Rewrite is 180,000 words (down to 178,000 now)

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MilkChocolate

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Seriously. 180,000 words.

I...can someone either encourage or discourage me? I just don't even know.

It went so fast. Did NOT seem like that many words.

I am going to edit it, obviously, and am most likely looking at, yet another, massive rewrite.

Has anyone experienced similar angst? Why do I have so many words?

It doesn't matter what genre it is, either, because that is an asinine amount of wordage.

Basically, this thing is a massive tome, and I would love to hear that someone has tackled this issue and come out the other side with a finished product. You don't even have to have had it published. Just finished. That would make me happy.

I'm currently on hiatus from writing. I am deleting unnecessary 'that's and redundancies, but shit. I don't feel good about this, guys.

Thanks for listening to me bitch.

Sincerely,
-I hate myself right now.
 

rwm4768

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One of the epic fantasies in my signature was originally 207,000 words. Now it's down to 160,000. Obviously, that's still long, but it's a lot shorter than it was. I had to go through and look at things both on a sentence-by-sentence and scene-by-scene level. There were, of course, places that I could tighten the prose. However, there were also scenes that weren't really necessary or that dragged on longer than they needed to.

Go through your manuscript and ask yourself if every scene you've written is necessary, and if it's as tight as it can be. Make sure you start as late as possible and end as early as possible. No need for throat clearing to open a scene or rambling on because you haven't figured out how to end it.

You should, of course, keep a copy of the original document. Just in case you're not happy with the changes you've made.
 

chompers

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Sorry, can't be of much help to you. I tend to fall on the short side and have to beef it up during edits. But I just wanted to say you are funny. Oh yeah, and to wish you much luck. :D
 

MilkChocolate

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I - good heavens.



oh, now...:Hug2:
ETA: How many words were you hoping for?

Haha, thanks for that. I was hoping for 120k. That would have been manageable. This feels like pure insanity.

One of the epic fantasies in my signature was originally 207,000 words. Now it's down to 160,000. Obviously, that's still long, but it's a lot shorter than it was. I had to go through and look at things both on a sentence-by-sentence and scene-by-scene level. There were, of course, places that I could tighten the prose. However, there were also scenes that weren't really necessary or that dragged on longer than they needed to.

Go through your manuscript and ask yourself if every scene you've written is necessary, and if it's as tight as it can be. Make sure you start as late as possible and end as early as possible. No need for throat clearing to open a scene or rambling on because you haven't figured out how to end it.

You should, of course, keep a copy of the original document. Just in case you're not happy with the changes you've made.

Thank you!

Yeah, I know there are scenes I can get rid of, there are characters who aren't necessary, etc. Stupidly, never thought of starting each scene where it should start. I think I've done that, but I'm sure I haven't.

Still, when I do ALL of that...I just hope it's enough.

Ideally, it would be less than 100,000. My first draft was, like 90,000.

You may be wondering how did I manage to add twice the amount of words? Well, it's a series. I figured that the original book I had written was the second book. It felt like a second book.

So THEN I decided, hey, why not incorporate elements of what I imagined would be the first book into this second book that I had? But it would still be the first book, if that makes sense. So I did that. Oh, and the manuscript needed re-written from scratch anyway, so why not, right?

I wanted two separate books, however, I didn't have two separate story arcs. (Make that three because I have three POV characters).

So here I am. I wrote my first and second book together instead of separately, and now I'm screwed. I would love to split it into two, but I really can't. I have a huge plot point that needs to be revealed later in the first book, or the story would suck even more than it already sucks, so...

Whew. There it is. The story of my story.

I have to get to bed, I'm driving myself crazier.
 

RikWriter

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Shrug. The finished product of the last book in my SF series was 186,000 words. The story is as long as it needs to be. If you feel like you left in unnecessary stuff, cut it out. But don't cut something out for the sake of cutting.
 

BethS

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Seriously. 180,000 words.

I...can someone either encourage or discourage me? I just don't even know.

It went so fast. Did NOT seem like that many words.

I am going to edit it, obviously, and am most likely looking at, yet another, massive rewrite.

Has anyone experienced similar angst? Why do I have so many words?

It doesn't matter what genre it is, either, because that is an asinine amount of wordage.

Basically, this thing is a massive tome, and I would love to hear that someone has tackled this issue and come out the other side with a finished product. You don't even have to have had it published. Just finished. That would make me happy.

I'm currently on hiatus from writing. I am deleting unnecessary 'that's and redundancies, but shit. I don't feel good about this, guys.

Thanks for listening to me bitch.

Sincerely,
-I hate myself right now.

Relax. 178K is not that big. In the fantasy genre it would not be at all unusual.

As for trimming, look for big things to cut first. Unnecessary scenes, or scenes that run too long. Sub-plots that don't really contribute. When it's time to start combing through it word by word, post some in SYW to get in idea of what some of your particular wordiness issues might be.
 

Lillith1991

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I dread the day when I will be that far into one of my novels. Seems a scary place to be, even worse than the Bloody Mary episode of Supernatural.
 

Hillsy7

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Firstly - I agree with Rik...a book is as long as it needs to be. Just make sure everything's where it should be and deserves to be included. Deal with a high word count.

The Second thing is genre. Thrillers tend to be shorter for a reason - to rip through plot and keep the tension/action high. So if your writing a Thriller and it comes in at 180K+ then make sure you're not writing at a too sedentary pace (I mean you throw in enough twists and action and I reckon you could keep the pace for 180K - would be tough though). Fantasy and Sci-fi? I consider 500 pages a minimum requirement for a fantasy novel if I'm trawling the book shelves. My first completed MS was 287004 words and (Science Fantasy). I cut some chapters and purple prose and knocked it back to 206K. I trunked it after that, but if I went back and re-wrote it now that I'm much better, I still reckon I'd only trim another 10-15K. And I'd argue to my hind teeth that the each scene is necessary. World building takes time and I'm suspicious of any book where there doesn't seem to be enough space for good Plot, Action and World building.
 

Bufty

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All I can suggest is to be ultra critical and keep asking-

Is this sentence needed? Does the reader need to know all this? Does this move the story along? Is this sentence clear and what I meant to say?

I took 100,000 words down to 52,000!

Good luck.
 

dondomat

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Eh, contemporary popular thrillers are rarely under 200 000 words, Patterson excluded.
Steve King's longer ones hover around 400 000.
We live in a unique time when successful genre fiction can be from 10 000 words a 'book' long (Wool), to half a million words (Song of Ice and Fire).
Don't chase imaginary word-count ceiling--just write the book the way only you could have written it. Not only can't you predict which formats and plots will be popular by the time it's published--you can't even predict the state of the market--which publishers will be rising, which falling, how will the digital vs paper book sales align... So do your best and that's that.

....

I took 100,000 words down to 52,000!

...

You go get them, Bufty! Super tightened prose is a gift to the world.
 
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WriteMinded

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Seriously. 180,000 words.

I...can someone either encourage or discourage me? I just don't even know.

Has anyone experienced similar angst? . . .


. . . and I would love to hear that someone has tackled this issue and come out the other side with a finished product. You don't even have to have had it published. Just finished. That would make me happy. . .
Haha. I feel your pain, :Hug2: and I'd like to make you happy, but my last attempt to shorten my 147k MS increased the word count by about almost 1k. :tongue
 

VoireyLinger

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Ouch.

Without seeing the manuscript, I can only offer general points based on common problems.

Is the book starting in the right place? Can any pre-conflict setup and weave in important back story points as they become relevant instead. I once deleted 15K of irrelevant setup.

Do you have gratuitous scenes? Scenes should all build plot. If it's designed to fill time or a void, or to build character, it's probably unneeded and can be deleted. You might be able to combine plot points into one scene, as well.

Do you overwrite? Big, flowery sentences, huge chunks of description, and sections where action stops for a page of introspection can all be trimmed back.

Is your writing tight? Are there any extra words in your sentences, words you can remove and not change the meaning of the sentence. A word here and there might not seem like much, but five words per page over a 178K manuscript will be over 3K words.
 

Reziac

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It should be as long as it needs to be; no longer, and no shorter. I am not a fan of guillotine editing. Excess words can go; redundancies can go. Scenes that develop something, tho -- I'm not in favor of cutting 'em. That something may be plot, character, setting -- just so long as it builds rather than repeats.

And as a reader, I am not in a hurry to reach the end of a book I'm enjoying. Too long? Whuzzat??

Also, I rather like the notion of what amounts to two intertwined books becoming a single book, which seems to be what you accomplished.
 
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Wilde_at_heart

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You may be wondering how did I manage to add twice the amount of words? Well, it's a series. I figured that the original book I had written was the second book. It felt like a second book. I did this too. There was so much that 'happened' before my WIP, that I realised needed to be told somehwere

So THEN I decided, hey, why not incorporate elements of what I imagined would be the first book into this second book that I had?I think this is where you went wrong. I just began writing a 'prequel' But it would still be the first book, if that makes sense. So I did that. Oh, and the manuscript needed re-written from scratch anyway, so why not, right?

I wanted two separate books, however, I didn't have two separate story arcs. (Make that three because I have three POV characters). Are there any shorter arcs that could be resolved in one?

So here I am. I wrote my first and second book together instead of separately, and now I'm screwed. I would love to split it into two, but I really can't. I have a huge plot point that needs to be revealed later in the first book, or the story would suck even more than it already sucks, so...

Whew. There it is. The story of my story.

I have to get to bed, I'm driving myself crazier.

Without knowing how everything is paced and so on, I've no idea whether the various story arcs can be disentangled or not. Have you done an outline or chapter summary? I found it helped, at any rate, to write one, then take a few days off, then look at what could be tossed, merged or worked in earlier.

Good luck!

I hit 120K words for one still-incomplete WIP and balked, decided to trim before going any further. And now have a graveyard full of darlings. And more graves to dig.
 
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mirandashell

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The only time I don't like a long book is when it's too heavy to hold up. E-readers don't have that problem.

Don't trim for sake of trimming. If you know that every scene is there because it should be then the story is as long as it should be.
 

JackdeNileth

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I am going to edit it, obviously, and am most likely looking at, yet another, massive rewrite.
You might want to get someone's elses opinion on the story before you accidentially butcher it. If you told everything that needed to be told without adding too much padding, then why try to cut it down?

My first book (which I'm almost done revising for the first time) has also turned out to be 130K words long, but I don't see much that could be cut. Still have to get other people's opinion, of course, but I doubt that it will get much smaller, especially because its the first part in series.

You could try to cut the book into two, though. But only if you manage to find a spot that works as an ending. Maybe a good cliffhanger or something.
 

dondomat

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The old informal standard of "around 80 000--100 000" words for a beginner novel was the result of a publishing scene which is no longer there. It had to do with shelf-space, printing costs, etc--way back when brick and mortar stores were the only outlet and paper was the only format. And even then this was not set in stone. Today nothing is set in stone. Nor brick. Nor mortar.
 

rwm4768

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You could try to cut the book into two, though. But only if you manage to find a spot that works as an ending. Maybe a good cliffhanger or something.

I would avoid using a cliffhanger to end a book. It's a good way to make readers angry. And then they might never buy the next book because they figure you'll do the same thing to them again.
 

Ride the Pen

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It takes some perseverence to finish a manuscript like that, congrats!

How "commercially" are you thinking? How bad do you want this to be published and also sold?

I'm asking because there are certainly great novels that are longer than yours. I'm not sure how many words the Buddenbrooks have, or Stephen King's "The Stand". Or Ken Folleth's novels (never read them though). So if publishing and selling is not that important to you, maybe you don't have to cut it down that much.

Chances are though, that there is more stuff in there than is good for you... you can get a sheet and just write down the whole plot and make kind of a diagram out of it. Then you have an overview and can decide better what to cut.

Sleep on it for some days at least, so you settle a bit and sound less desperate and can think clearer. Then create your overview and cut scenes, if necessary. After that, make a plan for how to shorten the scenes which are left. Then re-write accordingly.

If your plot is quite complex and after that little inventory many scenes have to be re-written, then, sorry to say that, but it will make for a much smoother work process and smoother finished novel to just re-write the whole thing.

But that's ok too, although at first you will feel like crying: I re-wrote one novel four times. The advantages was: I knew my characters really well the last time, and also the plot (details were a lot easier to create, because I could have recited the basics in my sleep).

So go on, because if you have enough endurance to write a novel that long, I'm absolutely sure you can rewrite it! IF it is necessary!

All the best!
 
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gp101

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From 180 to 178? Sound more like you "edited" out some clunkiness and otherwise extraneous passages rather than really, truly "revising." Without reading your manny I'm assuming you have one or more of the following challenges: lots of dense text with specific, maybe overly done universe building, description, character introspection; considerable sidetracks, meanderings, adventures to show character rather than advance story; more than one or two subplots that may or may not have bearing on the main plot, but in either case can be shortened or combined; explicatory passages to enlighten a reader as to why things are happening because you don't trust the reader to get it on their own.

Just guesses and hope at least one of them helped. A neat exercise you can try is working backwards. I read in the past that some (very patient, I would assume) writers read their novels one sentence at a time from the last in the novel to the first. This makes no sense to me. However, I tried reading my novel in reverse, from the last chapter back to the first and that was quite helpful. I even start on the last scene of the last chapter and work my way backwards (after I've revised the traditional route first--that's important, in making this a last step).

That helps me isolate scenes from their previous ones in the plot and helps me better judge them on their own merit. Anything I cut I save to a separate file. After I finish this particular revision, I re-read the whole thing from the true beginning to the end, and if the plot or character seems inconsistent, then I look over the scenes I cut (saved in that separate file) and bring the relative ones back in. I almost never have to re-introduce those saved scenes however. It's a good way of making each scene earn its value, or cutting "junk" from a particular scene.

That method won't work for everyone, but it works for me.
 
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jeffo20

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Just so you'll feel better: my current project ended its rough draft at 120,000 words. When I landed my agent, it was 108,000. When we went out on submission the first time, it was down to 106K. I'm in the midst of some more revision work and it has already expanded by about 2000 words, and is likely to expand a little more. I think of my manuscripts as being a bit like accordions, stretching and squeezing, squeezing and stretching. It's all part of the process.

The point is, it can be done. You've received some great advice here about things to look for for cutting. I also note you say you're on hiatus from writing, and that might also be a good thing--take a break, let it sit for a couple of weeks, then come back at it with a fresh eye--that's often a good way to see what needs to get zorched. Good luck!
 

Readable Joe

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FWithout reading your manny I'm assuming you have one or more of the following challenges: lots of dense text with specific, maybe overly done universe building, description, character introspection; considerable sidetracks, meanderings, adventures to show character rather than advance story; more than one or two subplots that may or may not have bearing on the main plot, but in either case can be shortened or combined; explicatory passages to enlighten a reader as to why things are happening because you don't trust the reader to get it on their own.

Sorry...why is an adventure to show character rather than advance story such a no-no?
Is a scene's only purpose to advance a plot? I'm not buying that.
 

Bufty

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You assume too much.

Nobody is saying such scenes are wrong or a no-no. It's only a suggestion among many as to things that may contribute to wordiness and might be eligible for cutting without directly affecting the story.

Sorry...why is an adventure to show character rather than advance story such a no-no?
Is a scene's only purpose to advance a plot? I'm not buying that.
 
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