Women novelists writing a story through the POV of a man

Both POV's are neat to work with. It'd be kinda too limiting to just write in one.

I think the key to writing characters is to make them distinct individuals and not gender stereotypes. Sure, the genders have generalities, tendencies, attitudes, experiences, and instincts that are different, but you can't apply them to an individual, only to the general population.

For instance, men are taller than women. That's a generality that's true, but not all men are taller than all women.

I write female MCs, with secondary POVs sometimes male.

It does seem easier to write the male mc. As someone mentioned before, that is unfortunately the blank slate and it's easier because we've experienced more media and books in the male pov. I won't lie, even I have my own preconceived notions on how a female should act that I try to overcome in my writing.

Some female posters said men and women tend to think alike anyway and so write men. No offense, but I'm usually disappointed when female authors decide to write male POVs because there seems to be a lack of books written in female pov that isn't romance. Too often, even in newer books, is the female still the princess, damsel, or mother. The coolest roles still seem to belong to the males. It's batman and some chick. It's superman and damsel Lois lane. It's the avengers, the one woman not super powered at all.

I sometimes imagine how cool it would've been JK Rowling had made HP a girl. The idea that a main female MC could become so popular globally would have been amazing. It also troubles me that if that had been the case, HP wouldn't have been as popular, since males find the female so difficult to relate to, but females don't because their brought up by media to accept it.

Also, just a note to add that how convincing the POV is or isn't, that's for the readers to say, not the writer. Someone believing they write the opposite sex POV (or any other different POV) convincingly isn't the same as the reader believing they do. And of course there's overlap on all of it. But what counts isn't whether or not it's possible, but if it rings true to the reader vs. not ringing true and taking them out of the story.

If in doubt, I'd just run it by some betas of the sex (or of whatever difference) you're trying to portray. They are the ones likely to notice if anything is "off," not others of the same sex/culture/whatever as the writer. Then, I'd pay closer attention if something jumps out at more than one of them.

phantasy said:

I write female MCs, with secondary POVs sometimes male.

It does seem easier to write the male mc. As someone mentioned before, that is unfortunately the blank slate and it's easier because we've experienced more media and books in the male pov. I won't lie, even I have my own preconceived notions on how a female should act that I try to overcome in my writing.

Some female posters said men and women tend to think alike anyway and so write men. No offense, but I'm usually disappointed when female authors decide to write male POVs because there seems to be a lack of books written in female pov that isn't romance. Too often, even in newer books, is the female still the princess, damsel, or mother. The coolest roles still seem to belong to the males. It's batman and some chick. It's superman and damsel Lois lane. It's the avengers, the one woman not super powered at all.

I sometimes imagine how cool it would've been JK Rowling had made HP a girl. The idea that a main female MC could become so popular globally would have been amazing. It also troubles me that if that had been the case, HP wouldn't have been as popular, since males find the female so difficult to relate to, but females don't because their brought up by media to accept it.

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I think the problem -- as many other have expressed in this thread -- is that many female writers don't feel comfortable writing female characters. They feel comfortable writing male characters. Because just like male writers, they (we) have grown up being taught to identify with the male viewpoint.

I had this problem for a long time, too, because even though I'm a woman, I still saw female characters as "other." Because all I read were fantasy books. Adventure novels. The gang of badass heroes, plus one lady who's kinda good (Catti-brie, anyone? Black Widow?).

Putputt said:

I chose the coffee mug too...dammit, did NO ONE here go for the cosmic thing??

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yeah, but I think I may have to send it back under warranty because I can't get it to work. Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?

Kallithrix said:

I don't know about the uterus option, but I ticked the box for the cosmic c*nt upgrade

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*Ears prick up*

Oh yes? What extras does that give you? Will I be able to pick up Radio 2? Because if all I can get is Heart, I may pass.

Putputt said:

I chose the coffee mug too...dammit, did NO ONE here go for the cosmic thing??

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I'm mad I was born before they started doing uterine promotional giveaways.

Though with my (lack of) that biologically driven maternal instinct all women are supposed to have (the kind that makes women go gooey when they see a baby instead of experiencing vague worry that it will pee or barf on them), a lifetime membership in the contraceptive of the month club would have been my choice.

ViridianChick said:

I think the problem -- as many other have expressed in this thread -- is that many female writers don't feel comfortable writing female characters. They feel comfortable writing male characters. Because just like male writers, they (we) have grown up being taught to identify with the male viewpoint.

I had this problem for a long time, too, because even though I'm a woman, I still saw female characters as "other." Because all I read were fantasy books. Adventure novels. The gang of badass heroes, plus one lady who's kinda good (Catti-brie, anyone? Black Widow?).

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I totally hear you. So I'm entreating you and all the other women on this board to try writing cool MC females. Honestly, sometimes it's as easy as switching the 'he' to 'she'. And if you don't think it works for that particular character, ask yourself why. Is it really so impossible to believe or is this just stemming from your preconceived notions of how a woman should act. I know men try to write cool females from time to time, and they are cool, but very often unrelatable to most people, let alone most women. I'm thinking of those rough, tough, 'badass' cursing girls that are often more stereotypical masculine.

Kallithrix said:

I don't know about the uterus option, but I ticked the box for the cosmic c*nt upgrade

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She didn't even go for the 'Brit Humor Alert' option, folks! That's moxie.

phantasy said:

I'm thinking of those rough, tough, 'badass' cursing girls that are often more stereotypical masculine.

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I'm not very badass these days D) but I'm rough and sweary, and nowhere near alone in that.

If we're going to write female characters, we should write about all sorts of them imo. Otherwise, well, that's what stereotypes are made of.


PS If I'm "stereotypically masculine" well then, that's a problem with the stereotype. Not me.

ViridianChick said:

I think the problem -- as many other have expressed in this thread -- is that many female writers don't feel comfortable writing female characters. They feel comfortable writing male characters. Because just like male writers, they (we) have grown up being taught to identify with the male viewpoint.I had this problem for a long time, too, because even though I'm a woman, I still saw female characters as "other." Because all I read were fantasy books. Adventure novels. The gang of badass heroes, plus one lady who's kinda good (Catti-brie, anyone? Black Widow?).

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So true. And most cartoons when I was a kid, from Yogi and Boo Boo, to Mickey Mouse, to superheroes, were dominated by male characters. Even when there were female cartoon characters, they were always tokens, or just the rarely seen girlfriends of the male main characters.

And (sigh) so many of the books with adventurous girls had the whole theme about their being rebellious, and they often gave up their tomboyish ways, whether it was for the greater good, or because they hit puberty and started liking boys. It didn't make for a lot of respect for women (or men) who actually liked traditionally girlish or womanly things either.

The message was definitely that you have to choose between expressing any aspects of traditional femininity at all and being taken seriously as an autonomous, competent human being.

That's something my nieces don't seem to feel as much as my generation did. They're genuinely annoyed when there are no girl characters in a movie they watch, or if the girls in a given movie aren't doing anything interesting. And they see no conflict between doing sports, playing video games of varying kinds, participating in lego robotics competitions, wanting pink Hello Kitty backpacks for their birthdays, and spending a rainy Saturday making pretty bead bracelets.

Mr Flibble said:

I'm not very badass these days D) but I'm rough and sweary, and nowhere near alone in that.

If we're going to write female characters, we should write about all sorts of them imo. Otherwise, well, that's what stereotypes are made of.


PS If I'm "stereotypically masculine" well then, that's a problem with the stereotype. Not me.

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Yeah, I kind of guessed I'd get dinged for complaining about that. Not really saying that being that was is bad or stereotypical, I just meant they keep doing the same type. Eh, I dunno, I guess you can ignore me on that point. I'm just waiting for the day someone writes a shulbby, overweight chick with no social skills gets the guy, leads the charge and saves the day and no one complains and calls her a Mary Sue, like so many movies go.

No I get what you mean -- too much of anything ends up eye rolling

But it's a bit of a bugger when people say "Oh this is so stereotypically masculine" and you think "um...that's me..."

Also, it's not exactly fair to the men who aren't like that either!

But I do think we should be portraying all sorts of female characters (even your schlub ). We get all sorts of male characters after all. If all we get is a new pigeonhole, what's the point?

So, I do write rough, tough sweary women (because they exist, and sometimes they act like a man because, yes, its one way to be taken seriously and that's a problem, which can be tackled in the story and sometimes they act like that because, well that's who they are), but I also write women who are not those things.

Variety is the key here. And hey, a lot of women kick a bit of wish fulfilment seeing a female character kciking butt

Mr Flibble said:

yeah, but I think I may have to send it back under warranty because I can't get it to work. Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?

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Ah! I think I just heard static from MIL's uterus! She might have picked up your signal there. Say something again!

Roxxsmom said:

I'm mad I was born before they started doing uterine promotional giveaways.

Though with my (lack of) that biologically driven maternal instinct all women are supposed to have (the kind that makes women go gooey when they see a baby instead of experiencing vague worry that it will pee or barf on them), a lifetime membership in the contraceptive of the month club would have been my choice.

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Oooh, why don't they have contraceptive of the month clubs?? "Only in April, Mickey Mouse-shaped condoms!"

ViridianChick said:

I think the problem -- as many other have expressed in this thread -- is that many female writers don't feel comfortable writing female characters. They feel comfortable writing male characters. Because just like male writers, they (we) have grown up being taught to identify with the male viewpoint.

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I stated I was able to write men more easily, but didn't state why. I didn't consider it relevant. Since it's been brought up, I'll say this has nothing to do with why women are harder for me.

Women are harder for me because I have to work harder to disassociate myself from the character so she can develop organically. I spend a lot of time stepping back and asking if this was something SHE would do or think, or something I'M imposing on her. I don't have that issue with male characters. They come to me as strangers who I can accept without wondering how much of me I'm pouring into them.

I don't relate to men more, I relate to them less. They are odd beasts I have to pick apart and examine, then put back together without instructions. They pique my interest and satisfy my curiosity in a way the familiar female doesn't.

To build her, I need to smash her to bits, then glue her together in a way that doesn't look anything like me. She's not a mystery or adventure. She's where I live.

@VoireyLinger: sorry if it seemed like I was speculating on your reasons or judging them. I have only my own personal experience to draw from, and I realize that's flawed and everyone has their own (valid) reasons for what they prefer.

phantasy said:

I totally hear you. So I'm entreating you and all the other women on this board to try writing cool MC females. Honestly, sometimes it's as easy as switching the 'he' to 'she'. And if you don't think it works for that particular character, ask yourself why. Is it really so impossible to believe or is this just stemming from your preconceived notions of how a woman should act.

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More, preconceived notions of society. You can go against the grain, but it's an uphill battle and a real challenge that may well fail and just not be accepted. So if a role suits a guy I give it to a guy and vice versa, though I still do manage to mix things up and (hopefully) convey a positive message. That's just me though and may well be due to my limitations as a writer and as a person.

Roxxsmom said:

Though with my (lack of) that biologically driven maternal instinct all women are supposed to have (the kind that makes women go gooey when they see a baby instead of experiencing vague worry that it will pee or barf on them), a lifetime membership in the contraceptive of the month club would have been my choice.

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I'm with you and hippo - sign me up! I keep babies at a distance, as if they're some kind of bacterial spore. I don't quite get the fascination with them, and I certainly have no interest in having my own. The only reason I haven't booked myself in to have my uterus ripped out is because I'm worried it would adversely affect my sex drive

Female hormones, such a double-edged sword.... *sigh*

Ken said:

More, preconceived notions of society. You can go against the grain, but it's an uphill battle and a real challenge that may well fail and just not be accepted. So if a role suits a guy I give it to a guy and vice versa, though I still do manage to mix things up and (hopefully) convey a positive message. That's just me though and may well be due to my limitations as a writer and as a person.

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Well I'm not suggesting anyone write a 18th century coal miner as a woman (although the idea isn't impossible). But look at most our superheroes: batman, superman and HP. Make them female. What needs changing? Nothing major in my mind.

ViridianChick said:

@VoireyLinger: sorry if it seemed like I was speculating on your reasons or judging them. I have only my own personal experience to draw from, and I realize that's flawed and everyone has their own (valid) reasons for what they prefer.

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Not at all. I realize people all have different reasons for connecting or not connecting with characters. I was just presenting a different outlook on why it happens.

phantasy said:

Well I'm not suggesting anyone write a 18th century coal miner as a woman (although the idea isn't impossible). But look at most our superheroes: batman, superman and HP. Make them female. What needs changing? Nothing major in my mind.

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With superheroes, sure. I'd be interested in reading a few myself. Cool and accurate portrayals of any sort are to my liking.

Kallithrix said:

uterus ripped out

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[crosses legs]

Kallithrix said:

adversely affect my sex drive

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[crosses legs harder]

For some reason, this thread made me think of these quotes by Ursula K. LeGuin (on Being a Man).

I read the responses and I, too, think it's interesting how some of the women here have mentioned some difficulty writing female characters. I truly do understand the distaste for female characters in a token role--eye candy, or supporting characters, or (*shudders*) damsels in distress. And yet even women writers have their characters fall into those roles. Social inertia I guess.

I don't allow my female characters to take a secondary role; they're as important and provide as much to the group as the male characters. I have a number of scenes where a female character is alone and has to get out of the dire straits I stuck her in. No saviors coming her way, it's her wits, abilities and intestinal fortitude at play.

Not to say that having damsels in distress (or dudes in distress) doesn't happen, but that shouldn't be the character's only role. I guess that's where the critic comments about one dimensional characters comes from.