Are you living the dream?

I can speak to my own experience, but also from the collected conversations I've had with probably approaching 200 first-time authors with Big 5 houses and large indies.

In the vast majority of cases (in fact, I can only think of two who were strikingly otherwise) the publishers have been thrilled to acquire a new talent and have proven it with a diligent, enthusiastic editorial process and a targeted, thorough, and supportive marketing plan.

Being a new author is a great place to be. Ramping it up into a long, successful career is probably much more dependent on luck than is getting your foot in the door in the first place. I have a friend, a five time New York Times Bestselling author, multiple big award winner, and she knows very well that the happy accident of a certain radio show host picking up her first, modestly performing novel and loving it -- well, she knows it changed her life and that it was a happy bit of fortune that she could have never engineered.

That's where the luck came in, not in her getting the initial deal.

Thank you Unimportant - I actually thought I'd link to it as well, and quote this part especially:

Aspiring writers are forever asking what the odds are that they’ll wind up in category #14. That’s the wrong question. If you’ve written a book that surprises, amuses, and delights the readers, and gives them a strong incentive to read all the pages in order, your chances are very good indeed. If not, your chances are poor.

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Bears repeating. Notice she says 'you're chances are very good', not 'a hundred percent'.

Almost every debut writer I've heard of have experienced a round of rejections before they were finally published. But I don't believe this means it's only blind, dumb luck that decides whether you get picked out of the slushpile or not. I believe it's because the reputable, successful agents get more 'category 14' submissions than they have the capacity to sign. But not in the hundreds - say they have ten other publishable manuscripts to choose from at the time you submit. It will be subjective which one they end up with, yes. You can't control it completely, that's true.

But you can increase your chances to be the one who stands out among those ten. Research agents to be sure they're interested in your type of book and personalise your query letter accordingly. Follow all their submission guidelines, work on your pitch until it both gets your central premise clearly across and showcase your writing skills. Make sure your whole submission package appears as professional as possible.

You still can't be a hundred percent certain you will be the one new author the agent will sign that year. Someone else might have submitted something equally professional and well-researched, and be the one they pick. That's why you query widely, to further increase your chances.

So no sure-fire walk in the park, but not mere dumb luck either. Do your research, polish your submission, and keep going. One day you will be the one they pick.

At least, this is my business plan. I don't think it's naive at all.

Perks said:

Yes, like you say, it's not random luck. It's not like a meteor falling on your house and not your cousin's in Poughkeepsie.

There are many, many factors and all sane attention paid to any of these factors goes a ways toward setting up your work to succeed. I can't think of any reason at all to dwell on luck, but that doesn't mean I don't have an candled altar in my basement, heaped high with chicken feathers.

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I put pig's feet and sometimes borrow my godson to put on my altar, but you know, whatever works.

Putputt said:

I put pig's feet and sometimes borrow my godson to put on my altar, but you know, whatever works.

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Exactly. The mess is worth the leg up with the Great Beyond.

Torill said:

Do your research, polish your submission, and keep going. One day you will be the one they pick.

At least, this is my business plan. I don't think it's naive at all.

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Not naive at all. It's simple and hopeful and literally the only thing you can do. It's the formula every writer who has come before you has used, including myself.

I think when I said "Luck," it might've been the wrong choice of words. So I'll change it and say that once you've written good, publishable book, finding a deal all comes down to "Positioning and Chance."

Is there is an element of setting yourself up to succeed? Of course there is. And when I said 'All things being equal', this was what I meant, good book, good agent, etc... I don't understand why anyone would submit a manuscript they half-assed to a major publisher, so to me, having the absolute best book you can write is the very beginning of the process.

Once you have a publishable book and a great agent to shop it around, that's when the wheel starts to spin, and "chance" comes into play. If you don't get in the first time, of course you try again. That's what everyone who is serious about this pursuit does. There are out there right now, all of them perfectly positioned with good, publishable books, all of them hoping for a deal.

Like I said before, this is not an impossible business to break into. It's an extremely hard business to break into, and once you're in you'll realize right away that getting published was easy compared to staying published… but that's another topic all together.

I agree with Jackx. Fiction publishing is such a subjective business, except for the obvious commercial projects (Zoella frex), fiction is about love. Editors have to LOVE a book, especially a debut. You can write the best book, and have 50 agents fighting over you, but if no editors love it or think it will sell, it just won't get traditionally published. Luck and chance are involved but they are probably 2% of the process. That 2% can make all the difference.

I speak as an editor in trade publishing and a writer who has just got a book deal with a Big 5 for her debut novel. I wrote a good book, I got a great agent, and now I have a great publisher. Some of this came down to luck - finding the right editor at the right time, who didn't have a similar title on their list (two publishers had this, so passed on my book, unlucky, right?) but 98% of it was down to hard work and perseverance.

So to answer the OPs original question (seems we have got a little off topic?), I am totally living the dream! I love my day job and now I have achieved something I've been working towards and dreaming about since I was a kid. I may not yet be earning enough from my writing to quit my day job but I'm not sure I would even if I did.

BethKLewis said:

Luck and chance are involved but they are probably 2% of the process. That 2% can make all the difference.

I speak as an editor in trade publishing and a writer who has just got a book deal with a Big 5 for her debut novel. I wrote a good book, I got a great agent, and now I have a great publisher. Some of this came down to luck - finding the right editor at the right time, who didn't have a similar title on their list (two publishers had this, so passed on my book, unlucky, right?) but 98% of it was down to hard work and perseverance.

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Sorry if I'm being nitpicky. I feel like luck has nothing to do with it in this case. It appeared that despite two rejections from editors who already had books similar to yours (suggests that if they didn't then they might have considered you, but that's just a guess), you continued onward and found an agent who didn't have a book like yours. To me it's not luck but persistence and opportunity. Perhaps finding the editor at the right time would count as luck, but what made it "the right time?"

I think it's important to make sure we're clear on what is defined as actual hard work and what is luck. Not all unknown variables have to do with being lucky or not.

Lhowling said:

Sorry if I'm being nitpicky. I feel like luck has nothing to do with it in this case. It appeared that despite two rejections from editors who already had books similar to yours (suggests that if they didn't then they might have considered you, but that's just a guess), you continued onward and found an agent who didn't have a book like yours. To me it's not luck but persistence and opportunity. Perhaps finding the editor at the right time would count as luck, but what made it "the right time?"

I think it's important to make sure we're clear on what is defined as actual hard work and what is luck. Not all unknown variables have to do with being lucky or not.

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I already had the agent. My agent sent my book to publishers. Some passed. Some offered. Some passed because of the reason I stated. It's impossible to predict who will fall in love with a book and who won't or who will have signed a similar book that morning or who has decided to leave their job so won't acquire anything new or who has just come off an awful commute so won't even look at that debut manuscript The Girl on the Train etc. That's where the tiny speck of luck comes in - right book, right person, right time. And no matter how much hard work you do or how good your book is, you have absolutely no control over that.

Yes perseverance and hard work are essential, which I said, but they aren't a guarantee. The business is almost entirely subjective, it's full of serendipitous stories of success. If there was a concrete formula to it then everyone would have a book deal.

I actually find the idea of a little bit of luck/chance/opportunity/fate/stars aligning to be quite comforting. If I'm rejected then maybe it's not because my writing is awful or my story is tired, but because of XYZ reason that has nothing to do with me. Some people may not find that a comfort but I do *shrug*

Maybe it's the word 'luck' that has caused such a reaction on this thread but there is an element to getting a book deal that is out of a writers or agents control, that can depend on 100s of variables, that can be unfair and seemingly disregard all the writer's hard work... I call it luck. I believe I'm lucky in what I've accomplished. I've worked damn hard for it but I'm lucky too.

BethKLewis said:

I already had the agent. My agent sent my book to publishers. Some passed. Some offered. Some passed because of the reason I stated. It's impossible to predict who will fall in love with a book and who won't or who will have signed a similar book that morning or who has decided to leave their job so won't acquire anything new or who has just come off an awful commute so won't even look at that debut manuscript The Girl on the Train etc. That's where the tiny speck of luck comes in - right book, right person, right time. And no matter how much hard work you do or how good your book is, you have absolutely no control over that.

Yes perseverance and hard work are essential, which I said, but they aren't a guarantee. The business is almost entirely subjective, it's full of serendipitous stories of success. If there was a concrete formula to it then everyone would have a book deal.

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Yea, this entire post resonates with me. Especially after reading so many blog posts and tweets by agents. I remember one by an agent who did a #tenqueries thing and one of the queries was rejected because it was for an MG book about a spider and she'd just signed on an MG book about a spider the week before. I mean, the author can of course persist and query other agents, but because of luck, that agent won't be representing that author.

I actually find the idea of a little bit of luck/chance/opportunity/fate/stars aligning to be quite comforting. If I'm rejected then maybe it's not because my writing is awful or my story is tired, but because of XYZ reason that has nothing to do with me. Some people may not find that a comfort but I do *shrug*

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I find it pretty terrifying, mainly because I've been on the wrong side of luck.

I especially like this:

I believe I'm lucky in what I've accomplished. I've worked damn hard for it but I'm lucky too.

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You've just said in a nutshell what I've been trying to convey for ages. I don't just believe in one or the other. I believe in both. Hard work I can control, the other not so much. But all I can do is keep trying, keep honing my skill, and hope for the best. Oh, and also those pig feet offerings...

So to sum up then?

It's hard to get published.

Even harder to sustain your initial success.

But you can if you write well and work hard.

Maybe.

Sorry I meant to say editor. My apologies!

I don't know if it's been quoted already but: "The harder I practice, the luckier I get." Gary Player, golfer. In other words hard work and luck are not separate, but instead share a relationship. If you believe in luck, that might be worth considering.

I think it's important to remember that luck isn't a reason for a writer getting published. Luck comes up because of the odds stacked against writers in terms of their odds for getting published. But it's not a reason.
I understand how luck is comforting. Instead I think it's telling when an author can discuss what their process was like to get to the publisher, the research that it took, etc.

I only say this because I've had a chance to work with a couple of authors who make a career out of it and luck is never discussed. Instead, they left the impression that it was the work put into polishing your book(s) and finding people who are in need of your book(s) that new writers have to understand. Rejection isn't uncommon in business, and it may take several rejections for a writer to polish their work or for a writer to find a publisher that's best for their book.

Publius said:

So to sum up then?

It's hard to get published.

Even harder to sustain your initial success.

But you can if you write well and work hard.

Maybe.

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Yes.

But there's much fun to be had along the way amid all the unpleasantness and nerves. I'd say that finding this group here at AW has been life-changing and would have been even if I hadn't been fortunate enough and diligent enough to have the elements align for publishing.

djunamod said:

I'm also not in a position to really answer these questions, so I'm just speculating here. But I have read that it's much harder to make a living as a writer even for successful and prolific writers (not the famous ones) because publishers are giving much smaller advances than they have in the past.

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I keep hearing this too, but it doesn't match what I'm seeing in reality IF you include digital first/epublishers/small publishers/self-publishing. I've had some conversations about this subject with authors at conferences, and it tends to be divided into two factions: the NY authors who are frustrated with shrinking advances, and the ebook authors who are watching their income steadily rise as their backlist grows.

The backlist is a huge part of that. When your books don't go out of print, they stay out there and keep making money. I have a book that came out in 2009 and still earns $1-2K a year. Another came out in 2010 and consistently earns about $100 per month. Not a ton of money by any means, but when you figure in the other 70+ backlist titles that also continue to steadily earn, it adds up.

I can't speak for those with larger publishers, and I'm no authority on advances. In my career (roughly six years), I've had maybe $1,500 in advances because most of my publishers are royalty-only. But with a large and growing backlist (I release 10-15 books per year), those royalties add up to a much better income than I anticipated when I went into this. I know quite a few authors who are in the same boat.

Fruitbat said:

I am not sure I'd consider writing full time for a living exactly living the dream anyway. It seems to me a dream existence includes getting to do pretty much whatever you feel like doing, not having to produce publishable work on a regular schedule in order to stay afloat.

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I enjoy it. I've gone through periods where my workload got out of control (too many deadlines in a row, real-life delaying one of those deadlines, all the deadlines snowball, stress gets high, etc). In fact, last year, I managed to work myself into the ground to the point my immune system collapsed and I spent the latter part of 2014 fighting off pneumonia. That's because I over-committed myself and didn't make allowances for shit happening. Being a workaholic is no healthier in this business than in any other, I found out the hard way.

Now, my workload is much more manageable, and I'm enjoying it a lot more now. Though I never actually stopped enjoying the writing -- I was just too stressed about deadlines. So I reworked my schedule, spread out my deadlines, and made my entire job, like, sane. That's something I've never been able to do at a day job -- rejig everything to lower my stress level and keep me from tearing my hair out.

And I know, I just painted a not-terribly-flattering picture of the writing life, but as I said, that had more to do with being a workaholic (and having shitty time management) than being a writer. I've overworked myself and burned myself out at day jobs too, with much less freedom to readjust everything for my health and sanity.

Being on a regular schedule, expected to produce something publishable on a regular basis, is actually not that stressful for me. I thrive in that -- having a writing plan and a release schedule is perfect. Yeah, there's pressure. I'm okay with that. Yeah, sometimes I have to work on one project when I'd really like to be working on another. I'm okay with that too -- the other project will still be there when this one's done.

Overall, yes, I'd say being a full-time writer is, for me, living the dream. I have to keep my workaholic tendencies under control, but the job itself, and all the pressure and frustration that comes with it, is the best thing I've ever done. Even on the absolute worst day -- when I'm getting hit with shit reviews, hardcore edits, a book I don't feel like working on, and burnout's creeping in -- I have never once thought, "You know, I could totally be doing something else right now."

Basically, it's not all sunshine and roses, and sometimes it is definitely a REAL job, complete with stress and bullshit. It's definitely not for everyone.

But for me, the worst day as a full-time writer is still better, by far, than the best day I spent in customer service.

thethinker42 said:

I keep hearing this too, but it doesn't match what I'm seeing in reality IF you include digital first/epublishers/small publishers/self-publishing. I've had some conversations about this subject with authors at conferences, and it tends to be divided into two factions: the NY authors who are frustrated with shrinking advances, and the ebook authors who are watching their income steadily rise as their backlist grows.

The backlist is a huge part of that. When your books don't go out of print, they stay out there and keep making money. I have a book that came out in 2009 and still earns $1-2K a year. Another came out in 2010 and consistently earns about $100 per month. Not a ton of money by any means, but when you figure in the other 70+ backlist titles that also continue to steadily earn, it adds up.

I can't speak for those with larger publishers, and I'm no authority on advances. In my career (roughly six years), I've had maybe $1,500 in advances because most of my publishers are royalty-only. But with a large and growing backlist (I release 10-15 books per year), those royalties add up to a much better income than I anticipated when I went into this. I know quite a few authors who are in the same boat.

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As a writer with a digital-first book deal, this is very promising to read. Just curious, for your books that have been out a while and are still bringing in the money: Are you actively promoting them? Or are these sales just coming in on their own through word of mouth and people who are fans of your newer work?

But for me, the worst day as a full-time writer is still better, by far, than the best day I spent in customer service.

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Oh God yes. If you added up all the "stressful moments" as a professional writer over the years I've been doing it, they wouldn't even compare to one day at a retail job. I feel incredibly blessed. I sleep as late as I want, do what I want, can go anywhere I want, no one tells me how to dress/act ... It's total freedom!

andiwrite said:

As a writer with a digital-first book deal, this is very promising to read. Just curious, for your books that have been out a while and are still bringing in the money: Are you actively promoting them? Or are these sales just coming in on their own through word of mouth and people who are fans of your newer work?

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I rarely promote the older books. I have to promote the newer ones, and don't want to clutter up my social media feeds, so the old ones, well...they don't get a lot of active promo.

Also, ongoing series are their own promotion. I have a series that's been going since 2010, and every time I add a book (every 18 months or so), the previous ones jump.

Oh God yes. If you added up all the "stressful moments" as a professional writer over the years I've been doing it, they wouldn't even compare to one day at a retail job. I feel incredibly blessed. I sleep as late as I want, do what I want, can go anywhere I want, no one tells me how to dress/act ... It's total freedom!

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Right? Retail is THE DEVIL. This writing gig is pretty sweet though.

thethinker42 said:

Also, ongoing series are their own promotion. I have a series that's been going since 2010, and every time I add a book (every 18 months or so), the previous ones jump.

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Ah! Working on book one of what will hopefully become a series right now, so that's great to hear. Thanks for answering my questions and congrats on your success.
http://www.absolutewrite.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

I've been thinking a lot lately about the luck issue. I took years to write a book, and it went on sub and didn't sell. I took six months to write another book, and it went on sub and sold rapidly. Was that because my writing improved dramatically from book A to book B? I don't think so. I certainly worked longer and harder on the former than the latter, and I still love and believe in it.

I also worked hard on B, and applied lessons I'd learned from A, so there's no way I'm willing to chalk all its success up to dumb luck. But I do think the circumstance of having it in front of the right editor at the right time made a difference, and that wasn't something I could control.

So I do feel lucky, but I've learned not to tell people that I feel lucky, because they sometimes take it the wrong way, drawing the conclusion that getting published is a pure crapshoot. Or they think I'm admitting that I just kinda vomit words on the page and hope for the best, which, nope.

I don't think there's any shame in admitting that luck is a factor. Some things are simply out of our hands -- an agent/editor's mood when they pick up our manuscript, the book happening to strike a particular note with that agent/editor (even things like the character has the same kind of cat, or drives the same kind of car, or likes the same kind of music -- I've had that happen before), what is expected to be "hot" in the coming years/months, buying patterns, other books taking off and making sales spike in a particular theme or genre (see: Harry Potter, Twilight, 50 Shades), a TV personality making an offhand comment about a book and causing it to take off, or really ANYTHING that could make a book sell (or not).

We write the best book we can, sell it as best we can, market it as best we can...but there are factors involved that come down to being in the right place at the right time. Sometimes just plain dumb luck.

To give you an example, I had a book that sold abysmally its first year. Then a reviewer on Goodreads gave it a glowing review, and apparently that reviewer is quite popular, and put the book on a number of radars. The Amazon rankings shot up, and the book went from like 100-200 copies the first year to a few thousand the second year. Three years later, it's still selling. It remains my bestselling book under that pseudonym. What would have happened if that reviewer had never happened upon my book and reviewed it? No idea. Dumb luck.

It is what it is. In this business, lightning strikes where it will -- the best thing we can do is make ourselves into lightning rods and hope for the best.

Fuchsia Groan said:

I also worked hard on B, and applied lessons I'd learned from A, so there's no way I'm willing to chalk all its success up to dumb luck.

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I think it's important to note that those on this thread saying luck is a factor are most definitely not saying it's the ONLY factor. I firmly believe you have to have an awesome book and that tiny little piece of luck just tips it over the edge. No doubt such an awesome book would have been published anyway but maybe not by that editor at that imprint of that publisher. It's impossible to know for sure and a writer will drive herself crazy thinking about all the variables and outcomes. You can have all the luck in the world, find the perfect editor on her best day looking for a superhero-in-space-romance-thriller trilogy with a protagonist named after her new puppy, but if your book is no good, it won't get published. I believe need both hard work and a little bit of luck.

thethinker42 said:

It is what it is. In this business, lightning strikes where it will -- the best thing we can do is make ourselves into lightning rods and hope for the best.

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QFT

I'm living the dream, at least for a little while, and enjoying every moment. I signed my first book contract in April 2012 and quit the day job December 2014. I've 2 books out (though rights reverted to me and will be rereleased) and 3 more under contract. It was the deal for my thriller that let me give full-time writing a go. I have my income pretty much sorted until the end of 2017 if I spend at the same rate I did when I was in my day job.

BethKLewis said:

If there was a concrete formula to it then everyone would have a book deal.

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Exactly.

Like it or not, you can only do so much.

When someone asked Elmore Leonard what kind of writing pays the best, he said, "Ransom notes."