Keeping At It

Batspan

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So, Tom Knighton posted this in Recectomancy:
www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=91 The goal motivation issue is timely.

Curious how the rest of you get through these times where it becomes difficult to continue.

I've been pulling on my professionalism. I've had multiple careers where sticking it no matter what's going on is required. So I keep creating goals and going for them, even though challenging events have required a lot of goal revision.

So what are your favorite methods for keeping at it?
 

Aislinn

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Great idea for a thread :)

I think professionalism is a great approach, especially if you've had success in another career. Those work habits and ways of dealing with people will take you far.

I have a similar approach, except that I've also consciously undertaken an 'apprenticeship'. A couple of years ago I had the revelation that most published authors are not born with their writing skills (which took me into my 30s unfortunately.) After that, I decided to spend 4 years learning the craft as seriously as if I was back at University. But I didn't want to go back to University, so it's all been self-directed.

I'm 2 years in, and when I feel low I try to remind myself I'm still an 'apprentice' (though with the growing suspicion I always will be in many senses). I also remind myself how far I've come and of the milestones I've achieved that I didn't expect to.

I hope that by the end of my 4 years, write/revise/submit/repeat will be so ingrained that I just keep doing it. I also hope to have a pro sale or two under my belt to prove how effective the approach has been.... but maybe I'm getting ahead of myself there ;)
 

fihr

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Hmm… I'm one of those writers who gets cranky when life means I can't write. I hate not having a story on the go, even though I take ages to revise them. I get a lot of ideas during the revision process, often after I think I've written everything I can, so my stories kind of simmer away.

I'm like you, Aislinn. Can't go back to University - my kids are being educated now (primary school), not me. So my education is self-directed. I do courses when I can, when they're relevant to my goals. Unfortunately, I can't control the speed of the learning process.

Haven't had a problem keeping going so far. I have a really long term outlook - basically, I know that my kids will limit my time for a long time to come, but, if I continue to write in the gaps, then I will be a far better writer at the end of that than if I'd given up.

The challenge for me this year will be keeping going while living in a state of upheaval. I'll be co-ordinating my house renovation, and it's going to have to take priority at times.

To keep fluency going through that time, I might just hit the notebooks and do timed writing, if I can't do anything else.
 

Project Deadlight

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Really good idea for a thread, partly because it is a little bit self-fulfilling in that reading threads like these is one of the things that keeps me going.

Having spent a large amount of my adult life on various (failed) creative projects, I am struck by how similar writers of all persuasions are in temperament. I think if you have this temperament you are more than likely going to rise above your rejections and keep going anyway regardless. Quiet self-belief, for want of a better expression. Or glutton for punishment to steal one from the existing collection.

It's why I struggle to say anything constructive if a writer starts getting depressed after a year of rejections. You have to sort of LOVE rejection and see it as part of the eternal learning process. And I'm firmly of the opinion that if you stop getting rejections at any point, you are now of the class that can sell their shopping lists and are probably, at least some of the time, having work of dubious quality published.

One thing I do find helpful in the dark months, is always having a writer's autobiography/biography on the go. At the moment I am reading Richard Laymon's, a US horror writer who was virtually unknown in his homeland but got really big in the UK. While his actual work is of dubious quality (and his questionable politics are the subject of a blog I wrote), this limited edition book is really insightful as he was sort of successful, but sort of not. His ups and downs are very similar to what we are all going through, particularly during his early years.

I'd happily read about writers writing all day long. :)
 
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TomKnighton

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So, Tom Knighton posted this in Recectomancy:
www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=91 The goal motivation issue is timely.

Right now, that's the metric I'm using. Hence why I shared it.

I don't remember if Dean says it or not, but most pro writers who keep score allegedly maintain a Race score in the teens, with many of the more successful ones keeping it in the thirties.

Seriously, that's part of what attracted me to the W1S1 challenge. Bradbury's advice, coupled with this, seemed to make a lot of sense to me.

Now, what will keep me motivated a year from now? Hopefully paychecks :D
 

Dani79

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I agree with the apprenticeship idea. I think I've carried forward the same mentality I picked up when studying. I studied part-time while working full-time, and quitting there would have been very easy. "Nobody's going to make me do this work but me" is etched into my brain after years of that. I'm thinking of adding a corollary: "and 'good enough' isn't good enough, go back and work on it again."

If I haven't written for a while though, the best cure for me is to read. I used to be one of those people who could open a book with the intention of just reading a few pages, only to find the birds tweeting and the light breaking through the gap in the curtains as I turned the last page. Can't do it anymore. Can't read for too long before I get that itch and have to put it aside. Usually something to do with "hey, that's a neat trick that author just pulled there, I have to try that out," or, "ah, that's the style I need to use for that story, no wonder I was getting nowhere."

Besides, I love that feeling of clicking the "add new piece" button in Duotrope/The Grinder. Get withdrawal symptoms too long without it. ;)
 

Melinda Moore

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I love writing, so even if I ever quit submitting, I will always write. But I won't quit submitting because I've never quit something at a stage I don't feel I'm a success yet. And once I am a success, since I love writing, I will keep going :) (Success to me is not JK Rowling money, it's more along the lines of breaking into pro markets with short stories and and hopefully novels)

I was a musician, which I did quit doing professionally, but I have applied that practice, practice, practice ethic to my writing. I set up short term goals for myself like 10K words a week and 10 submissions made a month. When I don't make the goal, I grumble, but I love having the goal to strive for because every week and every month I push a little harder to make the goal.

What's been getting me down more recently is crit group rather than rejections from editors. I get back manuscripts with so many word choices changed and sentences rearranged that I began to wonder how I've ever sold anything if my word to word is so bad. After a year of that, I've decided to take several months off and focus on writing and submitting. I feel like a baby when I can't take the criticism, but on the other hand, I miss days of writing sometimes because I get so hung up on what somebody said. I guess I prefer the more general comments of editors when they have the time. Following some of those has gotten me publication at a later venue.

I guess overall writing is a tricky balance of what keeps you pushing and what keeps you improving. And lots and lots of chocolate :)
 

Batspan

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Great responses, thanks all. So much here I relate to. Keeping at it via apprenticeship, goal tracking, keeping score and reading about other writers -- and yes, reading threads like these.

I opted for the 'do it harder' method and got out four more subs, three of them to pro publications I haven't tried before, and one of them a new flash.

As I kept mulling this over, the things that are working best for me are keeping my commitment to having at least five subs out to pro editors, and diversifying. Some of my best responses have come from my first sub to an editor, and two of my three most recent fiction sales were first subs to those publishers.

I'll experiment with ways to increase production and submissions. A good point in the DWS method -- providing the work is publishable and aimed well, doing more of it will improve the odds.

So I have eight stories out to pro editors, and I tightened all the recent ones before I sent them out. Ala Dani's point about improving.

Melinda -- Getting everyone else's crits out of your head can be a good process. It took me a long time to recover from years of workshopping as a student and then as an instructor. I've been having fun running stories through editminion.com. Polish My Writing.com is the one I use for NF.
 
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fihr

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If I haven't written for a while though, the best cure for me is to read.

Me too, especially when I can't write much because I'm on holidays or something. In those times, I like to read lots. There's that feeling of being envious of the author's ability sometimes - that's when I have to remind myself not to compare, and that it took them unseen years to get to where they are with whatever I'm reading. Then there's the feeling of inspiration when I return from having been buried in something wonderful, or even better, a whole bunch of wonderful, one book after another.

When I'm struggling with my own writing, I like to be sure I'm reading enough then too. Especially well-written books. It really helps me relax with my own use of language.

Melinda: I feel for you with that crit group experience, especially receiving what sounds like rewritten stuff, not just comments. I don't know the context of your crit group, but I think no one will have your voice but you, so some others will always rewrite if given the chance, because they've got their own voice too, which is just their preference.

Batspan: Interesting to hear it took you a long time to get crit group voices out of your head!

I've had to give up both my writing groups this year (one an ongoing class, one a crit group), thanks to other demands on my time. The class was built around encouragement, and it was often the thing that picked me up when I was feeling let down by rejections.
 

Batspan

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Fihr -- It probably took me so long to decompress because I drew out my degree for the maximum number of years. :) There was a whole mindset with workshopping and teaching, so getting back to my zone went beyond getting voices and criticisms out of my head. I managed to be productive in spite of all that, though.

I'm prone to overthinking, so I have to shut all that off and let fly when I write.

I value the guidance I had as a student and it was good to give it back -- scoring teaching jobs at my university during my last semesters in the MFA program was great at the time -- yet I was beyond fried by the end of it.

I put myself through short story boot camp (solo) when I decided to re-enter the marketing fray last spring. A hard-core review -- and ongoing reading -- helps me stay grounded and get back to the basics when I'm having a challenge with fiction. I will still stop and analyze the plot, in addition to going over every word when I think a story may be falling short. (What, you, back again?!) Yet I'm more focused now on moving forward with new work.

Who was it who said: the only opinion that matters is that of an editor who might buy the story? Something like that.

Melinda's post reminded me of how I sometimes feel when I see a bunch of edits on my work (NF). Working with a skilled editor leaves me inspired and using what I learned. It's one of the best experiences for making a piece stronger. Working with amateurs, nah.
 

Izz

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Typically what gets me down isn't writing, but selling.

When i'm down, what works for me is to reflect on how much i love writing. I love it when random ideas begin to take shape in my head and form the basis for a story. I love when a story takes an unexpected twist, and when characters come to life. I love putting all that on paper/screen. I love editing, sentence by sentence, paragraph by paragraph, cutting and rearranging. I love the feeling when a story is complete.

I primarily write for myself, not other people. Trying to sell a story seems like a natural progression, but really, if i were the last person on earth, i'd still write. Reminding myself of that helps me keep things in perspective when i face long periods without a sale.
 

TomKnighton

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Personally, I imagine what a sale is like...




...the check is delivered by Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders skydiving onto my lawn with the check and really good rum, right? Right?
 

Izz

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Personally, I imagine what a sale is like...




...the check is delivered by Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders skydiving onto my lawn with the check and really good rum, right? Right?
Yes, that's exactly what it's like.
 

Melinda Moore

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LOL@ Tom and Izz

@ Fihr and Batspan Yes, I think it was a clash of the voices. Reflecting on it, some of my stories I wanted to have long flowing sentences like Daphne Du Maurier and they wanted to chop them all up to make them short and impacting. I understood their point, but it wasn't necessarily what I was aiming for in every story. We'll see now if my sentences get way unwieldy on my own :)
 

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Go for it Melinda, unwieldy sentences rock!

Or to put it another way: I just read a Catherynne M. Valente story with 100-plus-word sentences in it. After they finished smacking me across the face with their prettiness, they left me feeling vaguely drunk. More please.

I primarily write for myself, not other people. Trying to sell a story seems like a natural progression, but really, if i were the last person on earth, i'd still write. Reminding myself of that helps me keep things in perspective when i face long periods without a sale.

Well said! I'm furthest away from self-doubt and submission-induced-doldrums when I'm deep in a draft. :)
 

dachshund

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I've had at least 300 rejections since my last sale. Can't suggest much. I send in a few here and there and work on other stuff on occasion. I feel more inclined toward poetry these days, and have been doing a little bit of that.
 

Batspan

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Izz -- Excellent. Yes, I keep writing -- it's keeping at the submissions that's a challenge, especially given that it's not going as well as I hoped in terms of sales. I've written a few novels I've never sent to anyone. So I'm well-practiced at writing because it's what I do, separate from the issue of whether any of it reaches anyone.

Melinda -- I was thinking of long sentences. I enjoy the extension in the work of Faulkner and Charles Olson where the sentences go on at amazing length. I reread Rebecca recently. Copywriting and writing for online zines, I work in shorter sentences and paragraphs. In my Gothic I get a more breathing room because it's set in the 19th century. Enjoy the freedom of writing without critics. :)

Tom -- Yes, you nailed it. I can already hear your yahooooooos!
 

Aggy B.

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I find the whole "treat it like a job" works well for me. Not only in an organizational sense, but it keeps me from wallowing in the whole "But these words are all stupid!" quicksand. (Well, most of the time anyway.) Because a job is something that I do even when I'm not feeling the touch of the muse. A job is something where the work is getting the words written, while getting published/paid is a bonus aspect. (So, less pressure to get every damned word right the first time.)

I also have a list of people to prove wrong. Folks who I am determined to spite by doing exceedingly well at this writing thing. (No one in here, btw.) On the days when I can't avoid the "OMG! I suck" mire, I focus on being absolutely successful and sending autographed copies of my novels to folks who disparaged my writing in the past.

Aggy, stubborn and perverse
 

fihr

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it keeps me from wallowing in the whole "But these words are all stupid!" quicksand. (Well, most of the time anyway.) Because a job is something that I do even when I'm not feeling the touch of the muse.

Love that quicksand. Yeah, I don't wait for the muse either. The muse turns up at different stages anyway. (Most of the time.) Sometimes when I think I'm done.

I also have a list of people to prove wrong. Folks who I am determined to spite by doing exceedingly well at this writing thing. (No one in here, btw.) On the days when I can't avoid the "OMG! I suck" mire, I focus on being absolutely successful and sending autographed copies of my novels to folks who disparaged my writing in the past.

Excellent!
 

Batspan

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Aggie -- Terrific, thanks! Attitude and motivation. Spiting the naysayers made me smile. "(So, less pressure to get every damned word right the first time.)" I'm still working on that. I put a lot of pressure on myself to nail it.

Well, all -- The doing-it-harder approach moved some energy. Thanks for all the inspiring posts. I have 10 stories out now.

I managed to ease up on the editing. I went over them carefully a few times each, yet less than usual. A few months ago I screwed up a light flash by overworking it, so I made myself stop editing and send them out.

I think I'm getting better at identifying that optimum zone for working on a story to hone it, without going so far I risk messing it up. I'm getting stories out to editors sooner, instead of hanging on to them for ages.
 

Aislinn

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Well, all -- The doing-it-harder approach moved some energy. Thanks for all the inspiring posts. I have 10 stories out now.

That's great!


I think I'm getting better at identifying that optimum zone for working on a story to hone it, without going so far I risk messing it up. I'm getting stories out to editors sooner, instead of hanging on to them for ages.
I have to edit a lot, but after a certain point I can see I'm just changing words around (and maybe the next day changing them back.) Most stories eventually reach a point where, when they're rejected, I think to myself 'Yep, I still like it,' and send it out as is. That's my gold standard for now!

On keeping at it, I had my first couple of days of paid work this week since my youngest was born, and it's been pretty full-on. I do have a story idea I'd like to work on so I hope to get a draft done over the weekend and prove to myself I can write alongside paid work. (And kids - but have been writing alongside them for a while now.)
 

Batspan

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Dachshund -- I read somewhere it took Gene Wolfe 8 years to break in. That still appalls me. He's phenomenal and I'm glad he stuck it out. His work mattered to me a lot and if he hadn't persisted, none of us would have had the chance to read him.

Poetry is a whole other flow -- it might give you a different experience. Early on, I lucked onto a local university lit journal that published nearly every poem I sent them. May you find your place.

Aislinn -- Thanks for the encouragement, and good plan to get the draft out over the weekend. Make it so! (I couldn't resist).

Given that you can write with wee people about, I have every confidence you'll take this paying work thing in stride. Yes, once I feel solid with a story I let it be for a couple subs or longer, although I often reread the ones that keep coming back, to see if there's anything I can improve.

It is a challenge managing job and creativity. I've been doing a new strategy of fiction early in the day and copywriting later. The 'life's short, eat dessert' first method. The happy thing is the disposition improvement. The tough part is all I want to do is live in fiction.

Subbed a full-length contemporary fantasy today -- different from anything else I've done.

PD was right, a thread like this is a self-fulfilling prophesy. I'm out to get all the stories into circulation. I have a few I set aside for revision or that aren't complete -- I figure the more I get out, the better.
 
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Hapax Legomenon

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I don't know. Though I don't have much to show for it, I guess I had never really considered writing as a choice.