Literary writers speak up

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shinta

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Interesting thing happened while I was trying (not too successfully) to take an offline staycation last week. Got feedback from an agent who reviewed my pitch without the intro/closing paragraphs: pitch only, not the full query with genre.

Her take on the plot was spot-on, and she said it sounded like upmarket women's fiction. So I finally have an answer from the mysterious land of agentdom as to how my pitch is being perceived at the other end. And I have a less anti-commercial sounding genre that I can use. I'd been testing out a few queries with women's fiction as the genre, but honestly, I was afraid to get all cocky and call it "upmarket," LOL.

Oh, and she said (gets giddy) she had no corrections to the pitch, and she actually used the word "brilliant." Her one very helpful change was a title swap. So now I'm pondering new title ideas before I jump back on the query wagon.

Unfortunately, this agent doesn't rep work with my themes, but she was extremely helpful. The feedback was part of a Webinar I attended.


How fantastic to have this valuable insight into your work! Now you know how to position your book when you query. Yay for the webinar and good luck with the hunt.
 

mkcbunny

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How fantastic to have this valuable insight into your work! Now you know how to position your book when you query. Yay for the webinar and good luck with the hunt.

Yeah, it came in one day when I really needed a boost. Now I just need a new title. Hmmmm.
 

shinta

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What are some literary magazines you read?

I read the NYer and while I really enjoy their creative nonfiction, I really feel frustrated with their fiction, which seems to fall all over the map from being shrill to rarefied to downright gimmicky. Besides, I hate it that they don't tell you if you are reading a short segment of a novel or a short story upfront and you have to guess. Tin House carries some good ones although they too are not consistent. Zoetrope tends to be trendy.

Are there any on-line magazines outside of the US that are worth reading?
 

gothicangel

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What are some literary magazines you read?

I read the NYer and while I really enjoy their creative nonfiction, I really feel frustrated with their fiction, which seems to fall all over the map from being shrill to rarefied to downright gimmicky. Besides, I hate it that they don't tell you if you are reading a short segment of a novel or a short story upfront and you have to guess. Tin House carries some good ones although they too are not consistent. Zoetrope tends to be trendy.

Are there any on-line magazines outside of the US that are worth reading?

There is a UK magazine called Mslexia:

http://www.mslexia.co.uk/index.php

I know some writers claim they can't read it because it's too 'literary', but it's the only one I can read cover-to-cover.
 

shinta

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Just thought I'd give an update on the saga for my lit. fic. book that my agent just started shopping recently.

An editor, who currently has my manuscript, and one who buys no more one debut fiction each year, for the past several years, just tweeted that he bought a debut book( not mine) this week. Does this mean his quota for the year is over and I do not stand a ghost of a chance with his house? A rejection before consideration?

I am miffed about getting evicted without a fair trial.
 

Sheila Muirenn

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Back to your origingal post:

WIP. It's actually experimental slipstream. Somewhere between literary and sci-fi. Probably smarter to market as either literary or sci-fi. But we'll see.

Definitely struggling to finish. But there are so many fun things to do out-of-doors it's hard to get there. (I ride my bicycle a lot, not a huge amount, but about 100 miles per week, and it does take time. Plus I take my dogs on 'outings' often. Hey, they like it! Oh, and I also work full-time:)

Don't give up Shinta, you are so much further than I!
 

Karen Landis

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Okay, Use Her Name. Congratulations. Sounds like a major milestone. Now you can finish the other 12. Are you going to tell us the "Theme" and/or your greatest fear?
 

unauthvu

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I'm wondering if maybe part of the reason this thread is sleepy is that people are afraid of sounding too full of themselves by calling their work "literary."

For myself, I just finished writing something (after only 30 years) that I hope will strike people as part "Helter Skelter," part "East of Eden." It's based on a bizarre murder case I covered as a reporter, and my intention was both to tell a compelling story and to get people thinking about the nature of evil (the "literary" side of it). So do I write literary fiction? I dunno. I hope I do. But I think of "literary" more as a level of accomplishment or depth than as a genre.

I'm thinking maybe a lot of writers shy away from talking about their literary aspirations for the same reason they'd prefer not to have to call their shot in a game of pool. Why risk seeming grandiose if you don't make your call?

But I guess the problem with that strategy is, it can be hard to find meaningful support if people don't know that you're trying to do more than just tell a good yarn.
 

mccardey

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I'm wondering if maybe part of the reason this thread is sleepy is that people are afraid of sounding too full of themselves by calling their work "literary."

It does feel like a bit of a risk, doesn't it? I was unnerved when I first heard about it...

Welcome to AW, View!!
 
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unauthvu

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Also, thanks to whoever sent me a private message--which my popup blocker seems to have swatted away into the depths of cyberspace. I've got the blocker turned off now, so if you don't mind re-sending it, I'd love to see it.
 

KellyAssauer

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I'm wondering if maybe part of the reason this thread is sleepy is that people are afraid of sounding too full of themselves by calling their work "literary."

For myself, I just finished writing something (after only 30 years) that I hope will strike people as part "Helter Skelter," part "East of Eden." It's based on a bizarre murder case I covered as a reporter, and my intention was both to tell a compelling story and to get people thinking about the nature of evil (the "literary" side of it). So do I write literary fiction? I dunno. I hope I do. But I think of "literary" more as a level of accomplishment or depth than as a genre.

I'm thinking maybe a lot of writers shy away from talking about their literary aspirations for the same reason they'd prefer not to have to call their shot in a game of pool. Why risk seeming grandiose if you don't make your call?

But I guess the problem with that strategy is, it can be hard to find meaningful support if people don't know that you're trying to do more than just tell a good yarn.

At the risk of sounding grandiose, current trends and definitions in the fiction genre make one major, and some minor allowances to what is currently defined as literary, even though it may be that a work will find it's way into "literature" without meeting those requirements.

First and foremost in the definition is the method by which the story is told. If your story (or anyone else's) is using plot to move the story forward (making the characters replaceable because it's 'what happened' that's most important) then the piece is not usually considered literary fiction. If, however the story is presented in such a manner whereupon it is character driven (ie: what happens to person x and how they deal) then it's more likely to be considered modern literary fiction.

There are sub-categories or exemptions/additions to this basic definition of character-driven. These are: when the piece has a particular unusual style, or if the work incorporates a tightly woven thematic presence...

These definitions do not mean that any plot-driven story won't be considered of literary merit... only that it doesn't fit the definition of the modern literary fiction genre.

I hope that helps some?

Also, private messages do not need to be resent when pop-up windows disappear, simply click on the "user CP" menu item which takes you to your settings... and then to 'private messages" "List messages" options on the side bar. =)

and Welcome to AW! =)
 

Camilla Delvalle

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Uptil now I've been a purveyor of genre fiction, but I'd like to write literary, and I like to read literary fiction. Some of my minor flash fiction pieces might be classed as literary, and my most recent serious short story is literary in my opinion, with a serious theme, metaphors, strange wording and stuff. I sent it to a competition but the winner has not been decided yet.
 

Tienci

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Literary writer checking in! Currently querying my second novel (literary/women's). The first was literary YA (trunked), the fifth (WIP) is definitely literary also, infused with magical realism. The fourth is a collection of inter-related short stories, and I'm not sure what it is yet; a bit literary, a little more mainstream/contemporary. The third currently looks like a mainstream suspense story.

I think I write literary because I like to read literary...
 
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milly

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okay...so, how short is too short for a literay piece?

I'm getting close to what I think is a stopping point in my literary fiction novel and I am not sure if I shouldn't try to work on it a bit more and make it longer

I mean, JM Coetzee's Disgrace for example was maybe 200 pages long and it was great...same goes for a lot of Saul Bellow works and some Philip Roth ones

(sorry, these are just some examples from what I have been reading lately)

I've written longer works that were more women's fiction as opposed to literary but, I think what I am doing now lends itself to being a shorter piece

thoughts?
 

mkcbunny

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I'm wondering if maybe part of the reason this thread is sleepy is that people are afraid of sounding too full of themselves by calling their work "literary."

I have to apologize for not coming back here much lately. I fell into a void mainly because I got some work (yay!) that sucked up time. I had to really cut back on my online forum reviewing because I can spend way too much time researching, reading, chatting, etc.

But along these lines, my new round of queries will probably pitch my novel as upmarket women's fiction, rather than literary. I still think it's literary, but having gotten feedback from an agent that it sounded like the other, I am inclined to use the genre that seems like an easier sell. Will let you know if I get any bites that way.
 

swingmesoftly

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Following unauthvu's insight, I'm more a little hesitant to call my projects "literary," but I suppose if you all will forgive me for being presumptuous, I will forgive myself. :)

Currently alternating between revising a collection of poetry and working on my two WIPs, the first co-written with an old friend from art school (which is entering the denouement - exciting) and then my solo novel (which takes a comfortable third to the other projects, but is moseying along quite nicely - picture a leisurely walk through a garden, tapping a stick along the gate, stopping to watch insects crawl on leaves, etc).

I find it helpful to my writing process to do all of these projects at once. Revising my poetry before writing fine-tunes my brain's focus on detail, so that when I switch to my WIPs I'm in figurative, condensed language-mode. Co-writing my first WIP allows ample time between sections (it's written in an exchange of letters) for reflection - did I really respond the way my character would, or did whatever happened that day in my personal life affect my writing? You'd be surprised how much my subconscious likes using these letters as a form of catharsis, it's quite sneaky sometimes. :) And then, of course, my third project is allowed to go along as slowly as it chooses, and I can spend as much time as I want honing phrases, sentences, and paragraphs, because it is not vital that I get it done yet. Or at least, that's what I'm allowing myself to think for the time being. :D

Congrats and good luck to everyone pitching their finished novels - that is just fantastic. And of course, to everyone tapping away on incomplete projects, keep tapping, I believe in you!
 

college boy

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My workshop partners were adamant last night that my novel is literary. I really didn't want it to be perceived as literary (while still saying the important things that I wanted to say) because I have heard over and over again that the market for literary fiction is dismal. An agent does have the full, so I guess that I will keep my fingers crossed. If she doesn't like it, I will trunk it while I write a thriller.
 

KellyAssauer

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An agent does have the full, so I guess that I will keep my fingers crossed. If she doesn't like it, I will trunk it while I write a thriller.

Wait for the agent!! Sometimes books full of important things are actually easier to get in to print than yet another thriller...

-just saying-
 

college boy

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Wait for the agent!! Sometimes books full of important things are actually easier to get in to print than yet another thriller...

-just saying-

Thanks. I am afraid that people may not want to hear some of the important things in The Russian Code. I know that my parents don't. I did get the most positive crits on chapters 9-12 that I ever got in a workshop last night, and I've been going to workshops since 1997, so that made me feel good. I'm not sure how it helps me improve the novel, though.
 

maestrowork

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Most agents say that they accept literary fiction( as a matter of fact it features at the top of their list) but if you look closer, they really don't.

I also notice the same thing. Many agents list "literary" as something they're looking for, but if you look closely at their clients and novels, most are commercial fiction. Now, it's not to say they definitely don't represent literary -- perhaps they just haven't found one they're crazy about.

And that's the thing, literary fiction has such a WIDE spectrum. It can be anything. What attracts an agent to a project? Your guess is just as good as mine. And how do you sell "great writing" with a few paragraphs? With commercial fiction, the plot hooks the agent first, and then the writing seals the deal. With literary, somehow you will have to hook the agent even thought your premise sounds mundane. I mean, how do you sell THE HOURS with only two paragraphs? Almost impossible. But if you don't read it, you'll have no idea how brilliant it really is.
 
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Priene

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I also notice the same thing. Many agents list "literary" as something they're looking for, but if you look closely at their clients and novels, most are commercial fiction. Now, it's not to say they definitely don't represent literary -- perhaps they just haven't found one they're crazy about.

I had that once. Got a rejection with "liked it, but it's too literary for us". I only queried them because they listed literary fiction.
 

Jefflrich

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I'll chime in. I actually am proud to tout myself as a literary fiction writer. I didn't set out to write "literary fiction" though, it's just how I write. Just more interested in character development and the whys of action than the action itself. I would love to write the next great thriller or paranormal young adult craze but it wouldn't read true. I write how I write and that's that.

I have one novel under my belt. I got agented late last year and, after a round of editing, she started sending to publishers this year. so far it's been rejected upwards of 10 times (not really sure how many times as she started "shielding" me from them, God bless her). We came very close in the beginning as my agent went the YA route at first (my narrator is a 13 year old boy) but ultimately the publisher found the book too dark for YA, though they loved it and said it was the hardest rejection he had ever written. My agent has sworn to me that she will not stop until the book sells. I love her for her belief in me and my book, especially when my own falters.

To speak to the whole "literary" agent conversation, my agent mostly represents romance (the farthest genre from my book possible!). I actually would never have sent her my book if I had looked at her repped works in advance. Although she, like so many agents, states on her website that she is looking for Literary Fiction, I would never have believed it from reviewing her clients. Luckily, I met her through a writing conference. I believe that the agents aren't lying when they say they are looking for Lit Fic, it's just that Lit Fic doesn't pay the bills so they have to be truly passionate about the book to take it on. It's going to take more effort on their part to get sold with less reward, most likely. Unless of course they happen upon the next Lovely Bonesor Water for Elephants. Lit Fic looks great on the website but it probably won't even make enough to pay the webmaster for adding it to the site!

I say: One shouldn't write literary fiction to make money. One should write literary fiction because one has no other choice.

On that note, I am currently working on book number two, also literary fiction. I'm about 3/4 of the way through the first draft, hoping to be finished by the end of the year if all goes well.

Good luck to us all!!! And keep writing as you need to write.
 

college boy

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I don't set out to write literary fiction, that is just how it comes out. I guess that I am just interested in people.
 

maestrowork

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I had that once. Got a rejection with "liked it, but it's too literary for us". I only queried them because they listed literary fiction.

That happened to me too. I submitted because the agent asked for literary. She even ASKED for a partial after reading my query, so I figured she knew it was a literary fiction. And she wrote back and said "I'm looking for the next John Grisham."
 
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