Describing skin tones and ethnicities...

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Is the word black offensive? I don't find the word white offensive, though I might take some offense at being referred to as a cracker. In one of my current WIPs I have two very dark skinned men which I described as black. I could have called them obsidian, but that felt a bit silly. Lighter skinned people I've referred to as tanned, as their skin is more brown than black, and with one girl I used the word nutmeg as it seemed to fit her. Normally, I try to be a bit more descriptive than just saying black or white, but for the two men I referred to as black I simply couldn't think of a more descriptive word.

If by 'lighter skinned' you mean people who are still of African heritage, just not dark black, I think you might want to avoid the use of the word 'tanned'. To me, 'tanned' means darkened by exposure to the sun, not dark from birth.
 

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My MC is shamelessly black. Fricking hot, too. :D

Honestly? I can't get into the kind of writing where appearance doesn't matter. I HATE it! If I don't receive a light character description, my huge imagination will waffle between different faces for the characters, searching, searching, searching. Like many people, I desperately need to see a face to bond with a character. Once I receive some light description that allows me to settle on a face, it's easier for me to fall into a story.

P. S. Now I'm dying to know what the hell Maestro's guy who's race isn't important looks like!
 

aruna

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It's not the skin tone or ethnicity of a character that for me is important, but their culture - how they behave, how they think, how they speak. I like diversity, and I don't like it when cultures are assimilated so much the lose their distinctive characteristics.

I recently read a book which had a black and a white girl as equal main characters. The black girl's skin colour was slipped in very unobtrusively only on one or two occasions; if this had not happened I would have thought she was white from the way she thought and behaved and spoke, the way she interacted with her family. They were completely Anglicized, and had lost any identifying characteristics showing that they were form Ghana. Obviously, the author was making the point that her skin colour was of no importance whatsoever. In fact, either one of the girls could have been the black one; though in this case the black one was also the more beautiful, the more fortunate one in every way.

I have to say, I found it a bit irritating. I know for a fact that immigrants have specific characteristics defined by their culture, and to see a Ghanian family so completely "whitened" made me think it was a white writer who had no idea. In fact, though, the writer is herself black, though I don't know if she's from Ghana.
I know that I think, behave, live in an interior world that was formed by my background, and nothing in the world will ever make me completely English; even though I adapt and play the game, I'm different. And I like to see "different" characters in books. In fact, I crave them. But it's not all about their skin colour, which I just describe the way it is. A favourite colour for me is "sapodilla brown"; I bet you don't know that! Sapodilla is a delicious brown fruit from back home. And there we have the food analogy again, but at least not a cliched one.
 
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Prawn

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Might I suggest Walter Mosley's books for an example of describing people? His cast of characters is almost exclusively black, but he doesn't use the word once. He is a master of defining characters with just a few words.
 

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If by 'lighter skinned' you mean people who are still of African heritage, just not dark black, I think you might want to avoid the use of the word 'tanned'. To me, 'tanned' means darkened by exposure to the sun, not dark from birth.

Actually, this is a fantasy and so there is no Africa. But I see your point about the meaning of the word tanned. This is only a first draft, I may have to rethink that particular description.
 

PsychicToaster

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Unless race is an issue that I need to address for something to make sense, I tend to pick one trait of a character, the one that makes them unique and describe that. It's a fantasy setting, so when I provide racial descriptions, I tie it to region, not to specific characters. For instance, my MC is exceptionally short. Her size makes a difference in how she approaches the world. I describe that most people from her part of the world are fair skinned to the point of seeing veins (my lone racial conceit, I made the MC the same "race" as me), and then leave it to the reader to infer that she likely has those traits as well.

But my book isn't about race or a conflict of race. It's about religion and nationalism, so "race" is treated lightly.

If this were a YA romance involving a high school with a number rather than a name, race may very well be a focal point and require a bit more on-the-nose description to make sure the audience understands two characters are racially distinct from one another.
 

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oh wow. It seems I'm always posting on a moldy oldy thread... but I do have a question! Well actually 2. :)

In edits the editor is complaining that I'm using different terms to describe a skin tone. To me, someone's skin changes color in different light. Is describing them in terms of the same range of shades wrong? It's not like I'm saying, he's pale white and on the next page dark as the night.

Also, what would be good descriptors for a Mumbai male's lip color? I had sooty red but that got nixed because i was told it didn't match burnt-caramel skin. Well, I wonder if I need to stick to a more brownish color for the lips. Yet don't we all think of lips as reddish in nature?

Thanks,

Eva in a quandry
 

BethS

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oh wow. It seems I'm always posting on a moldy oldy thread... but I do have a question! Well actually 2. :)

In edits the editor is complaining that I'm using different terms to describe a skin tone. To me, someone's skin changes color in different light. Is describing them in terms of the same range of shades wrong? It's not like I'm saying, he's pale white and on the next page dark as the night.

Also, what would be good descriptors for a Mumbai male's lip color? I had sooty red but that got nixed because i was told it didn't match burnt-caramel skin. Well, I wonder if I need to stick to a more brownish color for the lips. Yet don't we all think of lips as reddish in nature?

Thanks,

Eva in a quandry

Maybe the lip color doesn't need to be described. And maybe you're overdescribing the skin color, if you feel it needs a new descriptor every time the light changes. (You may not be doing that at all, but if your editor has mentioned there's a problem, there probably is.)
 

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... if you mention the lighting and say how it is making the character's skin color look like such then that would be fine I'd say though you could probably only do that once during the course of a novel. Her skin took on an orange tinge result of the sun, etc. If you leave that out than readers may get confused. She was described this way on pg 10 and this way on pg 30. Huh ?

Gotta watch your adjectives: sooty, burnt. May cause offense. They're not the most flattering words when describing skin tone. Ashy would be another such. It's your call though.

It's okay to disagree with an editor so long as you've got a good reason. Perhaps you have.
G'luck.
 

Putputt

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oh wow. It seems I'm always posting on a moldy oldy thread... but I do have a question! Well actually 2. :)

In edits the editor is complaining that I'm using different terms to describe a skin tone. To me, someone's skin changes color in different light. Is describing them in terms of the same range of shades wrong? It's not like I'm saying, he's pale white and on the next page dark as the night.

Also, what would be good descriptors for a Mumbai male's lip color? I had sooty red but that got nixed because i was told it didn't match burnt-caramel skin. Well, I wonder if I need to stick to a more brownish color for the lips. Yet don't we all think of lips as reddish in nature?

Thanks,

Eva in a quandry

Hrmm...I think it's a given that everything (not just people, but literally everything) looks different under different lighting. So I don't see the need to mention that "her skin looks golden under sunlight, but under moonlight, it looks darker, somewhat blue-ish". It's kind of a given, no?

As for lips...for some reason I feel a bit uncomfortable with "sooty red"...I dunno. I think very few people actually have "red" lips. I would describe my lip color as pale and sickly because I'm anemic. Mr. Putt's lips are...hrmm...a shade darker than the rest of his face. But rather than the color, I prefer to focus more on the shape of the lips. Whether they're "plump", "thin", or even "cracked" would make the image of the person come alive in my mind more so than the color would.
 

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Mr. Putt's lips are...hrmm...a shade darker than the rest of his face. But rather than the color, I prefer to focus more on the shape of the lips. Whether they're "plump", "thin", or even "cracked" would make the image of the person come alive in my mind more so than the color would.

I'm a color photographer. The color of everything is important in every pic I take, but writing is not color photography.

I couldn't agree with Putputt more regarding shape--often more indicative than color.

If skin color isn't important to the story then it probably shouldn't be mentioned. It's not important in my WIP so I don't mention it. It is important to the story I'm currently reading though, The Girl Who Fell From the Sky - Heidi W. Durrow. The entire story revolves around skin color, so it gets mentioned. I've only read the first chapter so far but I'm sure skin color gets mentioned frequently throughout the novel.

The ethnicity of characters in my WIP is important but I choose to describe them in ways other than skin color--religion, clothing, speech, behavior, etc. I think those attributes are more indicative of who they are as people than mere skin color.

Color is a good thing to splash into stories. It can make the imagined world come alive for the reader, but I think skin color is over rated as a means to describe who a person is.
 

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Race and ethnicities need only be considered in the cultural context of the world your writing.

In a futuristic setting like Battle Star Galactica, where gender and race are non-issues, mentioning it is borderline frivolous.

In a romance novel, physical appearance is very important, including skin, hair and eye colour. In other works of fiction, many authors leave out these descriptions.

In an 18th century novel where racial issues severely affected one's status, we can learn alot about our character's 'place' in their society.

In a modern context, race can be important, especially if it's set in an area of ethnic tensions, or stories about immigration, or showing the world from a different cultural perspective.. If it's set in a progressive society where races are not perceived differently, is it worth focusing on?

The danger of not mentioning race in media is that it risks becoming taboo. There's no shame in describing your MC's race just because you want to, but overly poetic cliches such as chocolate skin or marble skin is a bit much outside of a romance story/scene. Also exoticness is relative. A friend of mine from southern Africa laughed when a local Irish guy told her she's "so exotic". To her, that word made her think of Asia or the Caribbean or something!

No shame in being direct about it but if it can be hinted at in a more subtle way then that's probably better, as long as your readers are not left in doubt.
 
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little_e

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oh wow. It seems I'm always posting on a moldy oldy thread... but I do have a question! Well actually 2. :)

In edits the editor is complaining that I'm using different terms to describe a skin tone. To me, someone's skin changes color in different light. Is describing them in terms of the same range of shades wrong? It's not like I'm saying, he's pale white and on the next page dark as the night.

Also, what would be good descriptors for a Mumbai male's lip color? I had sooty red but that got nixed because i was told it didn't match burnt-caramel skin. Well, I wonder if I need to stick to a more brownish color for the lips. Yet don't we all think of lips as reddish in nature?

Thanks,

Eva in a quandry
People reading a book are liable to just forget that colors change in different lightings, or even that there are different lightings. If the color's important to the moment, just include a mention of the lighting.

I don't know how folks in Mumbai like to describe lip colors, but generally I associate "red" lips of any kind with women. Women tend to have slightly paler skin than men, leading to higher contrast between their facial skin and eyes/lips, often accentuated with cosmetics. Men's lips tend to stand out less, which is why they're generally drawn lipless in cartoons. So, personally, I'd just skip describing a guy's lip color unless he wears makeup or I want to emphasize his effeminacy. Of course, things may be very different in Mumbai.
 

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Thanks everyone. Good food for thought!

Yes, on a lot of Indian nationals the lip color isn't that much different from the skin color so perhaps shape is what's needed. This is definitely a story where race matters. It's set in Mumbai and the male is a prostitute. I guess you could say class matters much more than race but there's only so many times you can describe an empty pocket!

Hugs

Eva
 

gothicangel

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Great thread, and something that has been on my mind recently.

It's not the skin tone or ethnicity of a character that for me is important, but their culture - how they behave, how they think, how they speak. I like diversity, and I don't like it when cultures are assimilated so much the lose their distinctive characteristics.

Agree 100% with Aruna. My new WIP is set in Roman Judaea, and having a devilish time researching Jewish history and culture, as I don't want my Jewish characters to come across as similar to my Roman characters but with a different skin tone and language (and to make things worse my sister who studies theology and Hebrew, she keep saying 'your character wouldn't say that/ do that.') I want to emphasise the 'difference' between my Romans and Jews not only in their cultures and skin tone, but also in their language. In my previous book I differentiated my Latin speakers from non-Latin by not using contractions (yes, I know Classical Latin has contractions.) But in this one I wanted to make my Jews sound different again, and I was stumped how to do this grammatical, asking my sister how I could do this in English, and basically I couldn't. So I started to think. If anyone remembers the BBC production of I, Claudius from the '70s, I love the voice of the actor who played Herod, and wondered about how I could capture that richness on the written page. Then it occurred to me how much I loved post-colonial poetry at university, and thought 'that's it, I go back and re-read poetry and make it more poetic than how my Romans speak.

I have a favourite quote from Rosemary Sutcliff about how she did just this:

I try to catch the rhythm of a tongue, the tune that it plays on the ear, Welsh or Gaelic as opposed to Anglo-Saxon, the sensible workmanlike language which one feels the Latin of the ordinary Roman citizen would have translated into. It is extraordinary what can be done by the changing or transposing of a single word, or using perfectly usual one in a slightly unusual way: ‘I beg your pardon’ changed into ‘I ask your pardon.
 

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Descriptions are not my strongest suit. I used to leave them out completely, but my publisher asked me to put them in enough times that I've gotten in the habit of getting them over with upfront. I tend to keep them short and one-time, though. Here’s how I’ve described the race or ethnicity of some of the character in my novels:


--Coach Harley puts a thick, dark hand on my shoulder. "Calder." I turn and look into the murky brown eyes of my assistant. I see there again the galling pity and something else, something I can’t quite read.

-- Tommy is lanky with a shock of black hair that contrasts boldly with his pale skin.

--Malcolm, a burly African-American guy who looks like he should be a linebacker instead of the second best marksman on Grant's rifle team, says, "What about self-defense?"

--Cory and O are identical twins, but, as they got older, Cory cut his hair short and tight and O grew his long and weaved it into dreadlocks. They both have the same mocha skin, a beautiful combination resulting from their Ethiopian mother and Scotch-English father, and the same arresting, green-brown eyes. They're the same height, of course (medium tall), but their builds are different – O has that lean body from swimming, and Cory’s legs have grown muscular from the years he spent playing soccer.

-- "What’s up?" the tall, thin one asks, but he isn’t the one who interests me. I turn instead to the sturdier, darker-skinned boy, whose short, tightly curled hair looks a little uneven around the ears, like he’s shaved it himself. "You go to Calvert High?" I ask him.
 

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You're side-stepping to avoid problems that aren't there. No one will look twice if you say someone is black instead of "African-American heritage".

Edit: Stephen King uses racial slurs all the time. No one cares that he's a white author using the n-word because its a book and it shouldn't be toned down because of the author.
 
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Ellis Clover

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Asians are Asians and Chinese are Chinese. Russians can be anything, it’s a vast country.

I'm not sure I understand you? Asia is a continent of more than 50 countries - China is one of them, as is, technically, much of the Middle East. In terms of the traditional appearances we associate with the people from each of those countries, I'm sure you'd agree that 'Asian' is not a great writerly descriptor.

I agree with you that identifying a person's heritage is rarely necessary, and in fact, it's something I nearly always notice in books (and cringe at) because it's usually so gratuitous. 'Othering' of any kind, assuming it's not self-aware or a deliberate way of developing character via racist/problematic POV, is a massive turn-off to me as a reader (especially because white characters in western literature are so overwhelmingly pitched as the default, ie not described as 'white'). If a character's skin colour or ethnicity is irrelevant to the story, I don't want to read about it.

EDIT: Oops, just realised how old this thread is! LuckyH, if you don't reply, I will understand. ;)
 
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Sirion

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I know in Harry Potter, JKR described Lee Jordan as a boy with dreadlocks, and as we see in the movie, he's Black.

J.K. Rowling also explicitly calls Kingsley Shacklebolt black.

“Yeah, I see what you mean, Remus,” said a bald black wizard standing furthest back - he had a deep, slow voice and wore a single gold hoop
in his ear - “he looks exactly like James.”
There are a few ways to get the information out there. I prefer to just say it when it becomes relevant. On the other hand, there are several complexions which are considered black. If you're trying to get across that the person has a particular ethnicity, then you might want to be more specific.

I am of mixed race, white and black, and I've always described my skin as "carmel" colored.
 
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gothicangel

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Sirion;[SIZE=2 said:
8564497[/SIZE]]
I am of mixed race, white and black, and I've always described my skin as "carmel" colored.

Interesting point, even though both my parents are white, somewhere in the past centuries someone in my family married someone from Portugal, hence I look very Mediterranean, black hair and olive skin. Now my sister, she looks like a typical Gael bright red hair and pale skin. You wouldn't believe we have Viking DNA. ;)

 
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