What truly ANNOYS you in books? And not in a good way.

BookmarkUnicorn · Jul 29, 2014

The only characters that have ever smirked in my writing are very cheeky villains of the Loki from the Thor movies sort.
There are a certain circle of people that find that kind of thing sexy, but I'm more on the fence about it...

Sonsofthepharaohs · Jul 29, 2014

Wilde_at_heart said:
... I'll admit I have a 'thing' for green or green-brown eyes. Which are quite rare.

I have green eyes, and until not too long ago it never occurred to me that they might be rare (even though no one else in my family - or anyone else I know - has green eyes). I guess you write what you know, so I've written several MCs as having green eyes. Ooops...

K. Q. Watson · Jul 29, 2014

Regarding the no quotation marks thing, I've seen it done well in one book, Blindness, and horribly in another, The Road.

Generally I think I need quotes, but I think Blindness was the exception to the rule for me. But apparently The Road is much loved so maybe it is I who is the exception to the rule.

rohlo · Jul 29, 2014

Cormac McCarthy handles no-quotes very well, but other than the exceptional case of McCarthy it would smack of gimmick to me.

AngelsAvengeMe · Jul 29, 2014

Things that bug me:

- Phonetically writing out accents
- No quotations around dialogue
- Characters that need to be saved from everything and can't do anything for themselves
- In fanfics, newly created female characters who are somehow inserted into the world
- Inconsistencies within plot and characters

There's prob a lot more, I just can't think of them right now lol

Roxxsmom · Jul 29, 2014

Kallithrix said:
I have green eyes, and until not too long ago it never occurred to me that they might be rare (even though no one else in my family - or anyone else I know - has green eyes). I guess you write what you know, so I've written several MCs as having green eyes. Ooops...

Depends what you mean by green. Some gray eyes look green in certain lighting. Same for hazel eyes. Hazel eyes are fairly common in Northern and Western Europe. Pale green eyes are fairly rare, however.

If there's a reason for rare eye colors to be more common in a given story context, like it's a population or family thing (as in your case), then it doesn't bother me. It makes sense, also, for a pov character to notice someone's eye color if it's unusual.

I read something recently that suggested that the allele that is responsible for true blue eyes may have arisen quite recently (in Estonia, which has the highest percentage of blue-eyed people in the world, even today), like within the past 10-15,000 years. There's debate about this, however.

It did make me wonder about creating a fantasy world where no one happens to have blue eyes, however.

Sonsofthepharaohs · Jul 29, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
Depends what you mean by green. Some gray eyes look green in certain lighting. Same for hazel eyes.

They're not olive green like some I've seen, more like... sea green. With a brown ring around the pupil. I guess that must represent the raw sewage

The worst eye colour offence in literature though has got to be violet eyes. Unless it's sci fi and you're describing an alien race, just.... no.

BookmarkUnicorn · Jul 29, 2014

Kallithrix said:
They're not olive green like some I've seen, more like... sea green. With a brown ring around the pupil. I guess that must represent the raw sewage

The worst eye colour offence in literature though has got to be violet eyes. Unless it's sci fi and you're describing an alien race, just.... no.

What about red or pink eyes for a very pale person that can't go out in sunlight (who's also not a vampire)?

jjdebenedictis · Jul 29, 2014

Ooh! Ooh! Perfect discussion for me to whip out my inner geek. Okay, she's not so much "inner" unless you define "inner" to mean "inside the patch of air wherein JJ is standing".

Blue eyes are eyes without any pigment at all. The blue colour is caused by the microscopic structure of the iris, which gives rise to Rayleigh scattering, which is the same effect that causes the sky to be blue.

That means most human albinos have blue eyes, not pink or red eyes, as in bunny rabbits.

Grey eyes are also no-pigment eyes, but there's something about that person's iris structure that causes them to not have strong Rayleigh scattering.

Green eyes are just blue eyes with a small amount of brown pigment in them, which acts as a yellowish filter.

Hazel eyes are green eyes with even more pigment than that.

Yellow eyes (they exist! I've seen a guy with them!) are grey eyes with a small amount of brown pigment acting as a yellowish filter.

Purple eyes don't happen unless a blue-eyed person has blood in their iris, which is usually a sign of a medical problem.

Dennis E. Taylor · Jul 29, 2014

Kallithrix said:
The worst eye colour offence in literature though has got to be violet eyes. Unless it's sci fi and you're describing an alien race, just.... no.

Didn't Elizabeth Taylor have violet eyes?

Reziac · Jul 29, 2014

jjdebenedictis said:
Blue eyes are eyes without any pigment at all. The blue colour is caused by the microscopic structure of the iris, which gives rise to Rayleigh scattering, which is the same effect that causes the sky to be blue.

Grey eyes are also no-pigment eyes, but there's something about that person's iris structure that causes them to not have strong Rayleigh scattering.

My eye color changes depending on whether I remembered to take any vitamin A capsules recently (starting within about 12 hours, and lasts about 3 days). If not, they're blue-gray. If so, they're a startling bright blue that even strangers sometimes remark on. So what structure is being altered here??

Either way, I see in the dark like a vampire.

jjdebenedictis said:
That means most human albinos have blue eyes, not pink or red eyes, as in bunny rabbits.

Purple eyes don't happen unless a blue-eyed person has blood in their iris, which is usually a sign of a medical problem.

I had an albino classmate in Jr.High; he had bluish-pink eyes. (He was also partly blind, both in dim light and especially in bright sunlight.)

I'm thinkin' if you mix a touch of that pink albino eye with the right kind of blue eye, you might get "violet".

The problem with "violet eyes" in fiction isn't so much their rarity or improbability; it's that they're used as a marker for "I'm special and everyone should notice it" often without troubling to actually create a character around 'em.

thedark · Jul 30, 2014

My brown-eyed grandmother had violet eyes the last few years before her death (probably a medical issue). The most beautiful shade of violet I'd ever seen...

And my daughter has grey eyes. We kept thinking that really they were just an odd shade of blue.. But they are really truly grey. It's neat.

Of course, she has a green eyed donor and a green/brown hazel eyed mother.. So where'd the grey/blue come from anyway?

Wilde_at_heart · Jul 30, 2014

Reziac said:
The problem with "violet eyes" in fiction isn't so much their rarity or improbability; it's that they're used as a marker for "I'm special and everyone should notice it" often without troubling to actually create a character around 'em.

THIS. It pops up quite a bit in various SYW threads, along with 'special eyes' = magical powers.

As for 'eyes changing colour' I've never heard of vitamin A having that effect, but for some people, what they wear will make their eye colour look different, though it's a bit of an optical illusion. I know some whose greenish eyes look greener if they're wearing the right shade of green, etc. My own eyes look greener in photographs of myself than anything I see in a mirror as well.

Reziac · Jul 30, 2014

thedark said:
Of course, she has a green eyed donor and a green/brown hazel eyed mother.. So where'd the grey/blue come from anyway?

Recessive genes.

Wilde_at_heart said:
THIS. It pops up quite a bit in various SYW threads, along with 'special eyes' = magical powers.

About all I've used eye color for is as a familial trait, occasionally noticeable as that, but of no significance otherwise. But some of my nonhumans have fairly bright-colored eyes compared to humans, and come to mention it I'm not sure their eyes have any white. I wish they'd stand still for a photo, instead of running away screaming every time they see me.

Wilde_at_heart said:
As for 'eyes changing colour' I've never heard of vitamin A having that effect, but for some people, what they wear will make their eye colour look different, though it's a bit of an optical illusion.

I'm a freak

My mom has hazel eyes and they do that optical illusion very well, brown or green or even blue, depending. Whereas my eyes don't, tho my skin does (maroon clothes, or certain fluorescent lights, make me look downright yellow -- a sort of fake color-crayon yellow at that!!)

thedark · Jul 30, 2014

Reziac said:
Recessive genes.

Ahh, but answer me this one... on the donor's side, all the way back to HIS grandparents, we've got green on one side and brown on the other.

On my side, I've got solid brown on my mom's side, going back forever. On my father's, I've got all brown, except a grandmother with green eyes (which is where I assume my green/brown hazel came from).

Can blue really be THAT recessive, to go back 4 generations or more from the child?

Devil Ledbetter · Jul 30, 2014

Wilde_at_heart said:
I know some whose greenish eyes look greener if they're wearing the right shade of green, etc. My own eyes look greener in photographs of myself than anything I see in a mirror as well.

Yep. I have light blue eyes that look very blue when I wear blue, and more greenish blue or turquoise when I wear green. I'm sure it's just reflected color or something.

Husband has hazel eyes, both kids have their grandfather's brown eyes.

Lissibith · Jul 30, 2014

Andrea Rittschof said:
So talking about things I don't like in books are stories where the authors leaves you with a cliff hanger leaving it obvious you need to buy the next book to finish the story. I like sequels but I like the ones where at least one major plot point is completed at the end. Move the story forward using some of the dangling threads you write throughout the story.

Seconded really hard. I don't mind some loose ends, but if I paid for a book, I expect at least a complete major arc for someone or something, not just setup for a later book.

Also, blurbs that majorly mislead. In a recent example, I grabbed a book whose blurb suggested a sweeping secondary wold fantasy but turned out to spend the majority of the book being regular life on regular Earth. The fantasy world stuff was short, poorly developed and took place completely in one castle. See also - stealth romance novels.

Reziac · Jul 30, 2014

thedark said:
Ahh, but answer me this one... on the donor's side, all the way back to HIS grandparents, we've got green on one side and brown on the other.

Genetics -- why you look like your father, or if you don't, why you should.

I vaguely recall some DNA study that found roughly 1 in 5 Americans wasn't sired by the person they believed was their father. This may exaggerate, but it's always something to consider as possible. You really don't know what your ancestors were up to, and your ancestors may not either!

Funny story told by someone I used to know, who traced American Indian genealogies for a living:

Mary gave a presentation at some outfit like "Daughters of the Pilgrims" (I forget exactly) and afterward a woman came up, genealogical scroll in hand, and proudly proclaimed that she was descended from Famous Pilgrim Woman (whose name I also forget).

Mary said, "No, you're not."

The woman pointed at her scroll and insisted, "Yes I am; here she is in my pedigree!"

Mary said, "No, you're not. Famous Pilgrim Woman was sterile; she adopted 13 Indian children."

Needless to say, this did not go over well.

thedark said:
Can blue really be THAT recessive, to go back 4 generations or more from the child?

I can show you dog pedigrees where a recessive trait, not rare in dogs overall but in a given breed only sourced from one foundation animal, was in that breed (ie. ethnic population) vanishingly rare or not seen at all for 10 or more generations.

thedark · Jul 30, 2014

Reziac said:
Genetics -- why you look like your father, or if you don't, why you should.

I vaguely recall some DNA study that found roughly 1 in 5 Americans wasn't sired by the person they believed was their father. This may exaggerate, but it's always something to consider as possible. You really don't know what your ancestors were up to, and your ancestors may not either!

Funny story told by someone I used to know, who traced American Indian genealogies for a living:

Mary gave a presentation at some outfit like "Daughters of the Pilgrims" (I forget exactly) and afterward a woman came up, genealogical scroll in hand, and proudly proclaimed that she was descended from Famous Pilgrim Woman (whose name I also forget).

Mary said, "No, you're not."

The woman pointed at her scroll and insisted, "Yes I am; here she is in my pedigree!"

Mary said, "No, you're not. Famous Pilgrim Woman was sterile; she adopted 13 Indian children."

Needless to say, this did not go over well.

I can show you dog pedigrees where a recessive trait, not rare in dogs overall but in a given breed only sourced from one foundation animal, was in that breed (ie. ethnic population) vanishingly rare or not seen at all for 10 or more generations.

Oh I've teased my father... hehe. I look just like him though, so it was always more a matter of inventing a story where I could turn out not to be my mother's child (though I love my mother's sister, so we invented this fun tale of my aunt and my father having an affair, and my mother faking a pregnancy and stealing me away at birth -- just like a soap opera).

But yes, one does wonder on the donor's side, how much is accurate..

She's beautiful, my kiddo, and I love her blue/grey eyes.

We'll joke with her when she's older that she's the postman's kid. Cause, you know, the FedEx guy did deliver the goods.

BethS · Jul 30, 2014

thedark said:
Can blue really be THAT recessive, to go back 4 generations or more from the child?

Eye color genetics are way more complicated than most people realize. There are lots of genes involved, which means you can end up with a whole smorgasbord of eye color just in one family.

Wikipedia actually has a pretty good article about it.

BethS · Jul 30, 2014

Devil Ledbetter said:
Yep. I have light blue eyes that look very blue when I wear blue, and more greenish blue or turquoise when I wear green. I'm sure it's just reflected color or something.

Interestingly enough, in people with blue or green eyes, there is no blue or green pigment in their eyes at all. The color comes from the Rayleigh effect, which scatters light and can make the eyes look blue or green. (This is similar to why the sky looks blue, even though it isn't.) Because of this, blue, green, or gray eyes (though a different light scattering effect causes gray eyes) can seem to change color depending on the lighting.

Sonsofthepharaohs · Jul 30, 2014

Angry Guy said:
Didn't Elizabeth Taylor have violet eyes?

She came up a lot when I googled 'violet eyes', but in all honesty they look blue to me. A very warm sapphire blue, but definitely not purple.

Wilde_at_heart said:
for some people, what they wear will make their eye colour look different, though it's a bit of an optical illusion. I know some whose greenish eyes look greener if they're wearing the right shade of green, etc.

I love exploring colour in my artwork, and I'm always interested in how complimentary and clashing colours can change the perception of another colour. I always choose what colours to wear based on what suits my eye and hair colour - I have dark blonde hair with a lot of warm tones in it, so blue makes it look very red/brassy, but green suits me and brings out the cooler, yellow tones.

However, when I wear a very yellowy green my eyes look blue by comparison. The colours that make them look greenest are all the warm autumn tones - mustard, burnt orange, and most of all (strangely) pink. I wear a lot of pink, including eye shadow, because it makes my eyes look really green

Scribhneoir · Jul 30, 2014

Well, it's nice to learn that gray eyes are genetically possible, though I'll still roll my (greenish brown, but not quite hazel) eyes when the entire cast of characters has them.

Laiceps · Jul 30, 2014

Lissibith said:
Also, blurbs that majorly mislead. In a recent example, I grabbed a book whose blurb suggested a sweeping secondary wold fantasy but turned out to spend the majority of the book being regular life on regular Earth. The fantasy world stuff was short, poorly developed and took place completely in one castle. See also - stealth romance novels.

This!
I hate really really liking a book, then it turning into a romance with no warning, no hints from the blurb.

I just read/skimmed through a book that started off really brilliantly. It was fun, interesting, different, some sort of war coming up (yeah!),in another world (I thought).

Then, then, she meets a guy. And the rest of the book was all about that! The MC seemed to completely forget about everything else. I had to skim-I just wasn't interested- hoping the story would get back on track again. Bleh, not really.

If you want to write a romance, that's fine. But please tell me before I start liking your characters if I'm going to have to share them with a lot of eye gazing and heart pounding.

thedark · Jul 30, 2014

Scribhneoir said:
Well, it's nice to learn that gray eyes are genetically possible, though I'll still roll my (greenish brown, but not quite hazel) eyes when the entire cast of characters has them.

Giggle. I would never make a grey-eyed character in a novel.. it's too unusual, and I write about normal people in extraordinary situations. In my current WIP, the girl, Kay, has hazel eyes, and her captor has brown eyes with flecks of gold... just for fun, here is the introduction of his eye color, with a smidge of context:

I’m suddenly on my side, my head slamming into the thin blanket separating me from the concrete. His fingers are around my neck. His clenched jaw is only inches above my eyes. He’s very quiet as he says, “Look at me when I talk to you.”

I’m struggling against his arms, pushing with both my hands, but I stop and cry out when he kneads an elbow into my chest--into my [broken] ribs. A hundred splinters of glass stab through me. I can’t breathe. I find his eyes--they’re brown with flecks of gold.

I surrender my grip on his forearms.

He loosens his hold on my throat just enough for me to draw a quick breath.

“I’m sorry. I’m sorry.” I’m gasping and he’s letting me up. I’m sorry he’s bigger than me. I’m sorry I’m unarmed.

What truly ANNOYS you in books? And not in a good way.

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