Are you living the dream?

I was told (or maybe I read this somewhere, I don't remember) that professionally published authors usually can't afford to quit their day jobs until they have 5 or 6 books out there on the shelf.

TanbirMuhammad said:

Yes, I'm sure I read something similar, somewhere. I think I read somewhere that, apart from the very small percentage of novelists such as JK Rowling, most novelists have to publish at least four novels until they can give up their day jobs. I can't remember where I read this.

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I'm not published, not even close, so I'm not qualified to answer your questions, but in all honesty I'm fairly certain that people who are published will agree that having one published book out there isn't enough to make most authors financially comfortable to quit their day job.

At anyway, I was reminded of this website, which might have some information that might spark your (and other's) interest. http://authorearnings.com/

For the most part, it's very hard to make a living as a fiction writer. 95% of the published authors I know of have a day job--full, or part time, possibly supported by others. The left over 5% are hard working people, or have very low standard of living--my friend travels the world and need around $6K to keep afloat. And those who are wealthy are extremely, extremely rare.

Novel writing isn't a job; you don't get a steady paycheck, you don't get health benefits, and you'll have to pay taxes. As a debut author through trade publishing, you'll probably get very little from your advance and make pocket change from your royalties. From there, who knows? From debut self-published author, you'll be lucky to make enough money for a fancy coffee every-so-often--and that's not taking into account the possible thousands you might have invested for editing, cover, printing, and other stuff. There is no guarantee in making money with self-publishing.

I say this: Don't quit your day job. Keep on writing. Hell, write as if you wish to be wealthy. Worked for Jack London. If you end up making more money from your writing than your day job, and you've got stable advancement in place (like series, or a good working relationship with a publisher), then I say think hard about quitting your job. But don't quit until you're completely sure your writing, and your savings, can support you.

I think a lot depends on how much the novelist needs to keep their lifestyle. $35,000 a year is hell for some people, heaven for others. By this, becoming a full-time novelist is nigh impossible for some, and totally doable for others.

TanbirMuhammad said:

Also, when a novelist is published for the first time, is it common that that person will soon be able to give up their day job?

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No.

TanbirMuhammad said:

Do many published authors still have to work other jobs?

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Yes.

Osulagh has some great advice here. Osulagh is very wise. :Bows down to Osulagh :

to obtain this wonderful lifestyle?

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I think you are glorifying it big times. My father has been a full-time writer for the past 15 years and their is nothing wonderful about this lifestyle at all. Money is tight (and comes in irregularly) and the deadlines often force him to crank out words all through the night, whether he feels "inspired" or not.

If I were you I would really think twice if this is really your goal. Once your entire existence depends on your writing it becomes a lot less fun (I guess that's true for pretty much every passion-turned-profession.)

I have 5 published and I would starve to death if I didn't have a day job.

To the OP: This is not a get-rich quick scheme. If you came to writing to build your fortune, good luck.

maggi90w1 said:

I think you are glorifying it big times. My father has been a full-time writer for the past 15 years and their is nothing wonderful about this lifestyle at all. Money is tight (and comes in irregularly) and the deadlines often force him to crank out words all through the night, whether he feels "inspired" or not.

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This is exactly my thoughts. I can't think of any worse block-inducing thing than having to write just to cover this month's rent.

I'm not published (yet), but I love my life. My day job is at a museum and I love that as I love it when I'm in the zone writing. Even if I was offered a six-figure deal this afternoon, I doubt that I would quit the day job (perhaps go part-time, but quit, no).

I write at my best when I should be doing something else. Lots of time and a well equipped lab of creativity are my worst enemy. The dream doesn't work for me.

It was difficult enough a move going from a full-time job to working freelance full time. And it wasn't rosy. Freelance jobs come and go like buses (even if you have regular clients - there is no guarantee). Maybe not everyone is like me, but after a while (and a lot of luck) I decided to revert back to working for an employer part time, and now this job allows me to do enough hours most of the time not to worry about how I'm going to live if I don't get anything on the freelance side. It's taken a lot of stress off my shoulders.

I know of someone who had a well-paid full-time job and gave it up to launch his own publishing company. Spent all his dosh, and barely gets sales to make up for it. Yes, he had a big dream. But reality can be harsh. But then on the other side there are success stories to balance this. There are writers who write full time and make enough money from it. I also know a lot of writers who manage to write while still working part or full time.

But my advice is to be extremely careful, and do lots of planning. If I were you, I'd wait before jumping. Establish yourself first, and when you have enough streaming in to make up the necessary wage and you feel comfortable to do so, think again, about the future. If I were in this situation, I'd still make sure I had a backup plan.

There are lots of criteria to take into consideration. Market, the publishers themselves, etc. And that varies from one person to another.

Good luck to you.

I think the people "living the life" are going to be the exception to the rule, to be honest.

You can quit your day job if you live very frugally. Like, "my wife can't stand it anymore and we're divorced now" frugally. And even then your books have to sell.

If this was my only income at this point, I'd scrape by without any sense of financial security. As supplement to the household income, it's terrific and I feel very lucky. There are dream-come-true aspects and sober practicalities.

Like asking musicians or painters or actors the same thing.

For most rock musicans having a weekly gig at a pub is the ceiling, and playing a wedding is a super bonus, and having the demo reviewed favorably in a free webzine in Honduras is 'fame at last'.

My dream has always been to work on my writing full time. When I kept thinking about it as a dream, it felt almost unrealistic.

So then I thought of my dream into a goal...

I went against the advice that most authors swear by. I quit my day job, moved into my mom's apartment, and focused on writing better stories. That was a few months ago.

And I don't regret it one bit.

This is a big compromise. I've strained my relationship with my boyfriend by moving hours away from him. Although my mom is understanding, there's always some guilt in having her support me while I write, which makes me work harder. Not to mention that I'm not the most friendliest or extroverted person when I'm working, so I'm not much company. I don't have a social life. I also take small writing gigs wherever I can find them, and also take other odd jobs to pay for the couple of bills I have.

However, I've written more short stories than I used to when I had a full-time (or even part-time) day job, I am going through first edits on a novel and am currently working on a second novel. I've submitted one story to a magazine already. I've accomplished my goal. I'm writing.

Mind you, this arrangement's only going to last until Fall at the very latest, at which point i'm going to have to reflect on what I've done and take the next step.

I've grown up reading authors who took on multiple gigs throughout their career. It's no big secret, you can google famous authors odd jobs and you'll discover that many novelists were not living chiefly off book profits. And you can't assume that if a novelist doesn't have another job then they're making money off their books alone. They could have a strong support system or the means not to worry about making a big income from books. Their books might be optioned for films or other projects, which multiples the stream of revenue a novelist receives.

Everyone wants to make more money in whatever they do. You can make more money, I just wouldn't get bogged down on using one avenue (writing novels) to get you there. Instead focus on becoming a better writer. Read and write as much as possible. Study other writers you like and how they got to their success if you want, but I'd pay attention to what makes their writing so awesome. That's more of a success to me than how much they earned.

Lhowling said:

… I quit my day job ... and focused on writing better stories ...

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Love it!

I've been AWOL from work for several months. Alas, must return soon. All good things ...

maggi90w1 said:

I think you are glorifying it big times. My father has been a full-time writer for the past 15 years and their is nothing wonderful about this lifestyle at all. Money is tight (and comes in irregularly) and the deadlines often force him to crank out words all through the night, whether he feels "inspired" or not.

If I were you I would really think twice if this is really your goal. Once your entire existence depends on your writing it becomes a lot less fun (I guess that's true for pretty much every passion-turned-profession.)

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I honestly don't know a pro writer who thinks that way. All I know thinks it's far more fun, once you;re able to go full-time. And I mean all of them. It's certainly one heck of a lot more fun for me.

I don't want to pick on your father, but if he's having that much trouble making ends meet, he either isn't really in a position to be a full-time writer, or he needs to move to a cheaper area. If you;re going to seriously struggle to make ends meet, you may as well make it easy on yourself and keep a day job. Most of use don't struggle that much.

As for deadlines making him crank out words all through the night, whether he feels "inspired" or not, we all do that at times, but for most of us, it's because we want to. If you have to live like this, get a job. Though any writer who needs to be "inspired" to write isn't likely to get anywhere, anyway.

You can't judge every full-time writer's lifestyle by that of you father. There are a surprising number of incredibly rich writers out there, and I don't mean just million dollar rich. I mean mega millions rich, year after year after year. There are also a massive number who earn enough money to live far better than the average family, and without working themselves to death.

I think you need to read more books, blogs, and websites pro writers put up. I've looked at hundreds, maybe more, and I've yet to find a writer who thinks being a full-time writer is less fun. They love it, they revel in it, they can't believe they're able to actually live such a wonderful lifestyle.

But like any otehr way of earning a living, you have to make enough money to take the pressure off, or you shouldn't do it. Writers grossly underestimate how much money it take to live without pressure. Someone mentioned $35,000. That's just average income where I live, but if I wanted to live that same exact lifestyle, I would have to earn double that.

Fifteen percent of my money goes to an agent. Another fifteen percent and change goes to pay to SS. Then I have to pay state and federal taxes. Then I have to buy my own health insurance. Half of my money would be gone before I could spend a penny. Then I need enough money in the bank to cover any vacation time, and time off because of sickness, and to get through a period where checks came in irregularly.

Being a full-time writer is wonderful. I can think of better ways to live, of a couple of things I think I'd rather do, but they're illegal, immoral, or hand to mouth living. But to make it wonderful, you have to be making enough money to live without worrying about paying bills, and without working yourself to death, except when you want to, just like any other profession. This is always at least double, and usually at least triple, what most think it takes, minimum. More, when you realize you also need at least six months income in the bank at all times.

The real question, I guess, is how much your dad loves living the way he is? Does he hate it, or does he think it's a wonderful way to live?

Anyway, being a full-time writer is, for all I know who do it, as wonderful and as fun as it gets, as long as you're making enough money to live, rather than to just survive. Really, how could spending your life working for someone else be better? How could working a job you hate, the way most do, begin to measure up?

Jamesaritchie said:

Really, how could spending your life working for someone else be better?

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Any business man will tell you that no-one works for themselves. They are working for the next contract, the next customer, the next sale. A writer may be 'freelance' (i.e self-employed) but we are working for our agents, our publishers, the reader who buys our book.

I see this question asked a lot. I've never seen a concrete answer pop up, and I think there are just too many variables. How well you write, how productive you are, and what you write all matter a whole lot. So does what you consider to be 'a living'. For example, I live with 3 other people, all of whom work and have no intentions of quitting, so if I made 15k a year off my writing I'd consider myself a success and be content writing full time. Someone else might need 70k a year before they could quit their day job.

After watching a lot of people here on AW and elsewhere try to break in to writing, I have come to the conclusion that success really isn't this elusive unicorn some people seem to think it is. People who write well, write a lot, and write in a reasonably popular genre eventually meet with some success. I don't think I can emphasize the 'write a lot' part enough, though. Not only may you have to write a number of novels before hitting on an idea that interests an agent or publisher, once you're published being highly productive will greatly increase your chances of making a good living.

I quit the day job in 2007. I currently have 22 novels in print and ebook in genre presses, and over 300 short stories published in 13 languages.

I make a living. Not a great living, but a living. A mass market book deal would be nice -- but as I say, I manage without it at the moment.

I'm also not in a position to really answer these questions, so I'm just speculating here. But I have read that it's much harder to make a living as a writer even for successful and prolific writers (not the famous ones) because publishers are giving much smaller advances than they have in the past.

I would also think it would depend quite a bit on the genre that you're writing in and, as always, luck. I imagine that it's tougher for a literary fiction writer, for example, to earn enough money to quit their day job (or even think about it) than, say a mystery writer or a romance writer.

Djuna

justMANGO said:

I was told (or maybe I read this somewhere, I don't remember) that professionally published authors usually can't afford to quit their day jobs until they have 5 or 6 books out there on the shelf.

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This IMO is a low and optimistic number. This might be a genre thing, but for my field, 20 is a better starting point for secure income. Talking with some series writers, book five to six is when a series picks up on the sales front, but not to the point of quitting the day job.

Then there's the publisher loopholes, agent and taxes math... 15% to agent, I think my state and federal tax averages another 15% here for private contractors, and any amount held back against returns. Final take-home can be about half the actual contract amount.

I haven't hit the "living off my writing" point, but I can reliably pay several monthly bills from my writing income. It's very stressful watching sales and hoping it's enough to cover these bills. For me, it's important to live frugally and save up ever extra penny possible for the leaner months. If I wasn't already unemployed, I wouldn't consider quitting my job for writing unless I had access to a minimum of one year's financial needs set aside. Living month-by-month, hand-to-mouth is stressful, especially when you're supporting a family.

gothicangel said:

Any business man will tell you that no-one works for themselves. They are working for the next contract, the next customer, the next sale. A writer may be 'freelance' (i.e self-employed) but we are working for our agents, our publishers, the reader who buys our book.

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I'm a freelance artist after years of working for 'the man'. I have many regular buyers, all with whom I have pleasant relationships. If someone were to be a bitch or dick to me, I simply wouldn't work for them. I'd find another buyer elsewhere.

Because of this, while I'm always broke, and I work incredibly long hours, my life is not beholden to one bitchy person. It is beholden to an ever-changing network of wonderful people.

Being a freelancer is nothing like being employed by a boss.

This is something I used to think about a lot. But then I finally realized something very important:

I remembered WHY I wanted to write in the first place.

When I get together with other writers to talk shop, it always feels depressing whenever the conversation turns to money, word-count, productivity, royalties, getting more books out faster, self-publishing vs traditional publishing, marketing, etc.

I don't know about you guys, but when I fell in love with storytelling and writing in my formative years, I never once thought, "I can't wait to spend my days stressing about whether I've hit my designated word-count for the day, then dive into the daily self-promotion/marketing shuffle via social-media, and end the day by thinking long and hard about how I can push more books out faster so I can build a bigger fanbase that will generate more income."

Think about why you fell in love with writing in the first place. It was about the love of storytelling and writing, and not about money or fame.

Yes, it would be great if you could just spend the time you do now on a day job on your writing instead, so that instead of coming home tired and not having the energy to write, you can write whenever you want during the day, instead of trying to squeeze time out of your busy life to write. But I find that for a lot of people, there's an optimal writing time for each person. Some people can write all day long and not feel drained, while some can only write for a couple of hours before their brain turns to mush and they're done for the day. So when you think you want a full-time career in writing, you first have to assess just what your threshold is for actually writing "full-time."

For me, writing is a passion that I will dedicate time to even if I won the lottery and never have to work again, so it's not about the money. It's also something I'll continue to do even if I never become famous, though in this day and age, most writers will at least have a few dozen to a few hundred followers of his work, so there's at least joy in sharing your stories with people who actually love your stories and aren't just your obligated family and friends. The high I get from being immersed in a world with characters I created, conveying themes that are close to my heart--nothing compares to that. That's why I write. I don't ever want to let all those concerns about commerce/business side of writing overshadow the pure love for storytelling.

The desire to want to be able to do nothing but write is a double-edged sword, because in order to be able to do that, you have to be able to sell enough to make a decent living, which means you have to become preoccupied with numbers and productivity. But when you are knee-deep in the business side of writing, it's very possible it'll start to erode your passion for writing, because for many of us creative types, business just isn't our thing--that's what guys in suits do. We just want to tell stories.

I don't have a good answer to all this because every person's threshold for how much they can write before they burn out, standard of living, tolerance/interest in business, etc, are different. So I can only speak for myself.

Currently, I'm at the point in my life where I'm getting close to being able to live frugally off of the investments me and my wife have made. In the last few years I've already made the transition to working part-time at home, so I already have enviable freedom and time to write. There's no pressure to sell enough as a writer, so I only need to write what I enjoy and can be proud of, and because there's no pressure, I take it easy on myself with word-count, so I'm writing without unnecessary pressure and let my passion be my guide instead of some productivity quota. If/When we're able to just live off of our investments and I have total freedom, I doubt I'll be writing all day long just because I can, because writing is intellectually and emotionally very taxing for me (I'm the type who cries along with my characters as I'm typing out a sad scene), so after three to four hours of uninterrupted writing, my brain is done for the day and I need to relax. I have often read that is the case for many professional full-time writers, so it's a misconception that all "real writers" write all day long as if it's a 9-to-5 job of full 8 working hours.

When/if my books are finished and published, I don't think I'll be the type to devote much energy into promoting, signing, conventions, nor would I be inclined to care too much about being fast or prolific. I think being financial independent affords that kind of freedom, so you just write what makes you happy, and you get it done at your own pace. If publishers try to pressure me into things I don't want to do (such as a bunch of signing, attend conventions, do publicity, etc), I'll try to get out of as much of it as possible. I live a fairly reclusive life and I like it that way (though I'm very active Online). It's taken me many years to finally be able to live like this, and I don't want to go back to a life that is counter-intuitive and taxing to my introvert tendencies.

So anyway, those are my thoughts on "living the life of a writer."