Should I write this?

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Calla Lily

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But yeah, I understand a lot of your concerns/opinions. When I said 'a lot' at the start I may have been exaggerating haha

Anyway, I'll have to brainstorm that idea a bit, I was going to try and incorporate all her short stories from that collection into one novel as a tribute to her work. She used a lot of Alice in Wonderland references and ideas in the collection.

IANAL, but you're not going to be legally able to do that without written permission from her estate and her publisher.

If you want to write a book that incorporates classic fairy tales and fantasy, then write your own. Don't shoplift bits and pieces from someone else's hard work.

Write a B&tB-type story set on Mars, with androids. Or an Alice in Wonderland-type story where a 40s Big Band singer steps through a stage door onto an early 80s punk stage.

Build your own worlds. Because you're not going to get approval to plagiarize from a board full of writers. We are assuming nothing other than what you have said in your own posts in this thread.
 

Anninyn

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It's only a jumbled up plan at the moment and I was only wondering what was considered particularistic as it is a little vague in literature.

Shostakovich wanted to pay tribute to Bach, so he took all his Preludes and Fugues and rewrote them, twice.

I forget who it was, but it was a contemporary of Doe who took all his work and rewrote it because he thought he would do it better.

But, all that aside, looking at my idea, it doesn't play off of the Bloody Chamber, but more from the fairy tale. The only similarity at the moment is the Marquis' name (the Marquis) and the fact the girl is seventeen.

Music works differently to writing, and copyright law is different now to what it was in the past. You can't compare the two.

Nowadays, those musicians would get slammed with lawsuits. Remember Vanilla Ice and the trouble he got into for using the riff from Under Pressure without permission? Think of that level.

If those really are the only similarities, you probably don't need to worry.
 

mccardey

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Music works differently to writing, and copyright law is different now to what it was in the past. You can't compare the two.

Nowadays, those musicians would get slammed with lawsuits. Remember Vanilla Ice and the trouble he got into for using the riff from Under Pressure without permission? Think of that level.

If those really are the only similarities, you probably don't need to worry.

Remember Men At Work and Down Under?
 

mccardey

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I have to say I wouldn't do any tribute type thing unless the author or their estate employed me to.

Yes, I'd be filing it away in the Too Much Trouble folder. The problem, OP, is that the line between tribute and plagiarism is so very important. And if you're a new or newish writer, your agent and publisher might not think it's worth the trouble it will cause them.
 

Coop720

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Yes, I'd be filing it away in the Too Much Trouble folder. The problem, OP, is that the line between tribute and plagiarism is so very important. And if you're a new or newish writer, your agent and publisher might not think it's worth the trouble it will cause them.

Yeah that's the sucky bit, because she's my favourite author and the amount of times I've used Carter and her criticisms in essays is life-saving haha

In 135 years, someone will be able to reinvisage the collection.
 

mccardey

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Yeah that's the sucky bit, because she's my favourite author and the amount of times I've used Carter and her criticisms in essays is life-saving haha

In 135 years, someone will be able to reinvisage the collection.

Get yourself majorly famous as a writer would be my suggestion. That should make it easier ;)
 

Susan Coffin

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.....The problem is, I want to use a lot of the material she manifests from the fairy tale in the novel as well as my own. Do you think this sounds like a breech of copyright or plagiarism?

Let me know, thank you.

Yes. I don't know the copyright laws in the UK, but the The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories was published in 1979. It also sounds like fan fiction to me, but this is just my opinion. :)

It sounds like you are inspired by Carter's story. Why not use that inspiration and write your own?
 

Anninyn

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Get yourself majorly famous as a writer would be my suggestion. That should make it easier ;)

So much easier.

If Angela Carter's estate want a tribute to her work, they'll probably hire a pretty famous person who writes similar stuff (preferably who knew her personally) to write a short story for and collate an anthology - which they'll bring out for a special anniversary of some kind. Her birthday, maybe, or the anniversary of her death.

But, wonderful as I think she is, she's not really famous enough to get that sort of attention.

So write a magical realism fairytale novel, by all means, but don't try to make it a tribute to anyones work but your own. And maybe, if you do massively well at that, you can contact her rights holder and float the idea.
 

Coop720

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Thanks for the advice, writers, this is something that won't happen for a number of years, but thanks very much!
 

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Whoa! Less of the attack. I am not seeking to plagiarise work, this is an intertextual idea, not simply stealing an idea. I am not going to just copy and paste the story in any way!

One can plagiarise without copying and pasting. If your resulting story is noticeably similar to Ms Carters' then you can and will get into trouble.

Artists, authors and musicians have done this for centuries, why is it suddenly derivative when someone does it in the modern era?

I doubt you'll find "other people have done it in the past" an adequate defense if you land in court but you're welcome to try.

Anyway, I would ask the author, but she sadly died a while ago. So, I wonder where the rights have gone?

They haven't evaporated. They will remain with her estate which will, I'm sure, fight vigorously to protect those rights.

But yeah, I understand a lot of your concerns/opinions. When I said 'a lot' at the start I may have been exaggerating haha

Having had my work plagiarised I find nothing "haha" about your suggestions. I hope you'll think carefully about what you're suggesting and try to see why so many of us are so incensed by it.

Anyway, I'll have to brainstorm that idea a bit, I was going to try and incorporate all her short stories from that collection into one novel as a tribute to her work. She used a lot of Alice in Wonderland references and ideas in the collection.

If you do that, you'll be plagiarising her. You're a writer: use your own ideas and stop trying to take advantage of others. What you suggest isn't a tribute, it's plagiarism. Don't do it.

Excuse me, I'd prefer if you weren't so condescending. I understand how copyright works and you cannot copyright 'ideas' only works.

Part of those ideas are the specifics with which you express them. For example, if you use Ms Carter's characters' names in a story which bears other similarities to Ms Carter's stories then you'll be infringing on Ms Carter's copyright.

Moving on, I see no condescenscion. You're new to AW so perhaps you don't know how things work here yet: if you have a problem with something posted here please report the post, or PM one of the mods: it works far better than bickering in-thread. Thank you.
 

Coop720

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One can plagiarise without copying and pasting. If your resulting story is noticeably similar to Ms Carters' then you can and will get into trouble.



I doubt you'll find "other people have done it in the past" an adequate defense if you land in court but you're welcome to try.



They haven't evaporated. They will remain with her estate which will, I'm sure, fight vigorously to protect those rights.



Having had my work plagiarised I find nothing "haha" about your suggestions. I hope you'll think carefully about what you're suggesting and try to see why so many of us are so incensed by it.



If you do that, you'll be plagiarising her. You're a writer: use your own ideas and stop trying to take advantage of others. What you suggest isn't a tribute, it's plagiarism. Don't do it.



Part of those ideas are the specifics with which you express them. For example, if you use Ms Carter's characters' names in a story which bears other similarities to Ms Carter's stories then you'll be infringing on Ms Carter's copyright.

Moving on, I see no condescenscion. You're new to AW so perhaps you don't know how things work here yet: if you have a problem with something posted here please report the post, or PM one of the mods: it works far better than bickering in-thread. Thank you.


I'm not going to bother answering this, you've got all the material to review in the thread.

I am not seeking to plagiarise, don't make it out to be that because I know about all that jazz having to avoid it every day at university. You are taking my idea out of context of my true intentions, so don't think me some sort of thief or make me out to be one.

Read the actual text and maybe you'll have some idea.
 

Calla Lily

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Coop720, you're dissing a very intelligent and experienced Mod. You're also trying some sleight of hand to backtrack on your earlier posts.

A friendly warning: We're all writers. We all have to own our words. You're new to AW, so I suggest you get a better feel for how the community works. If you haven't read the Newbie Guide, I strongly advise you to do so, now.

Plagiarism is plagiarism, no matter how many synonyms anyone tries to disguise it with.
 

Coop720

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Coop720, you're dissing a very intelligent and experienced Mod. You're also trying some sleight of hand to backtrack on your earlier posts.

A friendly warning: We're all writers. We all have to own our words. You're new to AW, so I suggest you get a better feel for how the community works. If you haven't read the Newbie Guide, I strongly advise you to do so, now.

Plagiarism is plagiarism, no matter how many synonyms anyone tries to disguise it with.

Can you just do me a favour, please, and delete the thread? I don't mean to be rude, but, I'm only defending my integrity.

There's a difference between plain old thievery and academic interest. Thank you for the advice.
 

Maryn

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Listen more closely to what CallaLily just said, Coop. We all write, and as writers we all have to own our words. We don't delete threads for that reason.

If you feel you've made a mistake, own it. It's not so bad. Say you were mistaken, that now you see how, and you're sorry about that. Easy, right?

If you feel you haven't erred, then kindly reread the entire thread, including your stated intentions of borrowing "her antagonist is called 'the Marquis' instead of 'Bluebeard' and I was thinking of using 'the Marquis' also. Or, the Marquis gives her a ruby necklace and I was going to do the same, but that is not in the fairy tale." And "I was going to try and incorporate all her short stories from that collection into one novel..." As you now understand, those are overt copyright violations, and the likelihood of her estate suing you and winning are very high.

See, we've just saved you a nasty lawsuit! Rather than thinking we're maligning your integrity, I hope you'll see we're actually helping.

Maryn, oiling the waters
 

Coop720

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Thanks for reply, all my questions have been answered really though. I do understand what plagiarism is, though, so it's not as if I'm going in blind.

My original idea was a mistake, but I never intended to use the short stories for malicious use, I wanted to reinvisage them, but that's different from reinterpreting the original fairy tales (which all the short stories come from).

And by using the Marquis, I meant the name, not the character!

But yeah, thanks, I am leaving this thread now before I anger anyone further for my simple enquiry.
 

ChaosTitan

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We don't delete threads, unless there are extreme circumstances. As others have said, we're all writers here and we own our words.

Coop720, you haven't angered anyone in this thread. You've been given a great deal of advice and we've answered your question, so the thread can stay locked.
 
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