Tolerance of Expletives in Novels

Maybe it was.because I was a sailor and it seemed every other word was a curse word that I've grown tired of it. Maybe I'm just a prude, although I do swear in real life when angry, in ordinary conversation I avoid it.

But in writing? None of my characters swear. It seems like a struggle to me to get them to swear. Writing curses just doesn't come naturally and they seem forced.

And as far as reading, they always take me out of the story. I'm back in the Navy listening to some 18-year-old thinking the more "Fucks" he uses in a sentence, the more manly he is. I tried reading Scott Lynch but was put off half way through and I've not even tried GRRMartin (although not because of the swearing, but because he kills all his characters off).

Shadow_Ferret said:

of the story. I'm back in the Navy listening to some 18-year-old thinking the more "Fucks" he uses in a sentence, the more manly he is. I tried reading Scott Lynch but was put off half way through and I've not even tried GRRMartin (although not because of the swearing, but because he kills all his characters off).

Click to expand...

I was 19, thank you very much!!!

Seriously, I'm still trying to remove the effects of the Navy on my day to day language all these years later. I'm kind of jealous you managed.

Lego Bono said:

She responded saying authors have an essentially endless treasure of words to use in the English vocabulary without having to resort to expletives.

Click to expand...

How tiresome.

Yes, we do have access to an endless treaure of words -- Some of which would get you sent to the principal's office in school.

When the most powerful vampire in the Rocky Mountain Region, who fought with the French Resistance in WWII finds that her lover of over 50 years was an SS guard, she WILL call him a "fucking Nazi bastard" before she plunges a stake into his heart. She will not take the time to compose something eleoquent in order to convey less offense to the delicate reader.

It's been rare to not hear curse words in everyday conversation since I was in high school. The more people I meet in the world, the more I realize it's apart of life. Now, I'm not saying it's necessary, but I would find dialogue between certain types of people unbelievable if they never said a word or two that was colorful.

Granted, if you were writing a spiritual book or a children's book, I would advise you to leave as much colorful language out as you possibly can.

TomKnighton said:

Seriously, I'm still trying to remove the effects of the Navy on my day to day language all these years later. I'm kind of jealous you managed.

Click to expand...

Bah. I'm jealous of your vocabulary!

Brightdreamer said:

Yep, it's a matter of tone and character.

That said, I personally find expletives work best as an exclamation point. Use them judiciously for effect, otherwise they turn invisible... then rapidly become annoying.

You can always imply cursing - "He swore under his breath." "She shouted in my face for a full five minutes, not only questioning my eyesight and masculine genitalia but drawing several crude comparisons between my ancestors and various species of space vermin." - without actually resorting to the words themselves, saving those for emphasis. The imagination often produces more colorful phrases, anyway...

Click to expand...

I agree with implied cursing and the resulting placement of emphases. It's usually a more comic method.

There are one or two places in some of my stories where a minor character exclaims something like "Get the Fuck out of my Truck!" and I find it very satisfying.

I don't think I've written a single novel with our at least one curse. It comes naturally in my everyday speech (but it isn't littered with it). Every so often a curse comes out with no attention drawn to it. That's how I write as well. The adults in my life always cursed around me, my friends' parents, my parents. There are a few people I do not curse around. But I have to really think not to.

Myrealana said:

When the most powerful vampire in the Rocky Mountain Region, who fought with the French Resistance in WWII finds that her lover of over 50 years was an SS guard, she WILL call him a "fucking Nazi bastard" before she plunges a stake into his heart. She will not take the time to compose something eleoquent in order to convey less offense to the delicate reader.

Click to expand...

That's the problem with today's society. No eloquent speeches. Nothing timeless. Nothing quotable. Instead of satisfying and fullfilling mutlicourse meals we get fast food.

A beautiful, heart-felt, emotional monologue filled with meaning and an eternity of lovers angst that is then followed with "die you fucking Nazi bastard" would, in my mind, really resonate.

Brightdreamer said:

"She shouted in my face for a full five minutes, not only questioning my eyesight and masculine genitalia but drawing several crude comparisons between my ancestors and various species of space vermin."

Click to expand...

Loved this.

johnhallow said:

Ditto what everyone else said.

Just for the record, I'm in the "usually okay with anything" camp, but even I'll get pissed off if the story drops the F bomb every other page.

Click to expand...

You should read something by Chuck Wendig. The way he uses colorful (and I mean colorful) profanity practically all the time is simply genius.

I have nothing against swearing in fiction, if it fits the story and characters. It must serve a purpose -- express a character's mood, personality, attitude toward something, or otherwise support the theme and general feel of the story.

The most important thing for me is that the author use cuss words intelligently, and not blindly.

Swearing every other page is fine. Swearing every page, for me, is fine.

Swearing every other word, however, really bothers me. That's slightly exaggerating, but when I read something that has curses in just about every sentence, it starts wearing thin. It's not because it's even "offensive," but more because the word's been used so much that it tires the reader and makes your work lose any originality.

I personally despise words like "frak" and "frup" and "oh sugar". If you're gonna cuss then fucking cuss. Alternatives like that just sound stupid. Unless its to show a character that goes out of their way not to cuss for one reason or another.

As for the "limited vocabulary" excuse, that's stupid too. Sometimes the best word for the occasion is an expletive. If they were so "useless" we wouldn't use them so often and people wouldn't try to invent special words for them (as if using a cuss word with letters changed means you're not cussing).

Jacob_Wallace said:

I personally despise words like "frak" and "frup" and "oh sugar". If you're gonna cuss then fucking cuss. Alternatives like that just sound stupid.

Click to expand...

Amen.

To me it's characterization. Some of my characters never curse (and if a bad word slips out of one of their mouths you know the situations bad!). Some of my characters swear like sailors.

The ones who do cuss differ with what words are their go-tos, too.

Jacob_Wallace said:

I personally despise words like "frak" and "frup" and "oh sugar". If you're gonna cuss then fucking cuss. Alternatives like that just sound stupid. Unless its to show a character that goes out of their way not to cuss for one reason or another.

As for the "limited vocabulary" excuse, that's stupid too. Sometimes the best word for the occasion is an expletive. If they were so "useless" we wouldn't use them so often and people wouldn't try to invent special words for them (as if using a cuss word with letters changed means you're not cussing).

Click to expand...

Hear hear. I don't mind some made-up swear words if they make sense in the context of the world or culture they're occurring in, or softened "granny" swearing if it's true to the character. But "hard" swearing is a real thing real people do (lots of people from lots of walks of life), and crude references to bodily functions or sexual practices are not unique to the twentieth century either. A story where every single character uses "soft" swearing seems contrived, as if they writer is afraid to show it.

If I was writing for a market where swear words aren't acceptable, rather than "bleeped-out words like "frack" or "shoot" when that's not what the character would really say, simply telling us "he swore richly," or "Dad muttered a word that would have gotten him in the dog house, if Mom had heard" works fine.

As a practicing Mormon, a religion that puts an emphasis on using clean language. I very rarely swear. (I used to swear a lot when I wasn't practicing.)

But because I have personal objections to it, doesn't mean that my characters do. One is a US Marine, and swears at least once a sentence. Other characters, like the one who is a Duke rarely swear.

To be honest, if I saw a Marine in a story say "Well, that makes me gosh darned sad." I would find it out of place, and jarring, where I wouldn't notice "That M)*&*^(F(&)n son of a B*(^& has pissed me off for that last time." as being special with that character. But if a Monk said that, the situation better call for it.

All in your character.

I use it where it's called for, where it fits a character or situation. I don't really use it for the sake of using it, it tends to end up being just vulgar when used excessively, in my opinion (with the rare exception).

slhuang said:

To me it's characterization. Some of my characters never curse (and if a bad word slips out of one of their mouths you know the situations bad!). Some of my characters swear like sailors.

The ones who do cuss differ with what words are their go-tos, too.

Click to expand...

I'm reminded of an exchange from one of the Harry Dresden books.

Harry: "Oh shit, hell hounds."
Michael: "Harry, you know I don't like that kind of language."
Harry: "Sorry. Oh shit, heck hounds."

That just wouldn't work if Harry said "Oh sugar!"

Brightdreamer said:

"She shouted in my face for a full five minutes, not only questioning my eyesight and masculine genitalia but drawing several crude comparisons between my ancestors and various species of space vermin."

Click to expand...

Or as ...I think it was Heinlein... put it most generically, a series of comments about your "habits, morals, ancestry, and probable destination", a phrase I still use occasionally.

Shadow_Ferret said:

A beautiful, heart-felt, emotional monologue filled with meaning and an eternity of lovers angst that is then followed with "die you fucking Nazi bastard" would, in my mind, really resonate.

Click to expand...

This gives me an idea... mind if I yoink?

I think there's a balance. A good f-word in the right place, especially dialogue and inner thoughts, can really enhance a characterization and give a particular tone to a work.

That being said, a Malcolm Tucker from The Thick of It in every book is going to get old fast.

What really would annoy me, personally, is the substitution of swearing with euphemisms. Shoot, dang, dern, fiddlesticks, flicking, etc. really throw me out of a book, unless the character was like my mom, and even then...I'd rather not.

Hm, I seem to have a problem here.

I do have a character who swears pretty much every other word. Most of it is directed at himself because he hates himself. And he's also very close to the viewpoint and other characters and it's hard to imagine that this would not rub off on the people around him. To keep that balanced there is a lot of swearing in the story. It can probably be cut down, but still.

The other problem is that because of the way the society is that I've been trying to cut out all blasphemous swears (I know there are still some in the MS but I'll weed them out) and I have no idea how to replace them. Well I guess I have the idea of going a more Dutch route with their swearing but that does not seem like it would go well.

Rocco: Fuckin'- What the fuckin'. Fuck. Who the fuck fucked this fucking... How did you two fucking fucks...

Rocco: [shouts] Fuck!

Connor: Well, that certainly illustrates the diversity of the word.

--Boondock Saints

Click to expand...

bearilou said:

--Boondock Saints

Click to expand...

And that snippet also demonstrates how when you need to cuss, nothing else will quite get the message across, nor move at the same pace.