Schrodinger's Rapist and Hyperawareness

Yeah, I agree with the battery here, but still, there is something to be said for public shunning.

Williebee said:

Yeah, I agree with the battery here, but still, there is something to be said for public shunning.

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We could do that too...

Hmm. I guess I can see you guys' point. It's ironic that his post immediately followed mine about how the barometer in a rape culture is not consent, but the perceived virtue of the victim. If you will just allow me one small indulgence...

John Oberon said:

5. It was after 1 AM.

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Dude. Rape happens at all times of day and night. Grandmothers are raped in their own houses at two o'clock in the afternoon; wives are raped first thing in the morning; subordinates are raped by their bosses right after everyone's gone home on a Friday; nice churchgoing girls who haven't yet reached puberty are raped at 9:00 a.m. on Sundays by their youth pastor in the Fellowship Hall.

I suppose that rape might be slightly more frequent on weekends as it is typically a time of social engagement, and rapists are probably out and about rather than plunking around at their data entry jobs or whatever, but let me assure you: there's no such thing as Rape Hour.

I have not been raped but have been sexually assaulted. Once at 7:30 a.m., after I pulled an all-nighter to write papers, when I was wandering around a European city looking for cool things to photograph; once at 3:30 p.m., when I was giving a schoolmate a ride home; and once at 6:00 p.m., by my high school boyfriend, which I didn't know was assault at the time but in retrospect definitely was. All on weekdays. Plus maybe once on a Saturday morning at 10 a.m. or so after an outrageous party the night before, but I'm actually not sure what happened there as I was asleep. So, as a woman, who has to be worried about the possibility of rape and sexual assault (though I can think of about a thousand ways to better spend my time and mental energy, up to and including counting the blades of grass on my lawn, slowly crafting a pillow out of belly-button lint, and watching every Sylvester Stallone movie ever made), I can tell you with absolute, positive certainty: there is no raping hour. There is no, "Oh, shit! It's 12:30, and I just detected the whiff of rape in the air! Better book it home!" There is no, "I can sense the rapey clouds gather on the horizon..." There is no, "Crap, it's midnight, so I just turned into a magical talking pumpkin that involuntarily screams 'Stick it in me!' in a language that only random penises can hear." No. Just, no.

(Just out of curiosity, and I know you can't answer, but do you think all consensual sex happens at night, too? Ha, I feel sorry for you bro.)

And, you know what? Mine is a purely anecdotal case, but considering that I have spent my entire life as a night owl and frequently prowl the streets, say, on the hunt for cookies at 3:00 a.m., it is my experience that 100% of sexual assault happens during daylight hours and 0% happens at night. And I even occasionally spend those late night hours in bars, gasp, call the Morality Police. Some of those bars are even frequented by fraternity brothers (you must really be getting the vapors now; I'll grab a chaise lounge for ya). And I may even sometimes adorn myself in my fabulously slutty hooker boots with four-inch spike heels for the occasion. And yet. I have never been raped, never been sexually assaulted, never been grabbed, never been so much as looked at in a creepy, perv-o way while nipping at the hooch, in public, during the hours from 10:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m.

Not once.

And, you know what? Even if I had been, it wouldn't matter. Because as a fully grown, cognizant human being? If I want to be out at 1:00 a.m., in a bar, drinking until I can't see straight, wearing a top so low-cut that I risk a nip slip, and (consensually) grinding against every random stranger I see?

I have every right in the world to do so.

I have just as much right as you to be out at 1:00 a.m. I have just as much right as you to get drunk. I have just as much right as you to wear as much or as little clothing as I feel like, barring illegalities. And I have just as much right not to be raped while conducting my own personal business, whether that's fetching the mail, running a triathlon, or getting hammered in the most po-dunk, rathole bar I can find.

John Oberon said:

Yeah, I thought the rape thing in the newbies guide was odd. Interesting, but odd. I was reading about AW netiquette, then suddenly, rape. I am hopelessly old school, but I don't think it is yet possible to rape someone over the computer, is it?

Actually, I think that rape post acts as a black hole and pretty much obliterates any helpful netiquette rules you hoped to impart. The gravity is so lopsided...serial comma and cursing vs rape...anyone detect just a little bit of disparity there?

I had an interesting discussion about rape not very long ago with a feminist friend. She made the same car/theft analogy. "Would you blame the car owner for getting robbed? Does it make robbery right just because someone has a car with some valuables in it?"

I said, “If the car owner treats his car and valuables as if he does not care whether they’re stolen or not, why should he or anyone else be upset if they are?”

So when I read recently of a young woman raped, my compassion cooled considerably when I read these facts:

1. She was dressed scantily in short shorts and a bikini top.
2. She was in a bar.
3. The bar was in a fairly notorious part of town.
4. The clientele were fairly notorious as well.
5. It was after 1 AM.
6. She was drunk.
7. Her drunkenness enabled her to act in a, to say the least, uninhibited fashion.

Now, did that woman deserve to be raped? Of course not. Was it okay to rape her since she placed herself in such a compromising position? Nope. But absolutely, she holds some responsibility in that situation, the same as me if I were to leave my car unattended, unlocked, with the keys in the ignition, and filled with valuables in a questionable neighborhood. There is a line of stupidity and carelessness you can cross that earns you the reaction, “That’s too bad. Well, you’ll know better next time…hopefully.”

All that said, someone wondered what could be done to fight the rape culture. As a Christian, I agree with the Creator’s prescription: rape is a capital offense. I think a rapist officially forfeits his human card, and we should put them to sleep like the animals they are.

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This is why I fear having a daughter. I'm sickened by the thought that one day she might end up in a situation with someone who thinks she deserves to be raped. This is why women have to walk around living in fear, lest some man assume they're trying to get themselves raped.

If you can't control your penis after 1:00 AM, maybe you should be sterilized.

Y'all Mr. Oberon has Left the Building.

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Sorry, augmented Medi. Couldn't resist. As long as his post stood I had to say my piece, for the sake of posterity and all.

I've been reflecting lately on the "advice on how to avoid rape" arguments that tend to derail threads about sexual violence, and the well-meaning but clueless dudes who don't seem to understand that their eighteen year old daughters have intuited more knowledge about how to avoid rape than their male familyfolk (assuming they haven't had specialized training) will know in their entire lifetimes.

And since this seems to be the ongoing rape culture thread I figured I'd post this here.

The folks at Yes Means Yes, in their Predator Redux post, have the sole bit of advice that makes any sense for women to avoid rapists, as well as for men and women to spot rapists' tactics in their environments and communities.

It might help some survivors of these kinds of rapes to know that they were not stupid and they didn’t make a mistake; that they were in overwhelming probability targeted and harmed deliberately by someone who has planned and maybe practiced a routine of testing, intoxication and isolation. Survivors shouldn’t feel like suckers....

...rapists are not doing it by accident, and educating them is not going to make them stop. Telling women to walk to their cars with keys in their hands and all the other stranger rape advice deals with just the one kind of rape that is a small sliver of the total, and that has the greatest probablility of being reported and successfully prosecuted — so even if those tips were all very useful in that context, it ignores the much more common context: the serial predators that go after women they know, and use alcohol as their main tool.

Finally, while it’s easy for me as a teetotaler to say that we all shouldn’t drink, telling women not to use the social drug that this society overwhelmingly incorporates into its rituals is basically returning to a Victorian separate-spheres notion. That’s second-class citizenship, and using the threat of violence to enforce second-class citizenship is terrorism. We cannot negotiate with terrorists....

In other words, look for the tactics and interrupt the routine. Spot the rapist deliberately getting the woman drunk or angling to get the drunk woman alone in an unfamiliar place, and intervene. A guy offering a drunk woman a ride home may just be offering a ride, but if he is insistent when someone else offers a ride, this ought to raise a flag.

In the last post on Lisak’s work I said that men need to listen, and to change the culture to take away the rapists’ social license to operate. I wrote there about the language of supportive attitudes that tell the rapist he will be coddled and trusted and his victim will be rejected, interrogated and disbelieved. But there’s more, and more concrete, work to be done. Bystanders can look for the pattern and interfere with the pattern. If a guy is antagonistic towards women and places a lot of emphasis on sex as scoring or conquest, and he’s violating a woman’s boundaries and trying to end up with her drunk and alone, we don’t have to be sure what he’s doing to be concerned, and to start trying to give her exit ramps from his predatory slide.

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Bolding mine.

As a newbie I appreciated this post in the newbie guide! I do agree with it, but also I thought it was a good illustration of the idea that we don't avoid controversy but that there are better and worse ways of being political around these issues.

I am feeling I will like being part of this community. And yes I totally agree with the post!

John Oberon said:

Actually, I think that rape post acts as a black hole and pretty much obliterates any helpful netiquette rules you hoped to impart.

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Considering the existence of this guy's post and the subsequent backlash/ban, I'd say the rape post isn't a black hole, but a jerkwad trap.

The nice people, both male and female, say "Thanks for your protection of this community. It's a difficult topic and I appreciate that you broached the discussion. BTW, you handled it well." Thus they step lightly over the trap and go their merry way.

The other folks, the ones who don't have a kneejerk reaction of "rape is bad," can't leave it alone. They decide to "explain" why a raped woman was "asking for it." *Snap* the trap clicks shut. They've outed themselves as exactly the kind of person that makes this thread necessary.

Well done, AW. Well done!

I hope it's not too late to respond. I appreciate the post. I've been sexually assaulted, not raped, at the age of 13, while walking to my mother's office in the middle of the afternoon. So, the danger is real and it is ever-present. Until we brand the perpetrator as undesirable (truly), rape culture will continue.

Thank you for the guidelines and appreciate that this post was included. I actually feel better about exploring and potentially becoming a part of this forum. And reading through this thread not only appeased my curiosity but gave me a good feeling for how touchy topics are handled. Good job!

Well, an unexpected yet fascinating thread link in the newb guide.

I like it, as I like most things that delve into the minds and hearts of men and women. I didn't find the topic inappropriate as it was presented, only interesting. Until I read the moderator's post listing his/her personal motivations I presumed the reason was to toss newbs into a lively discussion to get them started.

I find myself compelled to respond to this thread for several reasons not all of which I will discuss.

First, I too was surprised to see it in the Newbie Guide but glad that it appears anywhere. It should be required reading and discussion in every household and every schoolroom everywhere.

That said, at the risk of being labeled as a victim blamer, the reality is that women have to take responsibility for their safety. I don't mean that it is ever acceptable for anyone to be raped, assaulted, harassed or even just bothered by some anger-fueled hormone-soaked moron of either gender nor is it ever the fault of the victim.

What I do mean is that "here there be tygers". Whether we like it or not it's a scary, violent world and that violence can descend on us without warning like a freight train from a great height. Even the most trivial of associations can lead someone we may not have consciously registered as being there or being "dangerous" can turn out to be sicko-pervo-freaks.

So it behooves all of us to be aware of our surroundings, the people around us and in our life. If that means that people, men or women, are upset, offended, confused or whatever then that's just too bad. Don't worry about other people's feelings when your safety or that of your children is at stake. Don't worry about causing discomfort or angst at a family function if "Uncle Henry" gives you the creeps whether you "have reason" or not. Don't worry about making a scene if a polite brush off or a direct order to someone to get the hell away from you doesn't work; make a scene, make lots of noise, draw lots of attention do whatever you have to do to end a situation and extract yourself safely. Even if it doesn't draw direct action from someone else be they bystanders, white knights or the police -- "everyone that doeth evil hateth the light" -- it often will embarrass, shame or scare the troublemaker into leaving you alone and/or running away. It also sometimes draws attention to the perp or the subject or both and might prompt previous victims to come forward, get help or at least feel less alone.

Cranky's comment about Gavin DeBecker's book The Gift of Fear is absolutely on point. Fear is our body's/mind's/spirit's way of drawing our attention to the fact that something is NOT right. Listen to it. Sometimes we have not consciously noticed signs or red flags but many times we have done so unconsciously. If the hair on the back of your neck stands up or your skin crawls, there is a reason. Stop, look around and evaluate your situation and act accordingly. I've spoken to people, usually women, on this subject and have told them; if someone or something makes you pull your purse closer to you or take it with you when you leave the room then DO NOT leave your child/aged relative/kitten/livestock in that room.

In the interests of full disclosure I should explain that I am a sexual abuse/assault and rape survivor. I was molested and raped as child by family and stranger and men and women, as an adult and while in the Navy. For military assault victims we have a nifty new acronym PTSD-MST which indicates a specific form of PTSD due to Military Sexual Trauma. How exclusive and exciting for us. My PTSD and associated complex of illnesses has layers and facets covering my entire life but is not only due to the assorted assaults; there are specific military issues that are part and parcel of it. I mention this because it informs every aspect of my world view. The hypervigilance alone takes up about 80% of my conscious and unconscious brain activity. So the concept of threat assessment is something I've been aware of most of my life.

Also, lest anyone think I am female-centric, I must say that as aware as I have been as a human being that both women and men can be sexually harassed, abused and assaulted I was frankly appalled at the number of men who have been sexually assaulted while in the service. I had no idea until I was finally properly diagnosed and got into treatment, including group therapy at the VA. And the vast majority of them were NOT victimized by homosexual men nor were they in prison.

And, at the risk of offending other women, the pain, damage, shame and stigma that these men feel is beyond the understanding of our sex. As ugly and hideous as the reality of being a female in our culture can be it is at least understandable to us. Whether we realize it or not we know it instinctively to begin with and then are taught about it and discuss it amongst ourselves. Most men have no such warning.

There is a sick double standard at work, and sometimes women perpetuate it even more than men do. We tell sick, insensitive jokes or make ugly comments too. In a way, the reality of sexual assault is easier for women to handle in that isn't unexpected. It is NEVER easy for anyone but from the day we're born we're taught that it's a possibility; whether it's "don't talk to strangers," "be home before dark," or "no means no". From age 3 to 90 women know it can happen and, while it may not be fully effective, there is a system of sorts to help women deal with and recover from it, even in the military.

However, men have almost nothing to help them understand both the possibility and the actuality of sexual victimization and assault. Other than that shadowy "stranger," who tells a young boy or man to what watch out for? Mothers tell their daughters not to sit on grampa's lap or visit their girl friend if her mother isn't home. Girls share among themselves who to avoid; "don't be alone with Mr. Perv, the english teacher". Boys don't have that sort of "network" or support system other than which coach likes to watch boys in the shower just a little too much.

Rape is about power and control. Sex is the weapon. Not gender.

auntypsychotic said:

Also, lest anyone think I am female-centric, I must say that as aware as I have been as a human being that both women and men can be sexually harassed, abused and assaulted I was frankly appalled at the number of men who have been sexually assaulted while in the service. I had no idea until I was finally properly diagnosed and got into treatment, including group therapy at the VA. And the vast majority of them were NOT victimized by homosexual men nor were they in prison.

And, at the risk of offending other women, the pain, damage, shame and stigma that these men feel is beyond the understanding of our sex. As ugly and hideous as the reality of being a female in our culture can be it is at least understandable to us. Whether we realize it or not we know it instinctively to begin with and then are taught about it and discuss it amongst ourselves. Most men have no such warning.

There is a sick double standard at work, and sometimes women perpetuate it even more than men do. We tell sick, insensitive jokes or make ugly comments too. In a way, the reality of sexual assault is easier for women to handle in that isn't unexpected. It is NEVER easy for anyone but from the day we're born we're taught that it's a possibility; whether it's "don't talk to strangers," "be home before dark," or "no means no". From age 3 to 90 women know it can happen and, while it may not be fully effective, there is a system of sorts to help women deal with and recover from it, even in the military.

However, men have almost nothing to help them understand both the possibility and the actuality of sexual victimization and assault. Other than that shadowy "stranger," who tells a young boy or man to watch out for? Mothers tell their daughters not to sit on grampa's lap or visit their girl friend if her mother isn't home. Girls share among themselves who to avoid; "don't be alone with Mr. Perv, the english teacher". Boys don't have that sort of "network" or support system other than which coach likes to watch boys in the shower just a little too much.

Rape is about power and control. Sex is the weapon. Not gender.

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Thank you so much for this. I kept silent about the childhood sexual abuse in my life for 33 years. The negative impact I experienced from being raped at age 11 saturated every aspect of my life. I have been getting therapy for the abuse for about 4 years now. I lost family members when I came out about the abuse (and no, it wasn't incest...some members of my family chose to see me as some sort of pariah because I was abused. Look up 'vampire syndrome').

It is true...the stigma men have to deal with is unbearable. Men simply do NOT get raped. We learn at a very early age to go internal. I learned over the past 4 years the exact reason we are called survivors. As I attended a couple Male Survivor Weekend of Recovery retreats, I have grown and healed. I have also seen fellow survivors lose their battle. It sometimes feels like CSA is a fatal disease, and that only the lucky survive.

I have been speaking. And I will never again be silent. I think it's getting better out there. More men are coming forward and the stigma is slowly being lifted. Believe it or not, I think the whole Penn State thing is to thank for this. It was such a red-hot topic in the headlines when Sandusky was nailed, that crisis hotlines were on fire with males coming forward and reporting abuse.

For any and all support and information on Male Sexual Abuse, the very best resource is:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/

Howard Fradkin, from this organization, was the expert who sat on the panel of Oprah Winfrey's groundbreaking 200 Men episode (which was also a great help in the fight against the stigma that male victims face). Howard's book can be found here: JOINING FORCES: EMPOWERING MALE SURVIVORS TO THRIVE

Howard saved my life.

KTC said:

I have grown and healed. I have also seen fellow survivors lose their battle. It sometimes feels like CSA is a fatal disease, and that only the lucky survive.

I have been speaking. And I will never again be silent. I think it's getting better out there. More men are coming forward and the stigma is slowly being lifted.

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Bravo!

I hope it is getting better. It's been a long time coming.

You have survived. Now you can thrive.