Deceiving the heroine

Marian Perera · Oct 2, 2013

So I had an idea just now. Let me know if you'd be interested in reading this.

The hero goes to a brothel to collect taxes. The madam isn't happy about this because quite a few of the girls have been sick (thanks to the flu) and have been sent away to recover, but she pays up. She also offers him the hospitality of the house, but he declines - not just because it would be unethical but because he's a romantic under the meticulous, analytical exterior.

He goes downstairs with the check and sees a woman in the common-room. And he's wildly attracted to her at once.

The woman is beautiful, but she's badly scarred, which is one reason she's decided to visit a whorehouse. She's also a foreigner, so she's not as aware of local customs, and she asks him if he works there. He puts two and two together and says yes, yes, he does. Would she care for some company? He already knows some of the rooms on the upper floor are empty.

She agrees and they go upstairs (with him wondering what the hell he's doing, but growing even more aroused as he tries to find out more about her). Of course, she discovers the truth at the end of the encounter. Would it be a problem for you as a reader, though, that he got intimate with her under false pretenses?

Storycrowd · Oct 2, 2013

Well, if we're talking erotica...as a male reader, at least, it isn't a problem for me.

In reading this over, my concerns are just that it seems a little vague / maybe overcomplicated to me. Especially around the love-interest. You say she's "beautiful but scarred". Are we talking emotionally scarred, or physically? Either can be done I suppose, but "beautiful but scarred" does seem a bit contradictory. Also, she's a foreigner. Okay...I guess overall I don't quite understand what she's doing there, in the whorehouse common room, anyways.

I think he is painted well and I really like the romantic vs. analytical that you've set up very easily here. That's well done. If you can just make his desire to go to bed with her immediately less about false pretense and more about the romance inside him bursting out, I think it sounds like their sex will be great (and a great read), haha.

Best luck!

Marian Perera · Oct 2, 2013

Storycrowd said:
You say she's "beautiful but scarred". Are we talking emotionally scarred, or physically? Either can be done I suppose, but "beautiful but scarred" does seem a bit contradictory.

One side of her face is lovely... the other side, not so much. As a result of her past, she would prefer to get her needs met by a professional rather than risk getting hurt emotionally, so she goes to the brothel.

I think he is painted well and I really like the romantic vs. analytical that you've set up very easily here. That's well done. If you can just make his desire to go to bed with her immediately less about false pretense and more about the romance inside him bursting out, I think it sounds like their sex will be great (and a great read), haha.

Yes, that's what I'd like to convey - that here's this calm, methodical, controlled man who's always wanted a passionate romance but has never felt such a lightning-spark with a woman before. I'll be working on it, and thanks very much for your feedback!

Storycrowd · Oct 2, 2013

OH, that's why she's at the brothel! I mean, that makes a lot of sense...at the same time, do most brothels serve both men and women? I mean, I think you could pull it off easily enough, but you'd have to make this brothel's "special" nature a bit obvious, is all.

I guess I'll also want to know how he feels that lightning-spark for this half-disfigured woman. Again, I think you can pull it off, but, being a man, I'm not quite sure this is how we work. So, again, you'll have to convince me there.

But, if you can convince me on those two points, I think, as I said, it'll be a lot of fun.

Marian Perera · Oct 2, 2013

Storycrowd said:
OH, that's why she's at the brothel! I mean, that makes a lot of sense...at the same time, do most brothels serve both men and women?

In her land, they do as a matter of course - why turn away half your prospective clients?

In his land, no.

I guess I'll also want to know how he feels that lightning-spark for this half-disfigured woman.

Well, she's also half-gorgeous. Maybe he's the kind of guy for whom the glass is half full.

On a more serious note, though, she's got a great body, she's the kind who can take care of herself under any circumstances, and in a land based on Victorian England, she's wearing trousers and carrying a sabre. He's intrigued. He doesn't see someone like her every day.

Again, I think you can pull it off, but, being a man, I'm not quite sure this is how we work.

This part concerns me a little, though - are you saying it's unlikely that a man would feel insta-lust under these circumstances?

But, if you can convince me on those two points, I think, as I said, it'll be a lot of fun.

Much appreciate the encouragement and feedback!

Storycrowd · Oct 2, 2013

Queen of Swords said:
This part concerns me a little, though - are you saying it's unlikely that a man would feel insta-lust under these circumstances?

Well, I don't really want to speak for my entire gender...nor do I want to get into the hot water of being a typical male jerk! Lol.

I mean, I'm just not sure a "hot bod" gets us past a half-scarred face. I mean, maybe he's that nice a guy under his cool exterior. But typically, I don't think the average guy is going for insta-lust for a half-scarred face. Certainly half-scarred face does not preclude love, but it might preclude insta-lust.

So, as a reader, I'd just need to be coaxed into believing the "why" of his insta-lust. I don't think the physical attributes you've described, alone, would get me, as a reader, there. So...maybe there's something in his past that explains his reaction to her, esp. how he can look past the scars? Or maybe it's just the fact that she's there, and seems so out of place to him, that intrigues him? Like, maybe he sees all these perfectly beautiful women at the brothel...which, possibly before, he was sort of disgusted by...but now, at the sight of her, he is intrigued, and in his intrigue he realizes that the rest of her is PERFECT, and it's partially this fact that she's imperfect, in this sort of fake-perfect place he's collecting the taxes at, that makes her so intriguing to him? And that probably makes him seem a more sympathetic character, too.

I'm sorry if I'm sort of writing your story for you here, definitely don't mean to do that. Just offering some ideas on how his reaction might be more believable.

amrose · Oct 2, 2013

I don't have a problem with it. I think the resulting conflict of her finding out about him not being one of the employees would be interesting and very emotional.

Marian Perera · Oct 2, 2013

Storycrowd said:
But typically, I don't think the average guy is going for insta-lust for a half-scarred face.

Oh, I see what you mean.

I was thinking that he'd see her in profile at first - maybe she's looking at a painting on the wall, or out of a window - so what he first notices is how lovely she looks, at least from one side. She doesn't see him at first, so he can notice her figure and admire a few other things about her as well (how exotic and yet businesslike and capable she looks in a place that's all frills and flowers).

Then she turns around. But after the surprise of her scars fades, maybe while the two of them are talking, his attraction takes over again. As you've said, even though she's not perfectly beautiful like the women working there, there's a depth and a reality to her that makes him intrigued.

I'm sorry if I'm sort of writing your story for you here, definitely don't mean to do that. Just offering some ideas on how his reaction might be more believable.

No, you're being very helpful, especially since I like finding out about a man's perspective.

In all my romantic or romantic-element manuscripts prior to this one, the hero's attraction to the heroine grew steadily while he tried to hide it. Now that I wanted to do something quite different - obvious, very strong attraction at the start - I had to be sure I was on the right track. Thanks again.

Marian Perera · Oct 2, 2013

amrose said:
I think the resulting conflict of her finding out about him not being one of the employees would be interesting and very emotional.

Thanks. I'm imagining her drawing her saber at once, though he finds a well-pleasured naked woman with a sword even more sexy. Which annoys her even more.

teeta6404 · Oct 2, 2013

I think it really does sound interesting. I would read it.

ebbrown · Oct 2, 2013

I want to read it. Can you hurry up and write it already?

Filigree · Oct 2, 2013

Me, too. This is different enough that I'm hooked by the premise alone.

Marian Perera · Oct 2, 2013

Hooray! Very happy to hear that, guys.

Now all I need to do is come up with a reason for the two of them to have to work together, given that she's the captain of a ship (and what I had in mind would have been the first chapter of the novel).

Maybe I could make him a health inspector instead, and the ship suspected of carrying plague. The madam of the brothel would be just as delighted to see him if he was there to check that her girls weren't syphilitic.

Katallina · Oct 3, 2013

This sounds very interesting! I'd definitely be intrigued enough by the premise to check it out.

As for his attraction to her, I think that the idea of him seeing her 'flawlessly' first and then discovering her scarring when she turns to face to him while speaking (or something) would work. The conversation would give him enough time to figure through his initial reaction (while trying not to appear an ass in the process, thereby creating a certain level of tension) and then as the plot moves forward it is something that could continue to be dealt with. (Even if he is cool with them by the end of ch. 1, the fact that she's there tells me she's *not*.)

Also, beginning attraction can be strong and still continue to grow (especially on deeper, more emotional levels) as the story continues. It's cool you want him to have that initial jolt of "Wow!", and I think it would be needed to make this idea work. Having that shadowed (by the reader, not necessarily by your hero--even if scars are acceptable in this fantasy world they (alas) aren't in ours.)

I have a large scar on my right leg and several oddly curved fingers. On a day to day basis I don't even think about that stuff. I wear shorts and t-shirts in the summer. I love clunky jewelry and bright sparkly nail polish. But when people first meet me I usually *do* get asked about my fingers and the other day my boyfriend (long distance) mentioned, in relation to a story I am working on, that he did finally "see" my leg's scar during this visit. (He visited during warm weather and hadn't noticed it until a day I wore shorts.) Despite the fact that I know things are fine with us, I also know I felt *weird!* discussing it.

My point is that, in some ways, your heroine likely does lead a double life. She can probably (guessing) use that saber like nobody's business, but as you've already explained to us, she wants to get her needs met by a professional and has clearly been hurt before.

You have some very interesting story elements to play with here and I think they could lead to a very interesting and unique read. Best of luck with your writing.

Captcha · Oct 3, 2013

I seem to be a minority, but it would bug me quite a bit.

I think true consent has to be informed consent. By deliberately deceiving her, he's taking away her ability to consent.

I don't really see a way around this. I mean, why didn't he tell her he wasn't a prostitute? Presumably, he believed that she only wanted to have sex with a prostitute, and therefore would not have sex with him if he wasn't. So he lied, in order to get her to sleep with him. Yeah, I've got a problem with that.

I think the water gets a bit muddy because prostitution is a 'low-status' profession. But I don't think that matters, as far as consent goes. A guy who tells girls he's a Navy SEAL or a heart surgeon or a rock star in order to get laid is sleazy at best, a rapist at worst. I don't think this is different just because your guy is lying to make himself lower status, given that he knows the woman is seeking a lower-status man.

Guys who lie about themselves in order to get laid are assholes. Your guy has lied about himself in order to get laid. Therefore... asshole.

I think I'm more sensitive about this than a lot of people. I have a LOT of trouble reading a lot of romance because of consent issues (not just about sex, but about pretty much ANY time time the man 'knows what's best' for the woman, or any other paternalistic bullshit). So this might not be a problem for your MS, but it would definitely be a problem for me.

Katallina · Oct 3, 2013

@ Captcha: While I don't share all your feelings here (I'm interested in the story) I certainly feel there would need to be story consequences and that this deception would need to be an issue the characters would have to work through. It's certainly not a 'nice' thing, though I'm not sure I'd classify it as rape. (Is every person who tells you they love you that you sleep with, whom then you eventually break up with, a rapist? I think not. Though perhaps I'm still kinda missing your point?) It could also be that I'm more forgiving since this is fiction than I would be if this happened to me (or a friend) in real life. I cannot be sure.

You have certainly brought an interesting POV to the conversation, though.

Marian Perera · Oct 3, 2013

Captcha said:
So he lied, in order to get her to sleep with him. Yeah, I've got a problem with that.

I think she's going to have a problem with it as well.

He does give her a very good time - because he sees her as an unusual, intriguing and attractive person rather than as a client. He's not jaded by the job, in other words. But again, a human vibrator is what she was originally looking for, even if she ended up enjoying what she got instead.

There are some romances which manage to pull off the deception trick (the most recent one I've read was Lisa Kleypas's Stranger In My Arms). I'll try to do likewise.

I think I'm more sensitive about this than a lot of people. I have a LOT of trouble reading a lot of romance because of consent issues (not just about sex, but about pretty much ANY time time the man 'knows what's best' for the woman, or any other paternalistic bullshit). So this might not be a problem for your MS, but it would definitely be a problem for me.

Thanks for the feedback - it's good to hear a dissenting opinion, and that's exactly why I posted about this scenario.

I think another way for me to make this work is to show that his culture is at least somewhat paternalistic (hers isn't). Not that he feels he needs to decide her life for her, but more like, damn, a woman like her shouldn't need to resort to this kind of thing when there's a man eager to pleasure her. Something along those lines.

Marian Perera · Oct 3, 2013

Katallina said:
Even if he is cool with them by the end of ch. 1, the fact that she's there tells me she's *not*.

You're right. I'm still thinking this through, so I'm not certain how she got such noticeable scars, but I do know she isn't completely innocent in that matter. As in, she isn't a wonderful person who never hurt a fly and was quietly minding her own business when some bastard threw acid at her.

Which means she's going to have some even more interesting emotional scars...

But when people first meet me I usually *do* get asked about my fingers

Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure the people don't mean to be hurtful or rude, but even if they say nothing they're probably at least a little curious.

You have some very interesting story elements to play with here and I think they could lead to a very interesting and unique read. Best of luck with your writing.

Thank you very much.

I'm looking forward to starting this.

Captcha · Oct 3, 2013

Katallina said:
@ Captcha: While I don't share all your feelings here (I'm interested in the story) I certainly feel there would need to be story consequences and that this deception would need to be an issue the characters would have to work through. It's certainly not a 'nice' thing, though I'm not sure I'd classify it as rape. (Is every person who tells you they love you that you sleep with, whom then you eventually break up with, a rapist? I think not. Though perhaps I'm still kinda missing your point?) It could also be that I'm more forgiving since this is fiction than I would be if this happened to me (or a friend) in real life. I cannot be sure.

You have certainly brought an interesting POV to the conversation, though.

The "rapist" part is definitely a stretch, but I don't think it's COMPLETELY insane. It's based on the idea of true consent, obviously. Some people think that a sober person having sex with a drunk person is rape, even if the drunk person didn't resist, because the drunk person couldn't truly consent b/c of intoxication. Some people think that having sex with a mentally challenged person is rape, even if the mentally challenged person seemed to be interested, because the mentally challenged person couldn't truly consent b/c s/he didn't truly understand the nature of the actions. I'd see this as being a similar situation... the woman would know she was having sex, but she hadn't consented to sex under these circumstances...

But, no I wouldn't likely call it that, myself. I'd just call it sleazy.

Side note: I recently decided not to finish reading a fairly popular romance novel in which the 'hero' is a reclusive billionaire who arranges to have the heroine detained by immigration (in China, a country not exactly known for its stellar human rights record) so he could be locked up with her and make contact. After they fooled around in the immigration lockup he arranged for her to be moved to a luxury suite at her hotel and had a weekend of sex with her. He never told her who he was, despite the fact that he knew she'd been sent to the country to do a story on him. He then refused to do the interview with her because he'd slept with her, despite the fact that she hadn't known who he was at the time, and ... and somehow, the author twisted it around so that he was a victim after she published a less-than-flattering photo of him. I was aghast! The novel's only got 11 reviews on Goodreads, but it's average is 4.33, and I'm the only person so far who seems to really object to it! So, yes, I think I'm extra sensitive. But that doesn't mean I think I'm wrong!

Marian Perera · Oct 3, 2013

Captcha said:
I'd see this as being a similar situation... the woman would know she was having sex, but she hadn't consented to sex under these circumstances...

She'd see it the same way, which is why I'm starting the novel with this - it'll take him a lot longer than the length of a novella to make up for it.

...the author twisted it around so that he was a victim after she published a less-than-flattering photo of him.

I think the author's attitude also makes a difference. In the case of the book you mentioned, the author doesn't seem to see anything wrong with the hero's actions. I'm going to try to see things from both my main characters' perspectives, and the heroine won't be wrong for feeling completely pissed off.

While there's a line I won't cross (if she ever says no or stop, my hero backs the hell off), I want to try pushing the envelope too.

cbenoi1 · Oct 4, 2013

> The hero goes to a brothel to collect taxes.

This is where I rose an eyebrow.

> And he's wildly attracted to her at once.

And this is where I rose the other eyebrow.

> Would it be a problem for you as a reader, though, that
> he got intimate with her under false pretenses?

I don't have a problem with deception. Deception of various degrees is a common trope in romantic stories. One or both parties have secrets (such as their identities) whereby the whole plot revolves around said party(ies) coming to terms with the secrets so that love can bloom. ex: You've Got Mail, Maid in Manhattan, etc.

The problem I see is that the MMC has been characterized to fit a premise, not the story. Comedy angle: What if they are BOTH clients and somehow the brothel owner got them mixed? Drama angle: What if the MMC is working a male prostitute for reasons other than money (ex: caught in some self-destructive / low self-esteem phase of his life)?

Just my C$0.01925.

-cb

Karen Junker · Oct 4, 2013

I'd go for it for as long as it takes to get them out of the main room and into a private space, where he cleverly explains the deception and then talks her into working with him to achieve some plausible and noble goal. In the process of regaining her trust, they then later can have the brilliant sex, etc. Basically, I agree with Captcha.

Marian Perera · Oct 4, 2013

cbenoi1 said:
The problem I see is that the MMC has been characterized to fit a premise, not the story.

True, though right now all I have is the premise. I know who the heroine is because she was a minor character in a previous manuscript and I thought she might be interesting in a follow-up, but I don't (yet) know what the story is going to be, or what she and the hero do after the sex.

It's something for me to think about.

Comedy angle: What if they are BOTH clients and somehow the brothel owner got them mixed?

I don't think that would work, because even if they weren't each lying back expecting the other one to pleasure them, their conversation would quickly give the game away. The heroine's very direct about what she wants and expects, so any such mix-up would quickly come to light.

Plus, while I like humor in stories, I'd be concerned that a start of this kind might give readers the impression that it's all a humorous romance, in which case I'd have to take out her scars, her past, etc.

Drama angle: What if the MMC is working a male prostitute for reasons other than money (ex: caught in some self-destructive / low self-esteem phase of his life)?

Could work, but would he have any reason to see her as something other than a client under those circumstances, given that he might have had dozens of women before her? Also, if he's a prostitute and she's looking for a prostitute, what conflict might there be and what reason would there be for them to be forced to work together in the future?

sunandshadow · Oct 4, 2013

I personally like the idea of volunteering to be a prostitute for someone you find attractive. Technically someone purchasing a prostitute's services isn't supposed to get emotionally or mentally intimate with them anyway. It's supposed to be safe sex with a stranger, which, he is a stranger to her, and he behaves safely, so I don't really see the difference from if it had been his first night working there as a part-time job, to fill in for the large number of missing regulars, and then he decided the next day not to keep working there.

cbenoi1 · Oct 4, 2013

Queen of Swords said:
Could work, but would he have any reason to see her as something other than a client under those circumstances, given that he might have had dozens of women before her? Also, if he's a prostitute and she's looking for a prostitute, what conflict might there be and what reason would there be for them to be forced to work together in the future?

The idea is to first put them together physically, then the real conflict arises out of having sex (in this case) - the same physical outcome but from different emotional perspectives. Same need (love and be loved), but different goals (FMC: sexual release without ties, MMC: easy money).

Now, does it have to be this one time thing or can love evolve over the span of many such encounters? In other words, can they develop a special exclusivity relationship that evolves to the point where they both realize they are into something a little larger than what they bargained for? (ex: Pretty Woman, Friends With Benefits, etc).

Just thinking aloud here.

-cb

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