Publisher owning copyright, not author?

juniper · Apr 12, 2015

Recently in another thread here at AW (can't find it now) someone who lives in France mentioned that there, the publishers own the copyrights, not the authors.

I just saw something similar for an American publisher, Penguin Group. I saw this book at Barnes & Noble last night, "Thread End: An Embroidery Mystery" by Amanda Lee. Here's a screenshot of it on Amazon.

[URL=http://s844.photobucket.com/user/katkenway/media/Resized%20for%20sharing/Penguin%20copyright_zpsv4meksto.png.html]

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Really small, hard to see, but here's the main points:

First published by Obsidian, an imprint of New American Library, a division of Penguin Group (USA) LLC.

Copyright Penguin Group (USA) LLC, 2014

So - how is it that the publisher owns this copyright?

Coincidentally, I started reading a book today that's also published by Penguin, called "Lost at Sea: The Jon Ronson Mysteries." It says:

Riverhead Books
Published by the Penguin Group
Penguin Group (USA) Inc

Copyright 2012, 2013 by Jon Ronson Ltd

Link to that: http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Sea-Jon-Ronson-Mysteries/dp/1594631956/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1428821556&sr=1-1&keywords=jon+ronson+mysteries

Different wording, different divisions of Penguin, and for one the publisher has the copyright and the other the author has it.

So - why? Why would an American publisher own the copyright to a book? Actually, to several of her books, all in this same series, all from Obsidian.

SerenaAkeroyd · Apr 12, 2015

Could it be the story or the storylines are proprietary material of the publisher and the writer is like a ghostwriter?

WeaselFire · Apr 12, 2015

Publishers own whatever authors sign over to them. Check the contract for help.

A copyright notice does not mean all publishing rights, and a copyright will usually be listed with the name of the person or company publishing that specific edition in that specific format. If you look, you can find works where the posted copyright is one publisher for print, another for digital, another for foreign prints, another for second publishing, another for audio and so on.

The contract will specify what rights are being transferred and the terms for that transfer. Some will sell all rights, some just First North American rights, some only digital rights and you may even get someone selling serial rights (used to be common in the dime novel and serialized publications era, not as much now).

Jeff

Drachen Jager · Apr 12, 2015

The publisher owns the copyright if you sell it to them.

That's why you need to read your contracts, know what you're selling, for how long, and when the rights will revert to you.

This is all important stuff for authors to know, especially if you don't have a really good agent.

amergina · Apr 12, 2015

Hard to say why...

Could be that the author signed over the copyright.
Could be that the publisher developed the property and the author wrote it as work-for-hire.

FWIW, I'm published with Penguin via their InterMix imprint, and for both books, I hold the copyright.

ETA: I'm almost willing to bet it's something like a work-for-hire situation.

NDoyle · Apr 12, 2015

I've seen a contract for Oxford University Press in which the copyright is in the name of the press but reverts to the author(s) when the book goes out of print.

NinjaFingers · Apr 12, 2015

It's definitely not a work for hire deal - I looked Amanda Lee up. It's a pen name, but that shouldn't affect anything. For some reason, she let Penguin register the copyright - which, by the way, is a bad idea because if you ever break up with your publisher it can be hard to get it transferred.

amergina · Apr 12, 2015

NinjaFingers said:
It's definitely not a work for hire deal - I looked Amanda Lee up. It's a pen name, but that shouldn't affect anything. For some reason, she let Penguin register the copyright - which, by the way, is a bad idea because if you ever break up with your publisher it can be hard to get it transferred.

There's actually no way to know if it is or isn't, short of asking the author or publisher.

Some you can guess.

For example, Kevin Hearne doesn't hold the copyright to the Star Wars Novel he wrote, 'cause... Star Wars. We all know that's a work-for-hire book. (And he uses the same name for his Iron Druid books, so no, pen name doesn't matter.)

It just makes more sense to me for it to be a kind of work-for-hire thing. Or developed property. Something like that.

Especially since the author has an agent at a decent agency that brokered the deals. (I looked it up on Pub Marketplace.)

Occam's Razor and all that.

Old Hack · Apr 13, 2015

juniper said:
Recently in another thread here at AW (can't find it now) someone who lives in France mentioned that there, the publishers own the copyrights, not the authors.

This is not the standard I am used to. I've sold several books to French publishers, and I can't remember a single instance where they took copyright.

I just saw something similar for an American publisher, Penguin Group. I saw this book at Barnes & Noble last night, "Thread End: An Embroidery Mystery" by Amanda Lee. Here's a screenshot of it on Amazon.

<snipped>

Really small, hard to see, but here's the main points:

First published by Obsidian, an imprint of New American Library, a division of Penguin Group (USA) LLC.

Copyright Penguin Group (USA) LLC, 2014
So - how is it that the publisher owns this copyright?

The author concerned has a history of ghosting, I think. I suspect this was done as a work-for-hire basis of sorts. But I'm not sure.

NinjaFingers said:
It's definitely not a work for hire deal - I looked Amanda Lee up. It's a pen name, but that shouldn't affect anything. For some reason, she let Penguin register the copyright - which, by the way, is a bad idea because if you ever break up with your publisher it can be hard to get it transferred.

If the publisher registered the copyright as theirs without having the rights to do so, then they are in trouble. If they DID have the rights to claim copyright then it is almost certainly all specified in the contract which exists between the author and the publisher, in which case it should be clear who owns what and for how long, and if and how those rights will ever revert.

juniper · Apr 14, 2015

Old Hack said:
This is not the standard I am used to. I've sold several books to French publishers, and I can't remember a single instance where they took copyright.

Found the post about this. http://http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9365569&postcount=5[/URL]

There are some replies after that question this practice too. Certainly seems different from what I'm used to hearing.

Publisher owning copyright, not author?

juniper

Always curious.

SerenaAkeroyd

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member

Drachen Jager

Professor of applied misanthropy

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

NDoyle

Writer, Editor, Photographer

NinjaFingers

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

juniper

Always curious.