But the reader needs to know this . . .

I know, I know, my opinion is probably going to come across as a little wishy-washy but I can see all sides in this argument. On one hand, while it's important that the writer know the history of their world, there's know need to dump it all on the poor reader, especially before they've got a reason to care about these characters/world.

But at the same time, you don't want to completely pull the rug out from under the reader. A little rug-pulling is okay, but too much and the reader throws the book against the wall in a rage. Like if they're reading what they think is a straightforward coming-of-age YA story, only to reveal in the middle of it that the heroine's puppy is a magical telepathic puppy from the planet Jupiter...yeah, I think we'd all agree that's too much. You can insert sci-fi/fantasy elements into a story, but there's needs to be buildup. It can't just come way the hell out of nowhere (you have to establish a world where said elements are a possibility) and it can't especially be suddenly revealed as a means of saving the heroine's life. That last part is called Deus Ex Machina and there's a reason it has a negative reputation.

Rules are to be broken. Write the best story you can....keep it captivating. I guarantee the reader will like it,

Best thread ever!

Coming from a non SF/F perspective. Some of my critiquers are pushing me to "get on with it". I think some of this is coming from conventional wisdom. (In romance, the hero and heroine have to meet on page 1. Exaggeration, I know, but they don't give you much more leeway than that.)

I try really hard to take advice into consideration, but every time I think about reworking the story to apply that advice, I think it will make not as good of a story. The reader needs to know what my MC's motivations are.

I think you're right that the reader does not need to know how hovercars hover silently, but they might need to know who the bad guy is and whether he has a network of allies or acts alone. I don't want an infodump of his whole political ideology and the historical events that inspired it, but there are a few things the reader does need to know.

shadowwalker said:

I think writers like to make writing more difficult than it really is. They repeat all these 'rules' and say "If you want to get published, you won't [insert favorite hate here]" and newbies swallow them hook, line, and sinker

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Yes! As a newbie, I remember it being very confusing for me. I would get a critique, learn about all these rules, then open my favorite book and see the author breaking most of them. There were times in the beginning where I wondered if these rules only applied to me or if people just hated my writing.

I've since learned that it's a bit more complicated than that, of course. It's all in how you do it. Which is why thoughtful critiques are so helpful.

Hapax Legomenon said:

The problem isn't that there's an "info dump," the problem is always that the explanation is boring. If the explanation isn't boring, then there's no problem.

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Exactly. We need info. We don't need it to come across as a dump.

shadowwalker said:

The problem is that particularly newbies get sooooo concerned about what they shouldn't be doing that they never get around to what they should be - which is writing.

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Especially for first drafts. I've felt much better since giving myself permission to write total crap during the first draft.

morngnstar said:

I think you're right that the reader does not need to know how hovercars hover silently, but they might need to know who the bad guy is and whether he has a network of allies or acts alone. I don't want an infodump of his whole political ideology and the historical events that inspired it, but there are a few things the reader does need to know.

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Regarding sci-fi technology, Turkey City Lexicon has a neat way of dealing with that problem: they call it "the edges of the idea." Or in other words, you don't need to lay out in detail how your faster than light spaceship engine works; just show how said tech affects the lives of the characters. Turkey City Lexicon is a neat resource, even if you're not writing sci-fi, so here's a link:http://www.sfwa.org/2009/06/turkey-city-lexicon-a-primer-for-sf-workshops/

I do feel though that if you're going to have a story with heroes and villains that we must know both sides' motivations if we're expected to care. Like why does the Lord of All Darkness hate spotted bunnies and embarks on a campaign to wipe them out?

Emermouse said:

Regarding sci-fi technology, Turkey City Lexicon has a neat way of dealing with that problem: they call it "the edges of the idea." Or in other words, you don't need to lay out in detail how your faster than light spaceship engine works; just show how said tech affects the lives of the characters. Turkey City Lexicon is a neat resource, even if you're not writing sci-fi, so here's a link:http://www.sfwa.org/2009/06/turkey-city-lexicon-a-primer-for-sf-workshops/

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This reminds me of a great anecdote I read about Star Trek writers. When someone asked them how the Heisenberg Compensator worked in the transporters, they responded, "Very well."

For the purposes of technology, you might also look up Sanderson's Laws of Magic. Yes, they're about magic, but they also apply to technology. The biggest takeaway is that the reader does need to know a little about how these things work if you're going to use them to solve problems in the plot.

I love this thread...