The "T" Party.

Guardian

just the worst honestly
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Maybe I'll know that 'satifying' feeling someday. :) Or not. :) So long as I'm happy.
 

Caitlin Black

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Very true. :)

Personally, I think I'll be happy enough not having sex again unless I have female parts.

Since I last had sex, I've come to think of myself in feminine terms a lot more consistently. I think having sex again while I have a penis would actually depress me instead of elevate me to joy.

Of course, if the right woman came along, I think I'd take that risk of depression. I know I'm a sexual person. If I wound up in love, I think I could deal with having imperfect sex, just so long as there was that physical intimacy.
 

Guardian

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I wonder if we have any FtM? Judging by the regulars, female seems to be the way to go! Whee!

Kidding, of course. :p But I'm biased, anyway. It's all of those Cyndi Lauper songs :D

And looking back to a random page, I realized that we have more in common. I studied the occult when I was 11, and I still do but not as much. Why am I so surprised to discover more people who share that interest? I'm still not sure what is so alluring about it.
 

Caitlin Black

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I think the occult generally promises a better world, or at least a more stable or interesting one.

I know that's why I'm still interested in it, even though I'm an atheist now.
 

Guardian

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I feel the same way. I'm also living in a sort of atheist limbo. I almost want to believe in something, but there are various reasons why I can't and won't. Oh well.

Can I add that I never even knew how much more depth there was to AW? I was browsing through some threads and I felt like a newbie, learning the place for the first time all over again.
 

Guardian

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I think there's a flaw with my way of approaching it:

Like all things in life, this forum and its members can never be learned. I can only keep learning and accept that I will never, ever know everything.

I'm trying hard to keep up, though! Look at me here, like a grown-up!
 

Caitlin Black

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Yeah, I just stumbled into the Horror forum for the first time, because I had a question to ask. I felt like the new kid in school standing in front of a crowd of people at lunchtime, the seconds taken to decide where to sit seeming like hours passing.

So I did what I do when I'm feeling out of my element - I rambled. Whoops.
 

Becca_H

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I wonder if we have any FtM? Judging by the regulars, female seems to be the way to go! Whee!

I think there's something like five times less FTMs compared to MTFs, and the ones I've met tend to go into stealth very quickly. I was openly transgender at university, which lead to these guys approaching me and outing themselves, and I was like, "OMG What? I don't believe you!"

Cliff Face said:
Since I last had sex, I've come to think of myself in feminine terms a lot more consistently. I think having sex again while I have a penis would actually depress me instead of elevate me to joy.

With me, my asexuality doesn't seem to be linked to genitalia. It's more just that I don't want it. My psychiatrist once suggested that my sexuality could be subconsciously linked to genitalia, but I disagreed.

I do know plenty of non-op transgender girls (and intersex girls) who actively use their male genitalia without feeling depressed or unhappy about it, and with no intentions of ever having SRS.

I think it all varies, really. As Medievalist says, it's us who decides if we're happy or not, despite some other people who try to change that.
 

Guardian

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Five times less, eh? Hm. Could be. And just based on your post, maybe there is a personality difference? MtF are more willing to be out about it?

I've only personally (sorta) known one MtF and seen a lot of girls in school who were VERY convincingly guy-like. I didn't know them personally to tell if they were just butch or FtM. Makes me think.
 

Becca_H

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Five times less, eh? Hm. Could be. And just based on your post, maybe there is a personality difference? MtF are more willing to be out about it?

I've only personally (sorta) known one MtF and seen a lot of girls in school who were VERY convincingly guy-like. I didn't know them personally to tell if they were just butch or FtM. Makes me think.

I'm not sure how true this is, but I think society is more accepting of masculine girls than feminine guys, so less FTM people feel the need to transition. Of course, this may well be totally false. But you do see feminine boys ridiculed more than masculine girls.

I don't think whether we're out or not depends on which way we transition. It's more that MTFs pass slower than FTMs, especially if they have to grow their hair out or remove their beard.

I think it took me two years to pass, although transitioning at school plus still living in the same place means I can't leave the house without meeting people who know my gender history. Not that people care, but they still know.
 

Mara

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There are actually more non-stealth trans men than trans women in some areas. It just kinda depends on where you are. I think the numbers are probably close to equal.
 

Guardian

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Probably are equal. Too bad I can't do much more than speculate. I don't think running outside and trying to take a head count would work.
 

Shadow Dragon

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On one trans documentary I heard that ftms make up about a third of transitioners. The rest being mtfs. You do hear about mtfs a lot more often and most trans documentaries seems to be focused on mtfs, so that number is believable. Though it's probably very hard to make any sort of accurate counting on the trans community.
 

Guardian

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Might it be because "girlish" behavior in boys and biological males who want to be female is still so shocking? Whereas, a woman who wants to be a man is sort of left alone?

In other words, sexism against "feminine" qualities? Hell, I think that in this culture it's so ingrained even *I* am sexist against my own gender. Makes me sad to admit.
 

Deleted member 42

Yeah, I just stumbled into the Horror forum for the first time, because I had a question to ask. I felt like the new kid in school standing in front of a crowd of people at lunchtime, the seconds taken to decide where to sit seeming like hours passing.

So I did what I do when I'm feeling out of my element - I rambled. Whoops.

Text on the 'net is liquid.

Or, you can go back to edit you know. I don't seem capable of posting without a spelling mistake; I edit all the time.
 

Guardian

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I always want to edit my posts and add disclaimers and make things more PC even if they don't need to be. It comes from hanging around fanficrants and being attacked if you so much as say, "Chocolate ice cream is nasty" without adding, "but that's just my opinion and I'm sure that it's not actually nasty and not everyone feels that way.
 

Caitlin Black

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Text on the 'net is liquid.

Or, you can go back to edit you know. I don't seem capable of posting without a spelling mistake; I edit all the time.

Yeah, I can edit, but I tend to only do that for spelling mistakes. I edit probably half of my posts just for spelling errors.

I don't mind rambling. Generally it brings about a more in-depth conversation, provided the essence of the query has been expounded instead of simply rambling about shoes or whatever. :)
 

Ardent Kat

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You do hear about mtfs a lot more often and most trans documentaries seems to be focused on mtfs, so that number is believable.

I don't think what you hear about more often in news stories and documentaries necessarily reflects actual numbers. For instance, when people talk about "gay marriage", the images associated with the topic are almost always two men instead of two women. That doesn't indicate a greater number of gay men than women in reality; just an unfortunate example of erasure of women in media.

There's this idea that presenting an image of a man is supposed to represent both men and women. An animal whose sex we don't know will probably be referred to as "he" (unless there's some female stereotype attached to the animal like a French poodle.) A medical diagram that shows a picture of the human body is almost invariably male, even though females are equally human and equal in numbers. Nearly everything where sex is undetermined, unimportant, or supposed to include both sexes defaults to male.

Of course, transwomen are women, but the transphobic mainstream will often think of these women as people who are "really men." If media representation is any indication, people with XX chromosomes are easily to overlook and shove in the corner. So even in this case where the "male" default would accurately be transmen, FtM are still erased/overlooked because those people are "actually women, don't you know? (and who cares what they do?)"

You need look no further than the Bechdel Test to realize how often women are erased from movies (and genre novels are often just as bad.) To pass the test, all you need are 1) two women characters who 2) talk to each other 3) about something besides a man. This doesn't even insure that women play any significant role in the movie; just that they're included, and a tragically small number of movies meets this criteria.

All this is to say that it's important to realize that there's a media bias in favor of paying certain people more attention or scandalizing certain groups more than others. This has nothing to do with actual numbers or actual difficulties those groups face. It could have a lot to do with cultural bias, misogyny and erasure of certain people.
 

Caitlin Black

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You need look no further than the Bechdel Test to realize how often women are erased from movies (and genre novels are often just as bad.) To pass the test, all you need are 1) two women characters who 2) talk to each other 3) about something besides a man.

Y'know, apart from a short story I wrote that only had 3 characters, I've passed this test without even thinking about it in every story I've ever written.

I tend to go for female-heavy setups, actually. My first book had 5 women and 2 men. A good deal of the rest of my writing involves lesbians, which pretty much automatically pass the test.
 

DancingMaenid

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I wonder if we have any FtM?

I don't really identify as FTM, but I do identify as genderqueer and am more comfortable presenting as male than female these days. So maybe I sort of count. :p

It seems like the numbers of MTF vs. FTM folks depends a bit on where you look.
 

Mara

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So, I've recently gotten confirmation that I "pass" to at least some people. It was sorta funny and involved someone thinking that (old name) must be my son, but it's a long story. In general, though, I've been doing better.

Positive Side: I feel better about myself, I look better, and I'm not quite so sensitive to things. I don't cry about hating my body or about transphobic remarks anymore. They annoy me, but I don't get so upset.

(EDIT: Also, I look younger by at least five years, maybe more when you factor in that I used to be seen as older than I really was. I'm happy about the change.)

This is shorter than "negative side" but outweighs it by such a huge amount. It's just not that complicated and comes down to, "I feel great!"

Negative Side: Yesterday, I realized that the reason I'd been aimless for a week or so was that transition was no longer my entire life. It's good, but now I've got to find other uses for my mind.

I've also realized that I had more lingering privilege than I thought, and it's kinda embarrassing that I didn't realize how much I had.

Now that I can "blend," and slipping back into total conformity is an option, it's a little harder to resist. I will, because I never, ever want to feel like I have to hide who I am, ever again, but I finally realize why some trans women go "deep stealth."

For the first time, being gay is probably going to be a bigger deal than being trans. And I'm actually rather femme looking now, so many people seem to assume I like men, even if they know I'm trans. (Whereas before, they'd assume I liked women, even if the knew I was trans.) There's a slight pressure not to say anything, or to use gender neutral pronouns for my girlfriend. Standard "how do I want to phrase it in this particular social setting?" issue that most gay and bi people seem to have to deal with. I'm glad I've gotten to this point, even though it's a little scary.

I also never thought I'd run into that "femme invisibility" thing, but it seems I am, and it's bothering me a little for some reason. I always thought if I had a problem with being read as straight, it would be lingering homophobic programming from being raised as a guy, but it's actually more about feeling like I'm slipping back into my old habit of pretending to be what people assume I am. I really love being able to be femme, because that's what comes naturally to me. But I always imagined myself being obviously LGBT no matter what, so I wasn't mentally prepared for this.

So, yes, I'm basically whining about, "Being gay is hard, some people act weird about it," as if I hadn't known that already. I mean, I totally did. And people looked at me funny when I looked like a guy dressed in sorta feminine clothes, and I used to get read as a gay man sometimes even before that. But now that I don't look quite so obviously trans, I get that different sort of thing where people are surprised (and didn't believe me, in one case) if they find out I like women and not men. It's surreal more than anything, at this point.

Also, I'm still not totally confident on how well I blend, and I think some people still might read me as trans, so that makes going to the bathroom a little scary.

Overall, though, it's more surreal than scary, and I'm so happy I've gotten this far.
 
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