Western writing prompts thread

HarryHoskins

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Mods are also writers and with their mod responsibilites don't always have as much time as some of the rest of us do to think about consolidating threads, etc. That's also the case with things like contests. A mod has to be willing to take it on and manage it and that consumes more of their available time. (Lots of people on AW have full time jobs plus families and personal projects they're working on.)

Do I dare suggest delegation and promotion, I do! Be lovely to see some of the long serving hands here take up some more responsibility. :)

The other thing about AW and the community is that forums only work well when there are several people willing to give as well as take. It's fun to put up posts in SYW and get comments on improving, but unfortunately there are always posters who don't give back and make comments on posts put up by others. This is a continual gripe in SYW.

There should definitely be a prompt sticky, which, with each new prompt set, underlines the etiquette and importance of trying to crit everyone who enters into that prompt if you have entered it yourself. Sure, sometimes it's not practical and sometimes you won't have anything to say, but still, if the idea of critting is out there with each prompt it should filter down.

Bottom line - the more all of us get involved, the better the chance that the western forums won't languish anymore. Puma

Agreed. And, let's not forget, the more people that crit, the more new posts are created in Western SYW. These may be missed in SYW due to the positioning of the Western sub-forum, but they do show up on the main page. So the more posts, be they crits or stories, the more people will notice this most southern and neglected of forums. :)
 

Puma

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Gee, Harry, did I just hear you volunteer to make a consolidation of all the previously suggested western challenge topics in the old stickies and post it either here or in SYW as a sticky for future reference? You'd also have to ask a mod to sticky the new thread and unsticky the old ones. Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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Dagnabbit, Puma! I believe I was forwarding your goodself! :)

However, I'd be more than happy to give it a go. Won't be able to start until Tuesday as I'm currently communicating from a small computer away from the homestead. But, from said day, I will start work on it and then post the results for everyones consideration.

Does that sound ok? Or is it another fine mess I've gotten my self into. :)
 

Puma

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You're a good man, Harry Hoskins! :)

It really shouldn't be much of a problem other than taking the time to do it and then figuring out whether it would be better in this genre forum or SYW.

Derek (dpaterso) is usually the mod I ask to do things for us in Western, but I'm pretty sure Alleycat is also a mod now and wouldn't mind being asked.

Thanks a bunch for doing this. I would have, but in my spare time I'm working on markets. I added agents who say they take western genre about a day ago and want to work on publishers next. But, I also have quite a lot of other stuff to work on including my story(s) for the October challenge, so I appreciate your willingness to help. Puma
 

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Yesterday I asked Ol'Fashioned Girl about consolidating her Van Cleave Memoirs into one sticky. She and Derek took care of it for us. Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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Yesterday I asked Ol'Fashioned Girl about consolidating her Van Cleave Memoirs into one sticky. She and Derek took care of it for us. Puma

Excellent stuff, Puma, OFG and Sheriff Pat. :)

I'm still of the view that the less stickies the better and, in relation to this and at the risk of pushing things, I think that OFG's very useful thread would be better merged with Dave Hardy's very useful Western Books thread. Furthermore, having done a cursory on site search I notice there are a few other similar threads to Dave Hardy's which would benefit from being merged, too.

The problem here is not only the workload involved in doing this (with which I am happy to help out), but also the question of whether a single thread would become too mega to become useful. Still, with such a lot of information available it seems a shame to let it slip into the sites nether-regions. Perhaps creating a title thread that catalogues with blue links to the correct post/thread is the way forward in avoiding too many stickies and a mega thread?

This leads me to my next point.

It's great to see the October Prompt Stickied in the Western Forum which prompted me to start looking at consolidating the previous prompt ideas so we can get rid of the age old stickies in the SYW and just have the current prompt showing.

When doing this I came across a few problems. Below is an artists impression of how this consolidation would look ...


Consolidated Western Prompt Ideas said:
Myself, I'm kinda tired of the "hero rides off leaving the nester's daughter behind" stuff, at least without any meaning. If your hero's a Civil War veteran (and possibly suffering from PTSD) this makes sense, but not all heroes fit that profile. What about an ending where they decide to stay together? Hell, it worked for The Virginian...:)

1.) A posse goes after an outlaw.

2.) A hanging.

A special or unusual skill, not something just anyone can have or learn. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe not.

Problems caused by failure to communicate, not just between the white man and the red man (pardon the era stereotypes), maybe between people of different stock.

Barroom brawl and/or poker game
Jumping (off a building, cliff, train, whatever)
The Ladies
Red rock and/or purple sage
Mirage and/or water
Mining
Cattle Drive/Round-up
Greenhorns
Mountain Men / Scouts
Church / cemetery / camp meeting
Encounters with wild animals
Rustling
Trains
Wagon Trains
Boats/Ships on rivers or the ocean
Any city or town
Massacres and/or battles
Chinatown
Weather
Scenery (what I always like about westerns - dramatic settings that say so much about the American West and why it is so powerful.)

A real challenge - take a painting by any of the American greats - Charlie Russell, Frederick Remington, Albert Bierstadt, Thomas Moran, etc and write a short story that tells the story in the painting.


Firstly, it's a bit messy and secondly, whilst all the ideas are good and useful, I wondered whether it might be better, and more user friendly, to blue linky these threads in each new Prompt. This way we are keeping the history of the forum and providing ideas for prompt setters and anyone who just wants a western prompt, but also reducing stickies and making the SYW forum more current.

On the subject of the monthly prompt, I suggest we should shamelessly steal and adapt the SFF prompt thread (which I have posted below for you perusal).


Taken from the original thread:

Four prompts, for the four Mondays in September:

1) Friendship
2) Youth
3) Chores
4) Earth

***Special Challenge: Dinosaurs. This is not a topic per se, but rather something to work into one of the above topics.

Enjoy!

Guidelines
(most taken from Az)
-- Suggested length is under or around 1k for ease of reading, however you may write more if you choose. Shorts around 2-3k are not uncommon.

-- When are ready to post the challenge you make a new thread in the SF/F SYW section. You label said thread <month> challenge: <insert challenge name> <word count>.

-- Please give a brief blurb at the top of your piece. Tell us what you need help with or a pinch of back story if required.

-- You can do one topic or a combo or all of them. It's encouraged to try and do one per week.

-- Don't post first drafts.

-- You may use characters, settings, or ideas from your current WIP-world, or do something totally new.

-- At least critique the entries of those people who, out of the kindness of their hearts, took the time to crit your piece. Ideally we would like to see you crit everyone's.

And don't forget about Write1Sub1!

--------

Participants:

Scott Cole: Friendship, Youth, Chores



I really like the idea of having a standard format and some guidelines. Obviously, we can can adapt it to fit the ins and outs of each prompt -- including the name of the following months prompt setter so they have time to prepare, adding the links to the old prompt ideas and the previous monthly prompts etc. Once the month is up, this should be unstickied and the new prompt stickied in its place.

So, that's what I'm a thinking. Question is, whaddya y'all think?

Too much change? Too much hardwork? Or worth a try? :)
 

bkendall

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I definitely think most of it's worth a shot. As far as merging threads without making it too mega, I believe they did something worth looking at in the novels forum with the uncle jim thread. Pick out important points and only post those parts. Of course, that will take a lot of hard work on part of those assigned/volunteered. With my work schedule, I don't know how much I could help, but I would be willing to help also.
 

Puma

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Thought 1 - Look at historical genre, Resources by Era, posted and managed by pdr. It's good, but lopsided in content, and - if I were looking for a resource I'd more likely go to the story research thread and ask a single question. (The responses there are usually quick and pretty good.)

Thought 2 - Consolidating the possible challenge topics - my thought is short topics and a lot of what you copied over, Harry, was explanation or just jabbering. EG, CavGuy simplified - they lived happily ever after. But, the idea of linking the prior posts might be a good one if one of the mods has the time to do it.

Thought 3 - I do not like the idea of a challenge / topic a week. To me that approach boils down to writing exercises and I'm not looking for writing exercises. I'm only doing two stories this month in the hopes of getting some more interest going in western. One or two topics a month is plenty. I have plenty to work on literary-wise and other-wise than challenge topics (but I will participate as much as I can on a monthly basis.)

Thought 4 - The Guidelines listed are pretty much understood by people who've been here for a while. Only a rank newbie (or arrogant SOB) posts a first draft. My viewpoint on this is "always put my best foot forward" - what I post should be as good as I can make it under the time (or other) constraints.

Thought 5 - People who view AW as a community and understand the "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" understand the importance of returning crits and reads. This is also brought up frequently in bitch threads on the main SYW board. And, people who post for challenges are less likely to post their own work and ignore everyone else.

Thought 6 - Another protocol that's been a mainstay of those who've been on historical SYW for a while is to always give everyone who reads and comments on one of their posts a rep point in addition to saying thank you in the thread. It costs the repper nothing and it's a nice way to let the critter know you do appreciate the time he or she took away from their own writing. Puma

ETA: You might want to check out the 2011 challenge thread at the top of historical SYW, Harry.
 
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HarryHoskins

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I believe they did something worth looking at in the novels forum with the uncle jim thread. Pick out important points and only post those parts.

That would work well, I think. Definately something to look into. :)


ETA: You might want to check out the 2011 challenge thread at the top of historical SYW, Harry.

I don't know why I didn't do this in the first place, looks good to me. As do all your suggestions. I should add, I wasn't saying we should have a prompt a week, I was just outlining a useful template to adapt to our own needs. The historical one looks good, so I'm happy to go with that.

In the meantime, I'll continue to consolidate the prompt ideas -- I was a little hesitant about editing them, but now I've got the go ahead I'll push on. :)
 

Puma

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Don't be hesitant to edit the old topics threads. Those threads will still exist after they've been unstickied, but eventually they'll sink down the pages. I know you don't know the members who contributed the topics; I do, so does Derek, and I'll assure you they'd have no problem with us streamlining things to build more interest in western. Cavguy has been showing up on here from time to time, haven't seen Festus in ages and I hope he's okay - he's the one who insisted there had to be western forums, that western deserved to be separate from historical.

Couple more thoughts I had after my "thoughts" last night. One of the main issues we need to think about on these western forums is what our real purpose is in trying to revitalize them. Is the purpose to try to get more western genre published and back in the public eye? Or, is our purpose to build up the western community here and create stories for our personal enjoyment with little thought to going beyond AW? Or is it somewhere in the middle? I'm definitely on the trying to get things published side of the question - but what about everyone else?

The other thought expands on my thought 4 from last night. I don't know about anyone else, but when a poster puts up a rough draft, then revises and reposts a day later, then revises and reposts two days later, ad nauseum - I get tired reading the same thing over and a bit irritated that the poster isn't taking the time to really think the comments and suggestions through for themselves. Once in a while, if the poster really is making an effort, I'm very happy to work with them through multiple drafts. But I can almost count the number of posters who have fallen into that category on my hands - one of them was here in western, another was a non-native English speaker, another an ex-con - but all of them were really trying to learn and definitely worth the time. Another way to look at this is - don't look at SYW as a quick editing service.

Enough for this morning. It's rainy today so I hope to get some writing done. Puma
 

CDaniel

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Couple more thoughts I had after my "thoughts" last night. One of the main issues we need to think about on these western forums is what our real purpose is in trying to revitalize them. Is the purpose to try to get more western genre published and back in the public eye? Or, is our purpose to build up the western community here and create stories for our personal enjoyment with little thought to going beyond AW? Or is it somewhere in the middle? I'm definitely on the trying to get things published side of the question - but what about everyone else?


Hey, Puma. Hope you managed to get a lot done today.

In regards to the above. Its really up to the invidiual author whether or not they are posting stories in hopes to have them published, to improve their writing skills, to help build a thicker skin towards critquing, or for enjoyment. It would be nice to have more authors wanting to help revive the western genre outside of this forum, but most people here are not that interested in the western outside of writing one here for fun. Maybe its because the western as we both know it has been done to death (Its said yes, but true).
 

HarryHoskins

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Is the purpose to try to get more western genre published and back in the public eye? Or, is our purpose to build up the western community here and create stories for our personal enjoyment with little thought to going beyond AW? Or is it somewhere in the middle? I'm definitely on the trying to get things published side of the question - but what about everyone else?

It is all of the above, Puma. :)

All these things lead to each other, but we have to lay the foundations before we can build on them. We need to get the genre on its feet on this site, and then, once we have a bit of a scene going, we can push off into the real world. This is, of course, no reason not to start thinking of ways to achieve this difficult task, but I think we need to take things a step at a time.

So, if the above is my overall purpose and hope for what we are trying to do, the below is my personal purpose.

I'm want to learn the genre (old and new styles) and grow as a writer so I can produce work of a publishable quality in the western -- and consequently -- any genre.

With that said, I agree with CD that it's up to the author for their reasons for posting and writing. And, with regards to the need to create interest, I don't think this is a bad thing. The more the merrier -- some of those people might just try writing a western for fun and leave, others might write one for fun and discover they love working in the genre and stay.

Each new recruit is a step closer to either a cult or an army! :)

The more people writing the genre and getting better at it, the more people will be submitting the genre.

The more people submitting quality work in the genre, the more likely publisher/agent type folk will take an interest and so on and so forth.

It's a big snowball. But first you gotta have the right conditions for snow. :)

This isn't to say that those who are ready shouldn't crack on with getting things out there, I was just thinking the more people and the higher the quality, the better.
 

HarryHoskins

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A couple of quick addendums to my previous post after my brain has got into gear. :)

This isn't to say that those who are ready shouldn't crack on with getting things out there, I was just thinking the more people and the higher the quality, the better.

However, if there are competitions coming up I see only good things in tailoring a prompt to fit the bill. It'll help those who are ready and give those who aren't something to aim and prepare for. :)

I don't know about anyone else, but when a poster puts up a rough draft, then revises and reposts a day later, then revises and reposts two days later, ad nauseum - I get tired reading the same thing over and a bit irritated that the poster isn't taking the time to really think the comments and suggestions through for themselves.

I think this is a standard SYW piece of etiquette. Though I would suggest that the more help given to people, the better people will get and the more quality pieces of the Western genre will be written.

The rule of don't post unworked work is a good one, but I don't think it should totally prohibit the posting of stuff that needs work and help.

A simple way of dealing with this is not to feel like you have to crit every piece if you don't want to. I'm sure there will, as the forum grows, be plenty of people willing to give it a go. Critting is an activity that is, as I well know, especially helpful to both the critter's -- and the person receiving the crits -- writing. :)
 
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Puma

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You're an optimist, Harry. I'm afraid I can say, been there, done that, got the T-shirt. But I hope I'm wrong.

I have a very soft spot in my heart for people who need a lot of help and are willing to listen. And I'm willing to invest time in them.

I'm not saying people shouldn't post things that need work - there are very few posts put in SYW that can't be improved. What I'm complaining about 1) are posters who hurriedly revise one of the problems mentioned in crits and miss fixing spelling errors that were pointed out at the same time or other simple fixes (and I don't mean just one). If there's evidence the poster has incorporated all of the suggestions and is ready to go up a level in the crit, great, but sometimes that isn't the case and the repost is basically a rehash of where the piece was originally. By the fourth or fifth repost, it gets pretty old.

And 2), my plea to make your work the best possible you can before you post it, doesn't require much more than a read through (there are people who post and say - I just dashed this off and haven't had a chance to read it.) If the post has wree instead of were, obviously a typo, but has instead of have, or to instead of too - then the critter has to make a judgement on whether it was a typo and the poster will catch it or that the poster doesn't know and it needs to be mentioned. Critters always run the risk of being called condescending, insensitive, unqualified, plus a lot more.

Moving on - competitions - yes there are some good ones with western themes - the Hillerman mystery contest being one of them. Unfortunately the entries for this year closed about the time we were revving up this genre. Puma
 

Puma

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Next topic - crits. We already have some different levels of interest in what we hope to accomplish with our attempt of revival of western here and elsewhere. Consequently, I think we also ought to have a way to indicate what we're looking for in a crit. Examples:

Someone who's just writing for fun and has no intentions of trying to publish the writing might indicate that in the SYW thread with a "For Fun"

Someone who currently is writing to learn how to do a better job might indicate that with a "Learning"

Someone who hopes to be able to submit what's posted for a contest, magazine, or whatever, might show that with a "Serious"

We all know someone who's writing just for fun and to share tales of the west, doesn't necessarily want a grammar lesson, but conversely, someone who hopes to publish doesn't want (or shouldn't want) to be told the writing is great when there are problems.

I think you all know what I'm saying. Suggestions on the best way to do this so crits are comparable to the poster's expectations. Puma
 

CDaniel

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It has to be up to the author, Puma.
 

Puma

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Sure it has to be up to the author, Dan, but how does the author show that in the thread when it's first put up on SYW? Puma
 

bkendall

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Someone who's just writing for fun and has no intentions of trying to publish the writing might indicate that in the SYW thread with a "For Fun"

Someone who currently is writing to learn how to do a better job might indicate that with a "Learning"

Someone who hopes to be able to submit what's posted for a contest, magazine, or whatever, might show that with a "Serious"

We all know someone who's writing just for fun and to share tales of the west, doesn't necessarily want a grammar lesson, but conversely, someone who hopes to publish doesn't want (or shouldn't want) to be told the writing is great when there are problems.

[/QUOTE]

That's a great suggestion which I will be using this next challenge. Of course many people won't fall into just one of these categories. Take me for instance. I'm more of a for fun and learning writer but the grammar thing isn't my strong suit by a longshot, so those corrections are always welcome to me. But imo, those tags would be very useful.
 

CDaniel

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I think it has to be up to the author, Puma, to specify what they are after. That's about all that any of us can do. What dose derek say I wonder?
 

Puma

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That's the whole point of my suggestion, Dan. It would be good if the author let people know when he or she posts what type of crit he or she wants. I'm not suggesting we label people, I'm saying we should let people tell us what they want from us as critters. Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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I was again messing around with consolidating the various prompt ideas, and, not reaching any where near a satisfactory conclusion, I thought it might just be better to link them for reference. :)

So, below is an idea for the format of the 2011 Western Monthly Prompt Thread. Nothing set in stone, I just wanted to get some ideas going so we can dispense of the three stickies in SYW and replace them with a single current one.

It's a mixture of the Historical challenge thread and the Sci-fi prompt thread. This way discussion can flow in the thread, but the OP can be edited each month with the new prompt so new people always know what's happening. Once the year is up, it can be unstickied and blue linkied into the 2012 prompt thread.


I'll be the first to admit that it looks a little ugly, but I reckon, with some discussion of what to add and remove, it'll get the job done.


So, whaddya'll think needs to stay, go and be added? :)


Idea for the 2011 Western Monthly Prompt Thread said:


______________________________________________


CURRENT PROMPT: OCTOBER

A Western Ghost Story; Set between—let us say form 1870 to the present. You are allowed ghosts, monsters, vampires, etc. It has to have a western setting or theme; meaning (just for an example) an old west town still in its hay-day— for a classical western setting or a ghost town for a present day setting. Word count should top out at about 2000 to 4000 words. The Prompt ends November first. - CDaniel


______________________________________________



PROMPT HELP & GUIDELINES:

- Please label your entry in the following format.

<Month> Prompt: <Title> (<Type of Piece> - <Word Count> - <Content Warning (if necessary))>

For Example:

October Prompt: The Pumpkin Cowboy (WIP Scene - 2000 Words - Adult Content)

- The approximate length of your piece should be defined in the prompt. But, if it isn't, please do not exceed 5000 words.

- Consider posting a short introduction to your piece if you feel it necessary. Also, consider telling those who will be critting you whether you are posting for fun or with a more professional intent.

- Please try to crit everyone who takes part in the prompt.

- Please do not post first drafts.

- Please keep re-writes in the same thread as the original work and do not immediately post re-drafts after a crit.

- Once you are happy with your work, why not check out the Markets for Westerns thread to have a look-see about sending them out somewhere.

______________________________________________


PROMPTS & PARTICIPANT ARCHIVE:

September:

Write (or find something in [your] WIP) a paragraph to 1,000 words on the topic "They went thataway" and post what they've written in Western SYW on September 30. What's written can be historical western, conventional western, spaghetti western, Chinese western, sci-fi western, whatever - but, in some way it should have some link to Western, however the word is defined. - Puma


They Went That a Way - bkendall

He Went Thattaway - Harry Hoskins


They Went Thattaway - Puma

______________________________________________


USEFUL RESOURCES FOR PROMPT SETTERS:


Possible Western Challenge Topics

Western writing prompts thread

JULY CHALLENGE - Will this Work? Or Not? Try? Try for July?


______________________________________________



 

Puma

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Gut reaction: way to wordy. And, during the week after Dan suggested the October topic he expanded it so there weren't so stringent parameters.

My suggestion would be:
October - Ghost story - CDaniel
September - They Went Thattaway - Puma

And, since we'll be adding topics during the year, there is always an option of adding "see post whatever" after the topic so anyone who wants can look at the post to see exactly how the suggester made the suggestion for the topic.

Second - I think at the top of the first post in the thread there should be some general guidelines - responses to the challenge topics (and I like topic better than prompt) must be western genre, set in (and here's the first issue) the American West (west of the Mississippi River) or comparable areas of Canada and Mexico (but some people might want to write about Florida or Australia or the Argentine pampas, etc.) and set during the period of expansion and development defined as from the Alamo to the Mexican Revolution - (1836 to 1920) (second issue - classic westerns are 1860-1890, but there are also people writing more modern westerns. The time period I listed is considered the stretched definition for classic westerns). Posts must incorporate some elements of traditional westerns but can include supernatural, spirit world, or extra-terrestial elements if desired.

Rather than saying please do not post first drafts, I'd consider instead wording it something like, please be considerate of those who will be reading and commenting on your post and take the time to proofread and correct simple mistakes before posting.

Next - on the please don't post a re-draft immediately after a crit, I'd think about something like - please take the time to think about crits before posting a re-write. Too many re-writes in one thread loses readers.

On the warning in the thread title - some people have no problem reading erotica but are squeamish about blood; some can handle grizzly scalpings but not having an animal tortured; some don't want to read the F word or religion based profanity, etc. I think it's probably better to give some hint of what type of possibly objectionable material might be in the thread.

You're doing a good job, Harry. Keep after it. Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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Have made some changes and incorporated some of your suggestions, Puma. :)

Personally, I think a simple format works better. Each month we unsticky the old prompt and post the new. This way things are easy and accessible and any discussion of the prompt will always be current.

Once again, not set in stone, but this looks good to me. :)



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October Prompt: Western Ghost Story


Set between— 1870 to the present. You are allowed ghosts, monsters, vampires, etc. It has to have a western setting or theme; meaning (just for an example) an old west town still in its hay-day— for a classical western setting or a ghost town for a present day setting. Word count should top out at about 2000 to 4000 words. The Prompt ends November first. - CDaniel

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Monthly prompt guidelines:

- Any type of Western is admissible - classic, modern, revisionist - and elements of other genres are welcomed, but your piece must have the majority of its boot in the Western genre.

- Please label your entry in the following format.

- <Month> Prompt: <Title> (<Type of Piece> - <Word Count> - <Content Warning (if necessary))>

- For Example:

- October Prompt: The Pumpkin Cowboy (WIP Scene - 2000 Words - Adult Content)

- The approximate length of your piece should be defined in the prompt. But, if it isn't, please do not exceed 5000 words.

- Consider posting a short introduction to your piece if you feel it necessary. Also, consider telling those who will be critting you whether you are posting for fun or with a more professional intent.

- Please do not post first drafts and take the time to proofread and correct simple mistakes before posting.

- Please keep re-writes in the same thread as the original work and take the time to think about crits before posting a re-write.

- Please try to crit everyone who takes part in the prompt.

- Once you are happy with your work, why not check out the Markets for Westerns thread to have a look-see about sending it out somewhere.

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Puma

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Now, to add some more fuel to the fire - is your thought to have the prompt here in western genre or (and/or) in western SYW?

I can see having a set up much like historical with prompts added as the months go on here in genre and only the monthly prompt stickied in SYW. That way, newcomers have two chances to see it. What do you think? Puma
 

HarryHoskins

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Yes, I was thinking of posting in both genre and SYW. However, I hadn't thought of the two separate threads you mention. I think that is an excellent idea as it covers all bases. The SYW is quick, easy and to the point and the genre one is more detailed and thorough. We can then link the full version to the simplified one for those who want more information & history.

So, just to confirm, are we saying the simple monthly prompt and guidelines in the SYW and a more detailed and archived one in the genre ... that about right? :)