Tolerance of Expletives in Novels
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I just finished my first fantasy novel and I decided to write the whole thing without using the F word. It wasn't easy, believe me. I few awkward "friggins" had to go in there at points.
And then it crossed my mind during the second draft that this is a book featuring, among other themes, attempted rape, torture, murder, and in the first chapter, free use of the word 'penis'.
Was the F word ban utterly pointless? I'm starting to wonder.
And then it crossed my mind during the second draft that this is a book featuring, among other themes, attempted rape, torture, murder, and in the first chapter, free use of the word 'penis'.
Was the F word ban utterly pointless? I'm starting to wonder.
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Only you can say. Is there a reason you were avoiding the F word? It's certainly not missing from the recently published fantasy I've read. But maybe it's not allowed by some specific publishers or for YA?
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I agree that sometimes a character needs to curse, when there's nothing else clear in one's mind but the driving need to express something.
But I think most of the rest of the time, when it's used for seasoning, there's probably usually a better choice. If nothing else, try forcing yourself to write it without an expletive the first time. The process of thinking through how to get the emotion across without it will probably result in better writing. And you can still add one later.
But I don't think there's any point in replacing "fuck" with "frick."
But I think most of the rest of the time, when it's used for seasoning, there's probably usually a better choice. If nothing else, try forcing yourself to write it without an expletive the first time. The process of thinking through how to get the emotion across without it will probably result in better writing. And you can still add one later.
But I don't think there's any point in replacing "fuck" with "frick."
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By way of £0.02, if I came across a character whose response to attempted rape, torture, or murder was "frig", I think I'd scoff so hard my head would fall off.
Personally, I also opt to avoid real word curses, but I try to make it clear that there's an equivalence. Seeing a character mutter "Heynbedoek!" doesn't mean anything; if they kick the wall, punch the nearest person, or explode in a fireball as they shout it into the sky, things become a bit more obvious.
Maybe that's just me, though.
Swearing is actually pretty complicated: Language of taboo and of abuse that may overlap or not. Calling someone a shit is a taboo word and an abusive one. Piss is a taboo word, but not an abusive one. Wimp is not taboo but is a term of abuse.
Any alien culture may not always place taboo value on words of a scatological, sexual or religious nature. Imagine the insults of an alien culture that believes in eating privately by oneself.
Another fun thing is flyting, public exchanges of insults, which was a form of entertainment in 15th century Scotland and was exempt from the fines for public profanity.
Getting back to the fecking point, ultimately I think it comes down to the characters and the situation. Is the character a type to say golly or crud, or are their go-to's sonofabitch and motherfucker.
And also: http://xkcd.com/1290/
Any alien culture may not always place taboo value on words of a scatological, sexual or religious nature. Imagine the insults of an alien culture that believes in eating privately by oneself.
Another fun thing is flyting, public exchanges of insults, which was a form of entertainment in 15th century Scotland and was exempt from the fines for public profanity.
Getting back to the fecking point, ultimately I think it comes down to the characters and the situation. Is the character a type to say golly or crud, or are their go-to's sonofabitch and motherfucker.
And also: http://xkcd.com/1290/
You don't need to leave it out. A lot of recently published fantasy is very liberal with swear words and tends toward a more modern style of dialogue in general.
I'm currently reading at least two (maybe three) separate epic fantasies published in the last few years that use a wide variety of swearing. I use it in some of my stuff, though I try not to overdo it. I find it has more impact when used less frequently.
Of course, some characters just have foul mouths. If you're writing about soldiers, for instance, I'd wonder if they never swore. For authors who want to avoid our swear words, you'll get something like the treatment you see in The Wheel of Time.
If you're writing for adults, and even for the YA audience, don't worry about including them. Sometimes they're the right words. Now, if you're writing MG, that's a different story. I have to keep that in mind when I write it myself.
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Yeah, and Wendig writes YA also, and he has a lot of cussin' But publishers may vary in how much of it they like to see.
In a fantasy novel, I'd actually find words like "frick" or "frack" more distracting than an f-bomb. The made up words are substitutes, and they're very 20th century (and speak to 20th-21st century sensibilities too). If you don't have the "f" word in your fantasy world because it doesn't fit the culture, then they probably wouldn't have "softened" substitutes either. If you're going to make up swear words, make up ones that fit the culture and sensibilities of your world.
In any case, lots of swearing (including modern swear words, sometimes mixed in with made up or archaic ones too) haven't hurt sales figures for George RR Martin, Joe Abercrombie, Scott Lynch and many other fantasy writers.
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Most "modern" obscenities aren't any more more "modern" than the rest of the words we use anyway.
Very true.
Slightly off topic, but this reminded me of someone I encountered who was concerned about how accidentally portraying 'modern' sex acts, such as oral.
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I'm a tad late to this discussion, but on matters this subjective: write the story you want to write and let your readers take care of themselves.
To the OP: that particular beta probably isn't a good fit for you. Fuck 'em.
To the OP: that particular beta probably isn't a good fit for you. Fuck 'em.
I agree, I use swearing if the character calls for it.
I've never really noticed it in other books. I think the only time you'd notice is if it doesn't fit the character or the situation. Or yeah, over-used as some people have talked about here. I don't think I've ever read a book where I've thought wow, that's a lot of swearing.
I've never really noticed it in other books. I think the only time you'd notice is if it doesn't fit the character or the situation. Or yeah, over-used as some people have talked about here. I don't think I've ever read a book where I've thought wow, that's a lot of swearing.
No ancient art, but I did point out that people then had both the same orifices and the same sexualities as people today.
I admit, I do find the idea of medieval blowjobs fairly mind bending (and somewhat unpleasant), but rejecting their existence is something else entirely.
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Medieval people actually were cleaner than popular conception credits them. They had bathhouses in many locales, in fact, and they were often for both sexes. It was only when they became associated with prostitution, that they fell out of favor. Also, they were blamed for spreading disease, which was a huge worry one the plague rolled through Europe (and later diseases like syphilis).
So the concept of renaissance-era oral sex actually is squickier. But people get used to what's normal for them (in terms of cleanliness) also.
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Just thought it would make the book more 'accessible', but I didn't really think it through I guess.
I've just today started the sequel, funnily enough (whilst I wait on feedback on the first one from family and friends), and this time I'm allowing the F word where needed. 1500 words in and I've already used it twice!
I'm leaving the first book alone for the time being though, at least until said feedback returns. I'm wondering if my family and friends notice the F word's absence.
My novel is fantasy, but not the medieval LOTR kind, something closer to 19-20th century. I chose to go with normal language without archaizing the language and so the curse words appear normally and in an amount I'd expect in real life. Sure, some characters curse more, some less, some will gasp indignant when they hear "ass", but I personally dislike when the novels (for adults, children literature is obviously a different category) shy away from the use of such.
Some stories are more family-friendly and it reflects on the plot - you don't have violent murders, rapes, mass slaughters and stuff like that. I can see abstaining from the use of 'fuck' and alike there, because they might upset the tone of the novel regardless of the intended audience.
Then, some others have all this gritty and dark world in them. It would seem out of place to me if the language was artificially puppied-up in this case.
Some stories are more family-friendly and it reflects on the plot - you don't have violent murders, rapes, mass slaughters and stuff like that. I can see abstaining from the use of 'fuck' and alike there, because they might upset the tone of the novel regardless of the intended audience.
Then, some others have all this gritty and dark world in them. It would seem out of place to me if the language was artificially puppied-up in this case.
I'm a big fan of The Walking Dead, but currently I'm having trouble reading it because of Negan's constant cursing. He's boring, and I don't like to be bored. Would he be a different character without the f-bombs? No. He'd still be the brutal SOB he is, only less laughable.
So, if in doubt, ask yourself what does the cursing add? For example, "Hey [bleep] [bleep]. Hand me that [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] spanner!" How many [bleeps] are needed to get the point across? IMO, there are times when an expletive actually hits the mark - when it adds impact to the moment or tells you something about the character. But some authors get carried away.
So, if in doubt, ask yourself what does the cursing add? For example, "Hey [bleep] [bleep]. Hand me that [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] [bleep] spanner!" How many [bleeps] are needed to get the point across? IMO, there are times when an expletive actually hits the mark - when it adds impact to the moment or tells you something about the character. But some authors get carried away.
I don't like them if they are overused. In books and movies I hate it when every other word is a curse word. I feel that intelligent people do not have to use curse words because there are so many other words they can use. Of course, I am basically a conservative at heart.
That being said, I think if it fits the character, then use them. People in real life use them so why wouldn't characters in a book use them.
That being said, I think if it fits the character, then use them. People in real life use them so why wouldn't characters in a book use them.
No, intelligent people don't need to curse. But by that logic, nobody does.
Regardless of intellect, some situations call for it. For instance, finding out you have cancer- 'oh dear' doesn't cover it. Nor does 'blast it all', but I have respect for anyone who'd go with that. I think my diagnosis words were 'there's too many people here for it to be good news', but I'm digressing.
Curses are words, just like any other. There's no need to use one every other syllable, sure, but it's equally unnecessary to purge them all. I for one would miss the opportunity to call, say, David Cameron a f*****g two-faced w****r. Or referring to George W. Bush as an a**ewipe eejit war criminal.
Regardless of intellect, some situations call for it. For instance, finding out you have cancer- 'oh dear' doesn't cover it. Nor does 'blast it all', but I have respect for anyone who'd go with that. I think my diagnosis words were 'there's too many people here for it to be good news', but I'm digressing.
Curses are words, just like any other. There's no need to use one every other syllable, sure, but it's equally unnecessary to purge them all. I for one would miss the opportunity to call, say, David Cameron a f*****g two-faced w****r. Or referring to George W. Bush as an a**ewipe eejit war criminal.