Short story submittal/publication

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CathleenT

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I'm sorry if this is a question addressed many times before, but I looked and didn't see it anywhere, so I'll post it.

I've been writing some flash fiction to keep my sanity as I work at severely cutting my novels.

Now, assuming I can get my stuff revised to the point there are no criticisms of substance, and at least some readers like them, what do I do about submitting them?

I've read about high prestige short publications (although I haven't found out which mags are on it), but I was just going to go through and try to sell mine, starting with the places that pay the most. When it comes down to it, I'd sell to the site (sorry, can't remember the name off the top of my head) that pays three bucks a story if I can't sell it anywhere else. Unless this is a bad idea for some reason. Frankly, it's not the three dollars, but just getting the story out there. But I'd rather not just give it away.

And, (more assuming), I get my novels cut to where they're marketable, and (yippee) now I've got something to put on the bio line of the query, do I go ahead and list what I've sold, no matter who I sold it to? Or is there some sacred top ten list, and if you didn't sell to one of these, you might as well be talking about your border collie on the bio line.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Lady Chipmunk

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I write science fiction and fantasy, and there are some big markets out there that are well known that people shoot for. Also, a lot of the writers I know at least start with the SFWA qualifying markets.

Which is a really long-winded way of saying where you try to publish is at least nominally affected by the genre of your work. Not all markets accept anything, and you're going to want to research any market before submitting.

Not all are created equal regardless of what they pay (or claim to pay.)
 

Hapax Legomenon

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Just because something pays a token rate does not make it not competitive.
 

Lady Chipmunk

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I'd also point out that publication is not essential for querying. I have no professional grade short story publications. I still have an agent. (And she's awesome, just for the record.)

However, if you want to share the stories and see them in print then a good rule of thumb is to submit to the places where you find things you like to read (assuming, of course, said places accept your type of work. Sending hardcore erotica to a Christian magazine, for example, is probably counterproductive.)

If you are looking to build a resume of high-level professional sales, then you need to research the markets. There are tons of resources for ascertaining which are reputable or not. Some are scammy, and you want to avoid those. Other than that, it's really all about what you're trying to accomplish with these stories.
 

CathleenT

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In case this helps anyone answering, of the six stories I've posted here, three are historical, two are contemporary, and one is fantasy. I don't anticipate writing outside of those three genres, but of course, you never know.

My novels so far are all historical fantasy.

And Lady Chipmunk's line about professional grade short story publications gets to the heart of my question. Is that anyone who pays you money (even three bucks)? Or it there an unofficial list that writers and publishers in the know would consider to be professional grade?

I would really like to be in the know on this one. Thanks.
 
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Lady Chipmunk

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Well, for the fantasy, I suggest looking at ralan.com. It compiles the SF/F markets. The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction is part of the big trio in SF/F (Asimov's and Analog being the others, but they are more SF than fantasy in my experience.)

Daily Science Fiction also buys fantasy, and they specialize in shorter works like flash fiction, so that might be a good option.

I don't do much with contemporary or historical, so I am afraid I will be no help there.
 

NinjaFingers

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duotrope is also useful. You have to pay for the tracking but not, I believe, to just search their database.

I second the suggestion of Daily Science Fiction as a first pass for flash fiction, although it's highly competitive - I still haven't got in there yet.
 

Hapax Legomenon

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If you don't have money for Duotrope, the Submissions Grinder is free. It will help you find markets and has stats for the markets listed. The market you were talking about, it's Every Day Fiction, isn't it? Their grinder stats give a 53% rejection rate for that mag and I'd bet that's lower than their general subs.

To be honest I like to sub by average response time instead of payment, but I'm impatient :p
 

Polenth

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Pro, semi-pro and token are based on how much they pay. Places like the Grinder let you search by that. For fantasy, SFWA has a list of markets that qualify for their membership (which means they have to pay a certain amount). It's not a complete list of all pro markets, but agents are likely to have heard of these.

http://www.sfwa.org/about/join-us/sfwa-membership-requirements/

Once you get into short fiction, you'll get a feel for which semi-pros (and sometimes token) markets have a good reputation. They're generally the markets that people who sell to the pros also submit to, you'll hear people talking about, and so on. If you've never heard of a market, or you have any doubts about the quality of the market based on their presentation/story choice, hold off a little. What you don't need is to be in yet another no-paying market, that has no promotion and no readers.

I'd also advise caution when it comes to anthologies that pay royalties only. This has become popular among people who decide they can be an editor too, but don't have any capital to launch the book. Usually writers won't end up getting paid for these projects.
 

CathleenT

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Yeah, I think it was Every Day Fiction. So, are they considered a professional publication, even though they only pay three dollars? I was going to go there last, but really, in the scheme of things, I won't get paid much for flash anyway since you usually get paid by the word.

Or would putting publication in Every Day Fiction on a bio line be like claiming I'm published just because I self-pubbed my aunt's biography?

Seems to me like it'd be better than having nothing on a bio line (the Every Day Fiction, not the selfie thing), but what do I know? That's why I started this thread.

And thanks, Polenth; I'll check out Grinder.
 
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Lady Chipmunk

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I'm not familiar with Every Day Fiction personally, so I can't tell you where they fit, but my impression on what goes in the bio is as follows:

Professional or well-regarded markets: Good-use them
Semi-Pro or specialty markets: Probably won't hurt, also won't help much, especially if agent is unfamiliar with it
Disreputable or scam markets: Listing these might actually hurt you because it shows a lack of knowledge in the field.

That said, agents really look at the writing first and foremost. If that's good, you're going to get interest.

And if you don't have publishing credits, there are other things you can put in a bio: writing degrees, workshops completed, any special knowledge applicable to your story.
 

Polenth

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Yeah, I think it was Every Day Fiction. So, are they considered a professional publication, even though they only pay three dollars? I was going to go there last, but really, in the scheme of things, I won't get paid much for flash anyway since you usually get paid by the word.

Every Day Fiction is token payment. They do have readers, and if it's your only credit it wouldn't hurt to list them. They don't have a bad reputation as such. But it's not going to be as hard hitting as a sale to one of the pros. Of course, pros might not want your story... but if you don't start at the top, you'll never know.

Also, for flash, you won't always be paid by word. It's not that unusual for markets to have a minimum payment, so you'd get that for very short pieces. Flash Fiction Online pays $60 (and takes a range of genres). Strange Horizons has a $50 minimum (speculative genres). You'll find more like that as you go through the markets and read their guidelines. Don't settle on submitting to the first market you find simply because it was the first... get a feel for the markets first, so you've got some idea where they fall in terms of pay and reputation.
 

CathleenT

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Polenth,
How do I get a feel for the markets? Publication websites all claim they're wonderful. And you guys have better things to do with your time than run through them for me one-by-one.

Are there websites that evaluate these things? Reputable ones, because I can totally see somebody putting up a bs one that says a bunch of scam sites are terrific. (The internet both giveth and taketh away.)

Thanks again.
 

Lady Chipmunk

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Writers Beware is a good place to look. They'll identify the outright scams. Also, you can look here. There is an entire forum for this sort of thing (I never remember the full name, but it's Background, Bewares, Recommendations, or something like that.) Use the search link for the forums for the names of markets you are considering and see what people have had to say.

You can also get a sense from what and who they publish. Reputable markets draw known writers and tend to have a very high quality of work to choose from.

There are also professional organizations (like SFWA) that list markets they consider qualifying. And, when in doubt, Google. If a market is bad, people will be talking about it online.
 

Polenth

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Community. Whether it's here, Twitter, or other place of your choice, you get to know by listening to the community. Writers aren't going to be shy about saying they have a new story up or they had issues with a market. All you really have to do is make sure you're standing in the right places to hear it.

Also look at the W1S1 forum here, though I'd say Twitter is the place that tends to have the news first.
 

Jamesaritchie

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By and large, there are very, very few scam short story markets. A simple Google search will give you the top markets in every genre, and if a market is list in reputable databases, you can trust it.

Really, I'm not real sure how scam short story markets would even work.

The real question is high prestige and/or good pay. Competitiveness alone doesn't make a magazine credit worthy. Just about every magazine is highly competitive. What matters is who you're competing against. To be credit worthy, a magazine needs high prestige, or high pay, which means you're competing against big name writers in that genre. If you want to use a story as a credit, the market needs at least one of these, and preferably both.

Such markets really are not difficult to find, if they exist. They're the magazine every experienced writer knows, and that every good database lists.
 

Buffysquirrel

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To get a feel for the prestige markets, look at any Best Of collections in that genre. They'll list where the stories were originally published.
 

veinglory

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Yeah, I think it was Every Day Fiction. So, are they considered a professional publication, even though they only pay three dollars? I was going to go there last, but really, in the scheme of things, I won't get paid much for flash anyway since you usually get paid by the word.

Or would putting publication in Every Day Fiction on a bio line be like claiming I'm published just because I self-pubbed my aunt's biography?

Seems to me like it'd be better than having nothing on a bio line (the Every Day Fiction, not the selfie thing), but what do I know? That's why I started this thread.

And thanks, Polenth; I'll check out Grinder.

Why focus on that one low paying market? Look at the market listings suggested above.
You get to know markets for shorts the same way as markets for novels. You research them, look at their stats, their reputation, their payment, their contract and the quality of their product.
 
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Jamesaritchie

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It's always best to start submitting at the top and work your way down. One thing is certain, and that's starting at the top and working your way down means that the best magazine that wants your story will get it. Why sell a story to a tiny, nobody ever heard of it market for three bucks when it might be good enough for a top market that pays hundreds or thousands?

Or for a market that may not pay a huge amount, but that has far higher prestige, and that will open doors for you?

And while it does depend on what kind of fiction you write, many of the really big markets do not pay by the word, but simply by the story.
 

Lady Chipmunk

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And while it does depend on what kind of fiction you write, many of the really big markets do not pay by the word, but simply by the story.

Really? This is probably just because my exposure is limited to SF/F markets, but all the major ones in that field pay by the word.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Really? This is probably just because my exposure is limited to SF/F markets, but all the major ones in that field pay by the word.


Yes, I should have been more specific. It's the big national slicks that often don't pay by the word. The New Yorker, Esquire, etc. I've also sold a pretty fair number of short stories to the big outdoor magazines, and they paid by the story, as well.

Some pay a given for short stories below a certain word count,and another fee for stories above. Some pay a set fee for stories published in a department or column, but they don't go by specific word count.

I sold three stories to the same magazine, all of the same length, or within a hundred words of the same length, and received $800 for one, $1,000 for a second, and $1,500 for the third because each was published in a different section of the magazine. One appeared in a column, one back page piece, and one as a feature.

From my experience, flash fiction length stories can run along the same pay lines in the really big magazines, and not much less in the group of mags just below these.
 
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