Schrodinger's Rapist and Hyperawareness

Wow!!! This has been a huge eye opener for me. I am newly single after 17 years and this has given me something to really think about. The links were very interesting and I'll admit ... not something I would have thought about before.
Thank you for posting it.

Now I'm going to be all like ..."Don't talk to me you, you Schrodinger rapist!

I've read a fair bit in the area, and the following links were new to me. I'm flagging them with a bit of explanation for anyone who might not have clicked through.

BunnyMaz said:

Oh, and this, too. [Schrodinger's Rapist and the Right to Intrude--on YMY Blog]

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Cranky said:

After reading through Meet The Predators, I found this link, too, which sort of helps explain why the concept of Schrodinger's Rapist even exists. [legal analysis that ends with a well-developed analogy to car accidents, musing on the role of privilege and intention]

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One can be a fine fellow with the best intentions and behave like a jackass. Intentions are not the same thing as actions. In fact, one's intentions can blind one to the effects of one's actions.

And if one's actions are criticized, it's generally a derailment to focus the reponse on intentions. The links do a good job of addressing why.

crunchyblanket said:

Now, on a certain level, it does disappoint me that they need to be able to see the effect on their own gender in order to identify with our plight, but frankly, we're all only human - and awareness is valuable, no matter how it comes about

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Speaking of which...

Psychiatric theory suggests that 19th century diagnoses of "hysteria" were in reality examples of complex PTSD. Prolonged physical or psychological abuse, rape, and/or incest can manifest as symptoms not unlike those experienced by combat veterans exposed to constant psychological stress.

Perhaps if more dudes understood that, they could contextualize it, and help to eliminate rape culture.

When I first registered a few days ago and looked through the newbie guides and saw a WHOLE SECTION ON RAPE JUST AS BIG AS THE NEWBIE GUIDE ITSELF I was a bit confused. Was I in the wrong place? Was this not a writing forum but some form of rapist rehab through prose?

I mean, I was REALLY confused as to why forum administrators felt it necessary to bombard newbies with all this information about rape. Especially when it could just as easily trigger unwanted memories when all you're trying to do is get some writing advice. I don't see why a simple section about intolerance of harassment of ANY sort would not be enough, and the follow-through of warnings and banning. I don't see hitting everyone who walks in the door with a giant sign that says "DON'T BE A PIG!" or "BE MORE CONSIDERATE!" is really gonna reach more people. And I REALLY don't understand why MacAllister feels he or any mod need to explain a damn thing to a user who is sexually harassing another user, when in fact they should be showing said harassing user the door.

That said, it is a fantastic post that has sparked some interesting discussion.

I'm confused a little?

I wish to inquire what a "Rape Article" is doing in the 'Newbie Guide' section? Should that article, perhaps, be in the Sociological/Pathological or Personal Agenda Section? Also, I saw a quote from Macallister that said "...rape jokes aren't welcome here..."---and my follow up question is; "But rape articles are welcomed..."...in the Newbie Guide Section?? I don't understand? Also, the Links sent me to articles promoting Feminism. Is that appropriate?? I've been out of the online loop for quite awhile but things may have sincerely changed. I hope we can discuss these points in a civil and respectful way? Thank You for allowing me to post and to be a contributing member. TB

BunnyMaz said:

I can't comment on the presence of the rape info in the newbie guide as it wasn't my decision but... what could be "inappropriate" about links to feminist sites? Just not sure I get your meaning, but to be fair I've been downing ginger beer all evening so I could be being scatterbrained.

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Usually I've seen only men complain about how 'inappropriate' feminism is and he said it was promoting the 'feminist agenda'. I don't get it, are they saying equality for women is bad thing? But then usually the type of men who say that, promote that society was better when women had little to no rights outside the home and that their main interests should be the family, and their husbands. Usually the same type of men who complain about the 'homosexual agenda'. This is from my experience online and offline of course.

I don't know ... 'back in my day everything was better'. I think your question is a valid question.

I'm going to reiterate what a few others have posted...

What is a 'you're probably a rapist' article doing in the newbie section?

I mean it was a really good post with excellent links, but really? In the newbies section? Especially the '1 in 16 people are a rapist' factoid. That's disturbingly close to accusing 1/16th of your membership of rape. I can't speak for anyone else, but as a survivor of both lesbian and heterosexual rape, the inclusion of that article in the 'welcome to our community' section makes me STRONGLY second guess wanting to be a member here. It turns what was otherwise a very warm 'welcome fellow writer!' feeling into a hostile and creepy PTSD paranoid help group feeling. And that's not okay.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the article, but at it's inclusion in the 'welcome, here are the rules' section.

I get that you need to emphasize, 'no sexual harassment, no rape jokes' in the newbies section, especially given the number of verbal predators lurking on the 'net, but that post has nothing to do with that rule except in small excerpts. This is especially poignant considering the part about:

Don't forget to trim the posts you're quoting so we don't all have to read the whole thing twice! You can just delete everything except for the sentence or two you want to reference.

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I'm sorry to have this be my first post, especially since I'm here hoping for advice, but I feel it's poetic and justified seeing as the first thing new people are greeted with is what it is. I realize that this post may get me banned right out of the gate, as even though I have tried to make it as non-flamey as possible, it is still kind of hostile, but quite frankly, I would be doing this or any community a great disservice by keeping quite when faced with something as offensive as this article being placed in the newbie section.

EDIT:

What's really interesting to me that the only people who've ever protested or made negative or confused objections to that post being included in the newbie guide are guys

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Well now you have a woman objecting. And given women's penchant for staying quiet about things that impact us negatively (necessitating the presence of feminism) I strongly doubt I'm really the first one.

TarnishedAngels said:

I'm going to reiterate what a few others have posted...

What is a 'you're probably a rapist' article doing in the newbie section?

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MacAllister said:

Because people often and unthinkingly bring along the cultures they're used to from other online sites. In many cases, those sites tolerate or even welcome casual references to rape, rape jokes, and general acceptance of sexual intimidation and harassment.

Over the years, I've had to explain in great detail, again and again, why that's just not okay here. I've had to explain over and over again why rape jokes aren't okay, sexual intimidation, unwanted and unwelcome online sexual advances, and casual misogyny aren't acceptable nor welcome.

In many of those cases, people have protested that they had no way to know, and they've never even heard of "rape culture" or they flat-out disbelieve in its existence.

Now nobody can pretend they weren't warned well ahead of time.

So yes. It's entirely appropriate to my way of thinking to hit everyone registering with a big "don't-be-a-pig" stick.

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I think that explains it all.

TarnishedAngels said:

I'm going to reiterate what a few others have posted...

What is a 'you're probably a rapist' article doing in the newbie section?

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See post #58. Or post #63.

ETA: Also, I read the article(s) as more nuanced than "You're probably a rapist". In fact it's not just about rapists and would-be rapists - it's also about other people and their right to feel safe and relaxed.
Plus it's about good manners - and I think we can't have too much of good manners.

I'm glad it's there. Thank you, Mac and Bunny and Phaedra Starling.

MacAllister said:

And one flounce from an offended guy, who invoked the Steubenville trial outcome, and said some rather nasty things about sluts who get too drunk to take responsibility for their own actions.

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Oh, god. By that logic if a guy falls down drunk in the street, should I just run him over because he shouldn't have been drunk in the first place?
I mean, it's ok, right? He made a mistake, so I'm justified to do something really bad to him, because he has it coming.

People are sick.

Ugh.

mccardey said:

...

I'm glad it's there. Thank you, Mac and Bunny and Phaedra Starling.

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+1

I'm glad it's there.

I'm sorry it's necessary, but it really is. And it does make it clear that AW does protect its members.

TarnishedAngels said:

Especially the '1 in 16 people are a rapist' factoid. That's disturbingly close to accusing 1/16th of your membership of rape.

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To be blunt, if AW membership is a cross-section of society, that's literally true. I'm not accusing anyone specific, or really anyone at all, but if X percent of a population has a certain characteristic, roughly X percent of a representative sample of that population will have that characteristic. That's how math works.

Moreover, if it is true that 6% of people are rapists -- which without looking it up sounds about right -- I don't see anything wrong with saying so. Non-rapists who say "OMG, she means me!" are likely to exhibit similar levels of reading comprehension elsewhere anyway; I read that and think "I am the 94%".

To both newbies, this is one of the nicest boards I've ever been on. People are polite and considerate. There's no flaming. There's no cyber-bulling.

And you know why? Because Mac and the Mods won't stand for it. And I would far rather everyone knows that upfront than have to see that kind of stuff before it's stopped.

mirandashell said:

To both newbies, this is one of the nicest boards I've ever been on. People are polite and considerate. There's no flaming. There's no cyber-bulling.

And you know why? Because Mac and the Mods won't stand for it. And I would far rather everyone knows that upfront than have to see that kind of stuff before it's stopped.

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Very nicely said, Miranda.
Only - what am I going to do with all this popcorn now?

Is it buttered? Pass it here.

mirandashell said:

To both newbies, this is one of the nicest boards I've ever been on. People are polite and considerate. There's no flaming. There's no cyber-bulling.

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This is very true. Unfortunately for me, I more or less cut my cyber-teeth here at AW. What a shock the rest of the internet is.

I bet it was! Some of the stuff that goes on out there is horrendous.

Perks said:

This is very true. Unfortunately for me, I more or less cut my cyber-teeth here at AW. What a shock the rest of the internet it.

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Yep. As a veteran of UseNet, I'm heartily in favor of our jack-booted thugs mods and their fearless leader boss mare.

You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that still comes over the transom.

Perks said:

This is very true. Unfortunately for me, I more or less cut my cyber-teeth here at AW. What a shock the rest of the internet is.

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Wait - you mean there's more internets?