Different outlining question

I try to mix things a bit. I usually know the beggining and the end of a story before sitting down to write it, but there are several pieces missing, and this is when I go completely by the seat of my pants.

I basically can't flesh out a whole story if I am not writing it, so sticking to a loose outline only to give me the starting point and a north seems to work. I do it much like you.

I do the notecard method, but with real notecards (I find it easier to move them.
Then I write down the characters motivations and plans they need. This keeps from diverting off.

I say this: The ending should be all up in the air for the first draft. Don't outline, just keep a rough idea. Let the characters do what they want. Take your time and don't pressure yourself to end it.

Later, in the other drafts, you can touch on this.


To scene selection, I always find this method good:
Write the scene as a entrance and a exit. "Man walks into debate, wins it".
This is open, so you can fill in the blanks however you feel like it, but you know that it starts and ends in a certain way. The details in between are foggy, but rough enough so you can write other scenes easily.

I outline more than I used to, but it's still only very rough. A basic idea of the story, plus a few events that need to happen and when they need to happen, and then I let the characters do the rest.

For my current WIP I wrote an outline, departed somewhat during the first draft and now have made an outline of what I actually wrote. Looking at this outline helps me see gaps in the story and in various character story arcs. I will now go back and "fill in" the outline in places and move bits and pieces around as I rework the story. It's my variation of "bookend" outlining.

Can you stand another opinion? I say, try it, but with a caveat: If you pen that ending outline and you find yourself resisting it, or your characters do--they tend to do that on occassion--give yourself permission to take your story another way. At the very least, allow for wiggle room. Funny thing about writing, we imagine a story and start writing the thing and the next thing you know, the story we imagined is out the window. Sometimes, anyway.

I've never used an outline. I probably could have saved myself a lot of heartache and grief, then again, maybe not. . .

Trust your gut but allow for creativity or whatever that thing is that moves you to take your story and your characters this way, when you planned to take them that way. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you a lot of luck with it.

It sounds nearly-kinda-sorta like what I do when I outline. (I switch between pantsing and outlining according to my whim with each project.)

When I do outline, it's loose and baggy and changeable. Events, very loosely described. The why of these events, I leave up to the characters. I tell them what happens, they tell me why they happen. And how.

Most of the time, whether I outline or pants it, I know what the ending is. I just don't always know how I'll get there. That's the characters' job.

So, try it. It might work. If it doesn't, what have you lost?

I almost never outline. The closest I get to an outline is a loose handful of story points I connect as I go. Outlines would only slow me down and hem me in, and eventually, like yours, my characters would break down the wall and stampede out of it.

Actually, your 'bookend' outlining doesn't seem so far removed from what I do, as, typically speaking, the only parts I have any real plan for are the beginning and the end.

I often rework my outline half way through. Not entirely, but I change things around, add and subtract. Works for me.

Virgilante said:

I can only stick with the outline for eight or ten chapters. The characters take over, and the story evolves on its own. My next two efforts were greatly improved though.

I could do "bookend" outlining. Stick with the outline, let the characters develop the tale, then make an outline for the last ten chapters. (Too late this time)

Has anyone experimented with anything like this? What were your results?

Click to expand...

To some extent having your characters take over is desirable both for the realism of the story and the fun you have of writing it.

My outlining depends on two things:
- how many characters are going to play roles
- how intricate I'm making the antagonist

Usually I start off by writing a couple thousand word summary of what happens and who the main characters are (their issues, bad habits, redeeming qualities, and connections.) If that's not enough (Because of one of the two above issues) then I do character sheets, that explain backgrounds, motivations, favorite things they say, all the way down to favorite foods... I may or may not use all of it, but it keeps me from mixing the chars up.

I don't think there is a problem with, as I see it, using an end of story outline, to get everyone back in line for your big ending.

I have never done an outline after I started writing the MS though. Once the train leaves the station I want to keep it going... stopping to write another outline seems to stop all your momentum.

Good luck

I generally know where my characters start and where they end, but I leave a lot open in between the two. This allows my stories to go interesting places sometimes.

I call this "just in time" outlining. I will start with an outline of the whole story, but the further from the start it goes the less detailed it will be. I will know what the ending is basically, but exactly how it happens may only come to me later. (Not always, sometimes I know the ending exactly, and the story absolutely must form itself around that ending. But that's rare.)

As I write I start to firm up the details of the next few scenes. And I continually tweak the outline to account for the way the story is actually happening now that it's prose not notes. The outline evolves the whole time I'm drafting.

I do outline the story within an inch of its life, but when it comes to actually writing it, it will outgrow those confines. It's still nice to have that certainty to fall back on if things start to get ridiculous.

The only time I outline is when I need it. That typically happens when I find that I'm rewriting the same thing six ways to no-where. When I do it, I only outline the key elements that I need to get across to the reader for the plot to move on. Secondary to that is the elements I want to bring out in the chapter, things that can be thrown under a bus if necessary. Apart from that, chars do the rest.

Just goes to show that everybody works in whatever way works for them.

Here's a parallell current thread in the Basic Writing Questions Forum

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7519380#post7519380