seeing a problem so far... stories of redemption need an MC with flaws to be redeemed.

I've seen lots of historical romances where the hero is searching for redemption after a troubled past or is a total rake, but these are usually stories where the hero has already more or less renounced his past ways by the time the book starts or is "cured by the love of a good woman" the instant he meets the heroine. We usually don't see philandering or substance abuse past the prologue.

I disagree. I'm coming up blank on examples, as my brain doesn't appear to have come to work with me today, but I'm sure I've read countless novels where the hero continues his flawed behaviour well into the story. If the main story arc is redemption, it can't happen by the end of the prologue or it would be a very short story!

In my outline, the hero and heroine--a maidservant--have an ongoing sexual relationship at the opening of the novel (she is convinced he loves her and will marry her one day, Cinderella-style, he is just doing whatever comes easily to him), but by chapter two or three she realizes that he's been stringing her along and confronts him, and is fired when their indiscretion becomes known.

This is a good set up, IMO. Lots of romances start with the MC being less than a perfect romantic hero and making a rakish mistake that he will come to rue throughout the course of the novel.

I read a romance novel like this very recently actually - sea captain charged with taking a nobleman's daughter to relatives in the new world, breaks the covenant with her father by taking advantage of her naivety and stealing her virtue in a most selfish manner. She leaves the ship cursing his name, and he spends the next few years adventuring and debauching to distract himself from his guilt and longing. When he meets her again years later, he is still a philanderer, and in fact soon starts boffing her cousin because... well, she's up for it and he can't have who he really wants. It's at least halfway into the novel before his true love admits her feelings and forgives his past transgressions, and he cleans up his act.

Her story arc is about becoming less naive and learning not to let men take advantage of her, his is about gaining self-awareness and struggling to change his life. Once he gets cleaned up he realizes that he didn't know what a good thing he had, but they have to overcome the total loss of trust caused by his past behaviour.

This sounds like a pretty common romance trope to be honest. That's not meant as disparagement, it just means it's tried and tested, so no, i don't see a problem with this story idea.

Is this something that you think readers would have any interest in? Could you stick with characters that are pretty hopeless in the first couple chapters to see where it's going, or would you just throw the book at the wall in frustration as soon as you saw that the hero was a dog and the heroine didn't realize it?

If he treated her like a dog and she still loved him, I would probably groan very loudly, but if you gave me enough glimmer of hope for her, I'd keep reading to see how she changes into a stronger person.
 
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chompers

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There are lots of women who stay with a man even though he treats her badly, because she's hoping he'll change. I can see happening as you've described.
 

lise8

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I like the premise of your story, and indeed many a character starts as very flawed as a beginning to their journey. The key is in the learning and the change.

AS for what others have said, yes, some women stay devoted to men who mistreat them, but I think that in here there is room to develop a little more reason for her to be so. My first inkling is that he might very much like her/ something about her, and compliments her frequently about it (it could be an aspect of beauty, the ring of her laughter... what ever that he finds endearing, enough for her to feel valued by him and believe in possible romance, but for him to see as just something he likes about that particular woman without the woman herself being meaningful to him. In other word, he could be nice yet completely misleading in his intentions. He could also be more calculating and a fraud and pretend love to get the easy sex,w which would make him darker and yet still redeemable.
It all depends how evil you want him to be at the start.

If they are both the share the limelight, make sure that both have something going for them in the eyes of the reader, even if it is just that the youngest son's self-esteem is down in the pit because his family has only eyes for the elder, and that can pass as a stupid reason for his less than gentlemanly behaviour towards the servant. The reader can feel disappointment towards the character, but maybe not disgust.

all the best with your project.
 

lise8

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I've been thinking about your post, so I'm adding my thoughts. Maybe the servant - gentleman thing has been a bit overdone. Maybe your heroine could be a gentleman's daughter whose family fortunes have gone awry and is therefore a governess / lady in waiting or something like that. It would change the dynamics a little, go a bit more against the norm and make her aspiration of marriage more logical. After all, it's not only servants who can get talked into sexual relationships out of matrimony, I am sure that a young lady could equally have her desires taken for a spin. I just think that it would make it more Jane Austen-like in spirit...

Just a thought that crossed my mind, take it or leave it ;-).
once again, all the best!
 

HannahWing

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I would probably read this. I would be even more likely to read it if it were about her getting revenge on him, forcing him to hit rock bottom and then maybe taking him back once he had apologized and realized the hurt that he caused her.

But your version is also good. It seems like there's a lot of depth to the characters in the story.

I find it interesting that you are planning to do this is a historical romance. Is there any reason why you chose that setting over, I dunno, Chicago in 1980?
 

She_wulf

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It has great internal conflict potential.

For instance, the nobleman could hate his lifestyle because he can't/being forced to not work therefore he's wasting through his allowance to prove a stupid point. (his external demons) He secretly admires the strength of the working class and begins the affair with the girl because he admires her.

He becomes addicted to the lifestyle perks which causes him to finally lose his inheritance and forcing him into trade. (external force/negative force) This is where he cleans up his act. (internal catalyst which is in opposition to the force) He's still an addict and is being influenced by someone or thing outside to stray off his straight and narrow. (external conflict)

I would say that you don't want her to "save" him, he has to start down the path himself. She's just extra support when he backslides or goes through a particularly rough spot.

Now her side of the story... she can't marry the gentleman because "it's just not done" (external force) yet she wants him anyway because he has qualities she admires. After being rejected/leaving in disgrace she's going to be not as naive. (more internal conflict...yeah!) There needs to be a circumstance to bring them together and force them to have to deal with each other so there isn't a moment for the reader when they go, "why on earth is she/he still whipping that dead horse?" (external forces for good)

Watts story arc
Stasis - he's having an affair with the maid and drinking himself stupid. she's encouraging him. (she's supportive and thinks he is salvation)
Trigger - she's found out and forced to leave
The quest - she has to find alternative employment
Surprise - man has lost inheritance and needs work (maybe from her or her family)
Critical choice - let him in, demons and all?
Climax - factors from his past threaten their relationship rebuild
Reversal - he's encouraging and supportive of her and she's his salvation
Resolution - and they live happily ever after...

:)
 
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