The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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James D. Macdonald

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Ed Williams said:
...an Oprah thread has been started on the PA boards, you can find it right here:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11947.htm

Why doesn't PA promise all their authors checks for $10,000 apiece, and, as an added bonus, promise that all of them will be handwritten checks mailed straight from Bill Gates! Wouldn't that be special? The thing is, there's as much chance of that happening as there is of PA appearing on Oprah.

Okay, I went and read the thread. Someone found that news brief from two years ago. Same page as they were talking about Jamie Farr (and we know how long ago that was), and the founding of PublishIcelandica and PublishBritannica. It's old news being reported as current; just a faded rumor.
 

mdin

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James D. Macdonald said:
Someone stop me if I'm wrong, but didn't they claim to have already hired those extra editors?

Yeah, but school doesn't get out until the middle of May.
 
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robeiae

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James D. Macdonald said:
Okay, I went and read the thread. Someone found that news brief from two years ago. Same page as they were talking about Jamie Farr (and we know how long ago that was), and the founding of PublishIcelandica and PublishBritannica. It's old news being reported as current; just a faded rumor.

Yah, actually I'm a little annoyed at myself that I didn't catch that sooner...the tipoff should have been that donations from sales in the next thirty days covered Jan. 21 to Feb. 21.

Rob
 

mdin

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Back at the post talking about about the ABC story here, a minor mystery has been solved. Mr. Harrison is under the impression the good folks here are shills for Lulu. If I'm not mistaken, he's the same person who made that cryptic comment about this website being a front for a vanity publisher.
 

AnneMarble

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Ed Williams[b said:
Translation:[/b] We're losing money, and we pay our editors maybe fifty cents an hour above the minimum wage. If we can successfully cut that cost even further, Larry can pay for a much needed hair transplant.

Look at the bright side. Hair transplants are verrrry painful.
Larry after hair transplant ---> :cry:
 

AnneMarble

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XThe NavigatorX said:
Back at the post talking about about the ABC story here, a minor mystery has been solved. Mr. Harrison is under the impression the good folks here are shills for Lulu. If I'm not mistaken, he's the same person who made that cryptic comment about this website being a front for a vanity publisher.
Now he's just being silly. :) People here are more likely to suggest a regular publisher, mentioning Lulu.com only in certain circumstances. Heck, I and others have often mentioned sending books to Harlequin or Baen. How come he hasn't accused us of being shills for Harlequin or Baen? ;)
 

robeiae

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AnneMarble said:
Now he's just being silly. :) People here are more likely to suggest a regular publisher, mentioning Lulu.com only in certain circumstances. Heck, I and others have often mentioned sending books to Harlequin or Baen. How come he hasn't accused us of being shills for Harlequin or Baen? ;)
Perhaps it's because Lulu is usually brought up as a simple alternative to PA...with Lulu, you get full control of the entire process. If you have your own artwork for the cover, publishing (printing?) through them costs nothing and you have your book ready to be ordered through online channels, just like PA, though you don't get the dollar advance!

Rob
 

JennaGlatzer

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From that PA thread:

Jean Marie, if the Superfriends succeed in what they're trying to do, new possibilities will be all that you have left. They don't want your (PA)book on the shelf at Borders, or anywhere else, for that matter.

Grrrr. Bull! Why do you think I'm over here working so damn hard? Because I DO want all authors to have a chance to have books on bookshelves. It will not happen with PA's policies, with rare exceptions.

For goodness sake, quit buying into PA's hype about how we don't want new authors to succeed. If that were the case, we'd love PA and try to convince everyone to go with them... less competition in bookstores for us "elitists" that way.
 

James D. Macdonald

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They don't want your (PA)book on the shelf at Borders, or anywhere else, for that matter.

I didn't put a ridiculous price on your book. PA did.
I didn't give your book a short discount. PA did.
I didn't put a no-return policy on your book. PA did.

I'm not the one who's trying to keep your books off the shelves of normal bookstores. That's PA's doing all the way down the line.
 

Lisa Maliga

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"Author Support" contacted me!

Hello folks,
In my quest to get my book's rights returned to me, I sent them a letter via certified mail on April 7th. [It was received 4/11/05 by Jessica Lewis] I wrote:

<<Again, I strongly demand the FULL return of my book’s rights and removal from your site and all online bookstores. Simply sign the statement below:

Publish America hereby returns all rights it has purchased for NORTH OF SUNSET to the rightful owner, Lisa Maliga. This will be returned to me by May 7, 2005.
If my book is not released by May 7, 2005, I will make it available free of charge on my own web site. I will also post many articles, along with notices on Amazon, Barnes & Noble and all other online bookstores, that a person can obtain my book for free on my own web site.>>
Today I received this reply:
As we made clear when you signed our contract, we would like you to please use [email protected] as your means of contacting us. This way we can respond to your issues much more quickly and efficiently.

As for your request, in the spirit of the conditions described in the amendment that you received, we hereby grant you permission to make your book available free of charge as you have requested.

Thank you,
Author Support Team
[email protected]
And I sent them this:
I have not signed an amendment, nor did I sign the agreement that was sent to me back in March.

The only thing I will sign is a full release of my book's rights back to me, the rightful owner.

My book will be available on my site, and through thousands of online links. So your unsavory company will not profit one iota from my book.
Does anyone have any comments/opinions about this matter?
Thanks!
 
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Lisa Maliga

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Renee said:
I thought Lisa meant her pdf file of her book?
Hi Renee,
Yes, the PDF file. I only have 3 copies of my book left [bought 10 last year] and if anyone's interested, just send me an e-mail!
Well, gotta get to work on my site!:Coffee: [jasmine tea for me, not coffee tho'!]
 

Gratian Gasparri

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gena140 said:
Why else would they be submitting to PA in the first place??

They don't know better. This happened to several of my friends who are better writers than I am. In fact, I would be more than happy to recommend their work to my publisher. Unfortunately, their work is tied up with PA for the next seven years. Which is why I, despite not being as good a writer, have sold more copies of my books than PA's top author.

I'm crowing because I know my book is good and agents have approached ME but I wanted MY BOOK MY WAY...not some cookie cutter of what's already out there.

Sadly, this is one of those big myths promoted by PA. Editors don't take the cookie cutter approach to manuscripts, rather they tailor it so that you are presentable to an audience. In other words, they make it the best darn book possible.

But I chose PA because they paid the money I didn't want to pay upfront.

Among the published authors on this board, I'm the low person on the totem pole. I just signed a contract with a four figure advance (six if you count the two figures after the decimal point). Has PA paid you a sufficient advance to cover the postage necessary to send them a signed copy of the contract?

In short, if your book is as good as you claim, then you should be giving it the chance it deserves. This can only come from a commercial publisher.
 

MartyKay

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JennaGlatzer said:
From that PA thread:



Grrrr. Bull! Why do you think I'm over here working so damn hard? Because I DO want all authors to have a chance to have books on bookshelves. It will not happen with PA's policies, with rare exceptions.

For goodness sake, quit buying into PA's hype about how we don't want new authors to succeed. If that were the case, we'd love PA and try to convince everyone to go with them... less competition in bookstores for us "elitists" that way.

Awww.. I was going to quote that comment! Superfriends??

They will point you in the Direction of LULU.COM as a "much better" way to get your book published. Go to the site, and look up "services". This is where they show you where to get your editing and artwork done, and the fees that will be charged. You can also go to the price list for printing, and get a really good deal on bulk quantities. For another fee, you can get somebody to help with marketing. Do the math.

Do the search. Search the thread for every instance of lulu.com. I'm sure all to be found is a comparison of what lulu offers and what PA offers. And that lulu is upfront and honest about what it is and does. And, since PA doesn't do the marketing, of course for a fee you can 'get somebody to help' -- only, PA doesn't even OFFER that service, does it?
 

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I was watching filmfakers* for the first time recently, and the planted 'fellow actor' was instructed to behave in the most over-the-top, diva'ish way he could think of and the 'director' was instructed to play along. After a while, one of the patsy's started to pick up on the attitude. When it was revealed that it had all been a hoax, she said something along the lines of 'I learnt so much about film-making.'

What has this to do with PA, you might ask? Well, I wonder how much the PA authors are 'learning about publishing,' and how much of a struggle it will be for them to unlearn it.

* A reality TV show where they convince three (unaware) neophyte actors to do the strangest/most unreasonable things by pretending they're making a film
 

SeanDSchaffer

It'll be interesting to see...

How old Mr. Harrison responds to what I said to him concerning his attitude over there on the PA boards.

Like many of you know, I've been absent from their boards for a couple of months now. But I simply could not stand by and let this individual treat his fellow writers like junk because they have a differing opinion.

(Oh, and BTW, I took the liberty of clarifying to him the difference between a self-pubbing company, and a Vanity company. I'm interested in seeing his response to that, as well.);)

I also gave Mr. Harrison an open invitation to come over here and give us his opinion of PA. I hope he's willing to do it, because he seems to have so much to say about those who don't like PA, and over there he's very vocal about it. I honestly would like to see him come over here and discuss his opinions with us.

Although I did not give him the URL for AbsoluteWrite, I'm pretty sure he knows where to find us. He says he's lurked here before.

(Mr. Harrison, if you're reading this, understand I'm not taunting you: I truly want to see you gather up the courage to come over here and tell us your opinions. Honest discussion is a good thing. Just know that nobody likes it when you use insults or talk down to them or their dog; it's just not good Netiquette to do those things. You won't be banned from this board unless you start treating people like dirt and overall breaking the rules -- if you do those things, the Moderators will not like you very much. Of course, you've always been somewhat of a nice guy; I'm sure you'll be able to keep your cool here. But we definitely welcome all writers here, Mr. Harrison, and all differing opinions will at least be discussed, if not calmly.)

Anyway, I thought you'd all like to know about that. I'll be lurking.:D
 

Jeff

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What would be genuinely useful would be posting as many letters from the Author Insult Team and Infocenter as you can. Perhaps sorted by theme?

And don't forget links to the various articles and exposes recently produced about PA.

Another suggestion would be to reproduce the letters from writing groups/associations who have turned down the authors who have been printed by PA -- to drive home the point that PA is not a respected or valid publishing credit outside of the authors mind (anyone here have a copy of such a letter to share?).

Just brainstorming.
 

Jeff

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ah, the classic "my words are gold and no one has the right to tell me otherwise!"...

Sheryl, the one thing that runs through my mind when I read just about every PA author writing on their boards or wherever is the simple fact that they truly seem to know little about how publishing works at all. No doubt that they think they do (and they will offer some of the most off-the-wall opinions about it), but since most of them are trying to re-invent the wheel the fact remains that few of them have a grasp on the reality of publishing or the concept of producing/marketing their work to a geographically broad and diverse audience. They all think that they can somehow buck or massage the system and make a great success of themselves despite the immeasurable roadblocks they place in their own way. The ironic thing to me is that their ultimate goal is almost always to join and be a respected member of the very system that they are trying to make an end run around.

And to me, that kind of mindset smacks of one specific thing: a lack of confidence in your own best work being able to compete with the best work of your fellow authors.

Perhaps, on reflection, when they say they don't want to wait for an actual reply from a traditional house, or when they say that they do not want to wait for the (inevitible?) rejection and thus they decide that they will go the PA/self published route, it all comes down simply to fear. Fear that you are not good enough. Fear that the rejections will tear down the carefully constructed image of yourself as an author. Fear that no one, ever, will recognize you as a writer or author.

Perhaps what they do not appreciate is that ALL OF US go through that fear. The difference is that those who are strong, confident and tenacious enough end up with a chance to being published with a traditional publisher, having their books in bookstores available for purchase from coast to coast, earning the respect of thousands (millions?) of readers worldwide and spending time writing their next (and better) book. Those who give up usually end up with a slapdash job of a book which large chain bookstores will not stock, for which they will have to do all the marketing themselves and most likely will end up selling them out of the trunk of their car. Those who go with PA can add to this that their work will be overpriced to the market, not edited in any meaningful manner and sporting a recycled artwork cover (if not the almost exact same cover of a previous PA book).

Like I said before, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it nonetheless makes me sad to watch.

It is one of the reasons I don't often go to read the PA boards (although I do read the links provided here for context) because it is simply the same discouraging tales recycled over and over again as the old authors disappear or are banned, the new crop rolls in all dewy-fresh and excited and and the months just keep rolling by.

Okay, thats all.

Postscript: I realize that there are certain specific instances when self-publishing makes sense and do not wish to include such instances in my comments above. Thanks.

CLASSIFIED AD: Slightly used soapbox for sale, cheap. Please see Jeff for more info =========> :Soapbox:
 

Jeff

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Okay, here's a question:
If one, or even ten, authors manage to actually make the PA model work for them, whether it be by having top lawyers watchdog for them, or niche-marketing to stores that prefer PA to self-publishing, then...

...is it still morally acceptable to fight to shut down PA on behalf of all the other victimized authors, who were too naive to catch contract ambiguities, believed half-truths, or simply fell for a really slick, practiced scam? Knowing that a successful fight will negatively impact the ten authors who have actually managed to tame the beast and do all right out of the bargain?

I think perhaps a more pertinent question would be is it morally right to support a publisher that one acknowledges has not played on the up and up with its authors in the past and where evidence exists that it continues to do so (see: PA's top-selling author complaining that he sold more books than he was paid for) just because one thinks one can take advantage of the model to pursue a dream to be sucessfully published? Does one decide to do business with them, give them money (by ordering ones own books to sell) and by doing so allow them to continue to perpetuate the problems that one has acknowledged are out there with PA?

Indeed, I think that is a question moral people need to ask themselves.

For what that is worth.
 
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