I would agree with this. Sometimes it's just necessary to have a lengthy speech. In this case, I'd give the reader a visual break with paragraphs of varying lengths so it's not one clump of text.
Breaking up a long speech?
- Thread starter Lunatique
- Start date
- Status
I would agree with this. Sometimes it's just necessary to have a lengthy speech. In this case, I'd give the reader a visual break with paragraphs of varying lengths so it's not one clump of text.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 327
- Reaction score
- 23
- Location
- Lincoln, CA
- Website
- www.ethereality.info
I find it interesting that the length of the speech seems to make people automatically assume it's boring. What if it's an exciting speech that will completely alter the course of human civilization, involving high-level assassinations and altering the laws of physics as we know it? Maybe that's not very exciting to some of you, but to me and the kind of reader I'm writing for, it is exciting stuff (the subject matter, not the fact it's a long speech).
Anyway, I got the answer I was looking for from some of the helpful replies (thanks!), and I'm already in the middle of rewriting the scene. I think the rewrite will have a better sense of pacing and cohesion.
Anyway, I got the answer I was looking for from some of the helpful replies (thanks!), and I'm already in the middle of rewriting the scene. I think the rewrite will have a better sense of pacing and cohesion.
I think people are assuming your long speech will be boring because they will have to read it, not listen to it being delivered with masterful oratorical skills. And I think you are not paying enough attention to the needs of your readers in this regard.
As a reader, I am extremely interested in a story where the course of human civilization is completely altered, it involves high level assassinations, etc. But I am not particularly interested in having a character lecture me for an extended period about how all this has happened/is going to happen. That, to me, is an info-dump and will lose my interest very quickly.
As a reader, I am extremely interested in a story where the course of human civilization is completely altered, it involves high level assassinations, etc. But I am not particularly interested in having a character lecture me for an extended period about how all this has happened/is going to happen. That, to me, is an info-dump and will lose my interest very quickly.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 327
- Reaction score
- 23
- Location
- Lincoln, CA
- Website
- www.ethereality.info
Actually, the so-called "speech" takes place AFTER the assassinations and the speaker calls a meeting with his allies (who weren't informed of his decision to carry out the assassinations), explaining to them why his faction did it, what they plan to do next, and that he needs their help to carry out the next phase of the plan. That's what this whole "speech" is.
So no, it's not some stuffy, grand ego-inflation thing where he's lecturing the listeners. He's imploring them to join him in his cause, and others will raise their concerns, but he will be doing most of the talking and he will sometimes talk for a few paragraphs at once. The gravity of the topic calls for him to be serious and not just gloss over important points he has to make.
Basically, it's the hero calling on his allies to help him in his cause.
I'm not the first person to have attempted to write such a scene in a novel. There must have been others who did it and did it well, including those who did write long speeches but made them very exciting. I guess we'll see if I end up as one of the writers who managed to pull it off.
Last edited:
I don't care how exciting it is, a person standing there talking is still just a person standing there talking. "Long" is subjective, but I don't think there's anything that can't be said in a very few sentences.
We all remember The Gettysburg Address, but who remembers or cares about the two hour speech Edward Everett gave that day? Everett was the main speaker that day, and one of the most famous orators of his time, but it's Lincoln's short speech we all remember.
All those things you mention can either said in a very few sentences, or can be shown through the action of the novel.
If I want someone to tell me all about altering the laws of physics, I'll grab a copy of Scientific American, not a novel.
It's all exciting stuff if you SHOW it. It's all exciting stuff in the integrate it with the action of the novel, but a talking head is still just a talking head, however important what he says might be, and he needs to get off stage as soon as possible.
Oh bull pa-tootey. What difference does it make if it's in narration or between a pair of quotation marks? Some of the most interesting, exciting, most involved scenes in a plethora of novels has been long passages of dialogue.
It can be said in a very few sentences? Really? Go to a movie some time and identify how many long speeches are provided there. Even in summer block-buster action movies.
What gets delivered is, has been and always will be the most important thing. Action is action. But understanding comes with speech.
It can be said in a very few sentences? Really? Go to a movie some time and identify how many long speeches are provided there. Even in summer block-buster action movies.
What gets delivered is, has been and always will be the most important thing. Action is action. But understanding comes with speech.
Well, I don't rightly know, but I think you'll find most people's recommendation here hasn't been to turn this monologue into narration, it's to summarize quickly and only touch on the most important aspects and move on, or at the very least to introduce some conflict into the speech itself.
I'd be willing to accept that, but your earlier example of pages describing a sword stroke felt a little bit like unfounded anecdotal and hyperbolic evidence you made up to support your opinion, and this feels a little bit like that too. I'm not so well-read so forgive me, but I can't think of a monologue in a novel that I enjoyed more than the rest of the book.
Movies and books are completely different things.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but I think you're missing the point.
The OP sounds like he's got a scene where one of the main characters arrives, plants his feet, sums up everything that he's done so far, goes through his backstory a little bit, and then goes on to talk about what he intends to do next. This, to me, doesn't sound like a speech. It sounds like a business meeting. A history lesson followed by a sales pitch. That wouldn't be so bad, but the OP has also said that no one's really there to disagree with him or question anything he's saying, so it doesn't sound like there's conflict at all. That's why I'm worried about this scene, personally, and I think that's why a lot of people are worried too.
OP, my recommendation is to, first, post this speech on SYW so we can get a better idea of how it works and if it works.
Otherwise, I agree with the people who have said to find a way to cut from it, and find a way to introduce conflict. This sounds like a character that the reader will have been with most of the book, so do you have to go through the faction and justify all of the things he's done? I mean, it sounds like the reader will be familiar with the faction and the things he's done already, so trodding on that ground will just get boring, I'd think. And no one is disagreeing with him? Not even questioning him? Then why does he even have to justify himself? You say there's been assassinations, and no one is like "hey, what gives you the right to murder people?" The way you have described this speech so far has made it sound like a pretty big moment in the book, but if there's no challenge for the character--if he just gets what he wants and everyone goes with what he's saying--then what makes this a big moment?
If you can write a speech that will "completely alter the course of human civilization" then what are you even doing here? You should be President of the world by now.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 327
- Reaction score
- 23
- Location
- Lincoln, CA
- Website
- www.ethereality.info
Guess you'll have to read it to understand. Altering the course of human civilization is the main thematic focus of the entire series, and the speech is what kicks off the entire chain of events.
Anyway, I hate discussing writing in this manner, when the actual writing isn't being discussed because no one's read a single word of the actual scene, and all kinds of assumptions are made that are often neither accurate or justified. And no, I'm not going to post in the SYW; I prefer that level of intimacy to be with a local writing group of some sort -- the kind that meets in person regularly.
I just wanted some ideas for how I might approach the scene differently. I've gotten the answers I wanted and I've already rewritten the scene, so the problem's already solved (and thanks to everyone for the suggestions). You guys can continue to discuss this if you have strong opinions about the subject.
The on-line OED defines dialogue as "conversation between two or more people as a feature of a book, play or movie." The OP is describing a monologue, and I think finding a plethora of interesting and exciting monologues is a harder task. At the moment, the only extended monologues that come to my mind are the "weep for it" speech from A Tale of Two Cities and John Gault's radio broadcast from Atlas Shrugged. IMO, not exciting in the least; rather painful and somewhat dull.
Of course, you are the decision maker here. Good luck with both the research (if you do make an attempt to find successful examples) and the writing.
You hate raising issues of this kind? Then why raise it?
Your original question was not a request for ideas on a different approach to the scene.
You asked whether you let the characters speak for a few paragraphs at a time and there's nothing strange about that as was mentioned in pretty near the first response you received.
When folk raised the matter of content, length and possible boredom, you spent the time trying to explain how it is essential the speech be so long and kept justifying its length.
Glad you eventually found an answer to your un-asked question.
Your original question was not a request for ideas on a different approach to the scene.
You asked whether you let the characters speak for a few paragraphs at a time and there's nothing strange about that as was mentioned in pretty near the first response you received.
When folk raised the matter of content, length and possible boredom, you spent the time trying to explain how it is essential the speech be so long and kept justifying its length.
Glad you eventually found an answer to your un-asked question.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 327
- Reaction score
- 23
- Location
- Lincoln, CA
- Website
- www.ethereality.info
No, I said I hate discussing a piece of writing when the actual writing hasn't even been shown. It just feels a bit like people talking past each other sometimes. It's for this reason that I'm considering joining a local writing group, since I prefer showing actual writing in a more intimate setting. Forums are great for asking more general questions.
And you're right, I supposed I didn't specifically ask for different approaches to the scene, but in my mind, I assumed if the answer is no, then people would automatically make suggestions on how to break up the speech without using any of the methods I already described and said wouldn't quite work for my scene. And indeed, I got some great suggestions. I particularly liked the suggestion about going into the speaker's mind and have him wondering about what other characters think of his actions/methods, noting their reactions, etc. This can also provide a chance for the speaker to think about his relationship with these characters briefly.
Trying, but I can't think of a single movie that contains a long speech.
If you mean long, unbroken passages of monologue (dialogue being a verbal exchange that involves at least two characters), I have very occasionally encountered this in a novel, and always, without any exception that I can recall, have found that it doesn't keep my attention, even if the subject matter is (or should be) interesting in itself.
Last edited:
I thought of that German movie about Hitler, the one that got "translated" into all kinds of topics (the economic bubble bursting, etc.). But his speech was broken up by panning the other people's reactions, and also a few comments here and there.
But it's a movie. At least in a monologue there's something to watch too. You can't really compare a book's monologue to one in a movie.
But movies aren't books. (And still, I'd say The Lion in Winter had some pretty good speeches. I'd read that as a novel. It held my attention.)
Luna should write and then see how it worked. Truly.
It could well work.
Last edited:
True. While the person I was replying to seems to think that movies contain long speeches, in reality, movies spend even less time than books on dialogue, monologue, and the like. Everything has to fit in two-hour (give or take) time slot. Books have much more scope.
That said, long, uninterrupted passages of monologue tend to be boring to many readers.
Yes, but he was not standing at a podium delivering a status report with everyone in the audience nodding their heads in agreement, not in the movie and possibly not in the book (which I haven't read). But that sounds like what the OP was originally proposing to do. I'm glad s/he has found another way to approach it.
Last edited:
Heh. Yeah. But Hitler's rant in that movie only ran about 3 minutes, maybe a little under, and it was amply punctuated by the camera focusing on the reactions of his listeners.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 327
- Reaction score
- 23
- Location
- Lincoln, CA
- Website
- www.ethereality.info
Last edited:
There are many long speeches in literature -- everything from
"Friends, Romans, Countrymen," to
"Hold your ground, hold your ground! Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers!"
to
"Be not afeard. The isle is full of noises," to
“I can believe things that are true and things that aren’t true and I can believe things where nobody knows if they’re true or not. I can believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Beatles and Marilyn Monroe and Elvis and Mister Ed." to
"Tomb, bridal chamber, eternal prison in the caverned rock, whither I go to find mine own, those many who have perished and whom Persephone hath received among the dead."
These are successful monologues.
What makes these successful monologue?
Well, the author does not use 300 uninterrupted words to lay out factoids.
He used those words to reach into the reader's guts, grab hold, and twist.
Because fiction is not an explanation of the refraction of light.
Fiction is a blind man tilting his head back and remembering how the stars looked.
So one question the OP's post raises is -- "Can fiction have long runs of monologue?"
(It can.)
Another question -- "How do we write a compelling monologue?"
(Engage the reader emotionally.
Let the information answer a vital question the characters are asking.
Make the information shocking, unexpected, frightening, outrageous.)
Another question -- "How can I add backstory information without writing a long infodump?"
(Add the info bit by bit and only as it is needed.)
Because if one writes monologue -- or anything else -- that does not compel an emotional reaction from the reader, she's likely to let her eye skim down to the next patch of dialog where she can hope there's something interesting going on.
As they say, don't write the parts the readers skip.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2009
- Messages
- 6,004
- Reaction score
- 1,233
Then I'm not sure how we can best help.
Run this thing by your 'intimate' writing group, your betas, whoever and ask them if it works. If it does, great, if it doesn't then they would be in a better position to give you specific feedback since they've read the piece in question.
All we can do is answer general, vague questions the best we can with what scant information you deigned to give us.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2011
- Messages
- 327
- Reaction score
- 23
- Location
- Lincoln, CA
- Website
- www.ethereality.info
Like I already said, the suggestions given in the thread helped a lot and the scene has been rewritten. The matter is solved on my end. Further discussion is just for the sake of exploring the greater question of whether monologues and speeches can work in novels and how to make them compelling.
As for sharing information about intellectual property that's still in development, we all have different limits in what we're comfortable sharing in public spaces that allow anonymity. The scene in question simply gives too much away, since it's a pivotal one that establishes some of the premise, thematic explorations, the major conflicts, etc.
- Status