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Musa Publishing

priceless1

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priceless1, I have to disagree. As a writer who is also an editor, I wouldn't want to publish with a press that didn't pay editors fairly (not suggesting that this is the case with Musa; just pointing out why I think LillyPu's question is a reasonable one).
IceCream, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I wouldn't want to publish with a press who didn't fairly pay their editors, either. The jury is still out on whether a publisher who pays their authors via royalties are able to attract the best editors or not, so the best defense for any author is to read a number of that publisher's books to get a feel for the quality of their editorial staff.

So, using that logic, that's why I said it didn't matter how a publisher pays their editors - unless she was planning on applying for an editorial position. If that's the case, then it seems more logical to email the publisher directly than bring it up here.
 

LillyPu

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I was considering sending a resume, not submitting. Didn't know if my question should go in this forum thread, but I thought someone would know what and how their editors are paid.

Katie, none are genres I write in, or am used to editing, but editing is editing, and if at least you spend time learning the basics of the genre, you should be able to do a good job with plot, character, consistency, grammar, syntax blah blah blah...

But like I said in my other post (which I had to edit for an error!) I'd need to know the dough. :)
 

LillyPu

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unless she was planning on applying for an editorial position. If that's the case, then it seems more logical to email the publisher directly than bring it up here.
Thanks I'll do that. :) It's just usually I see payrates posted in the job announcements. Thought someone here would know, or would have experience editing for Musa (not by Musa).
 

mscelina

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Because of my own association with AW and Musa, I determined well before we opened that Musa (the entity, represented by me) would not post our employment positions, internships, or other types of announcements along those lines here. I will not exploit my...um, what should I call it...familiarity with AW and its members and turn into the great spam monster. Our websites and blogs have all the information anyone might need in order to find the answers to their questions. Any other questions someone might have can be emailed to Musa for a response. PLEASE don't PM me though. I really really really hate getting PMs about queries or editing questions in my AW inbox.

Really.
 

LaneHeymont

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PLEASE don't PM me though. I really really really hate getting PMs about queries or editing questions in my AW inbox.

Really.

I'm kinda surprised people do that, though I suppose I shouldn't be!
 

Catadmin

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I'd actually consider sending one as well, but the part that I'm not certain about is having to edit for each imprint. I'm not a big fan of YA, for example, and I don't know much about romance, either. Do most publishers do this, or is this more of a copy editing thing? While I think I could do a great job in certain areas, I'd not be confident in my skills at all in other genres.

That's what internships are for, to teach you the things you don't know.

If you're not a well-rounded, experienced editor, chances are you won't get any editorial position you apply for (regardless of publisher). The way to get around that is to do an internship and get that experience. That's what I've been told by several people, at least.

And I do know that Musa is looking for editorial interns.
 

LillyPu

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My email inquiry to Musa autoresponded with 'out-of-office'. :D
And no, I'm not the type to PM--no worries there.

Employment aside (for surely it is now), just like I don't edit for royalties, I would not submit to a publisher who paid their editors in royalties, and this is something I would want to know ahead of time--maybe it's not important to others, it is to me. I don't want editors or cover artists sharing my byline, nor do I want an editor sharing my royalties for the life of my book. Instead, I will effusively thank my editor in my acknowledgements page, and trust they've been paid well by their employer, my publisher, and off we go our separate ways.

Just as I'd want to know a publisher's experience, I'd want to know their editors' experience. Telling me 'how' their editors are paid gives me an indication of experience. In-house and salaried is my gold standard. With many start-ups using questionable freelancers, or even some of their own authors as editors, I think it's a concern submitters should have. I don't know what the case is with Musa, the publisher has yet to answer. It's something for those who plan to submit manuscripts to Musa to consider, if it's a concern. If not, then no skin off. Best of luck.
 

Stacia Kane

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My email inquiry to Musa autoresponded with 'out-of-office'. :D
And no, I'm not the type to PM--no worries there.

Employment aside (for surely it is now), just like I don't edit for royalties, I would not submit to a publisher who paid their editors in royalties, and this is something I would want to know ahead of time--maybe it's not important to others, it is to me. I don't want editors or cover artists sharing my byline, nor do I want an editor sharing my royalties for the life of my book. Instead, I will effusively thank my editor in my acknowledgements page, and trust they've been paid well by their employer, my publisher, and off we go our separate ways.

Lilypu, editors being paid by royalties is common in epublishing. The payment doesn't come out of the author's share--you're not "sharing" your royalties with the editor, their payment comes from the publisher's money. Not yours. In that it's no different than if the house wrote the editor a check for a flat fee; that wouldn't come out of your royalties or advance, so neither would the editor's royalties. (And I know plenty of editors who've made far, far more money by being paid a royalty than they would have if they'd accepted a one-time payment, just as an aside. Accepting that payment structure is in no way a comment on an editor's professionalism or quality, either.)

And having an editor paid by royalties does NOT mean they share your byline. It doesn't. At all. The editors' or cover artists' names appearing on Amazon etc. are either because of that/those particular houses's weird policies or because they are small and amateurish and do not know how to correctly enter data on Amazon etc.

MANY of the larger epublishers have royalty-paid editors, and none of those editors' names appear on the book's listings.

You're certainly entitled to your own criteria for choosing a publisher and it's not my intention at all to tell you that you're wrong for not wanting to write for a house that pays editors through a percentage of sales rather than an upfront payment or a salary, but I hate to see misinformation like that taken as truth. Editors' names do not belong on Amazon listings (unless of course it's an "Edited by" type of short story collection or a similar situation) and if they do appear it says more about the publisher's lack of knowledge than about how the editors are paid.


Just as I'd want to know a publisher's experience, I'd want to know their editors' experience. Telling me 'how' their editors are paid gives me an indication of experience. In-house and salaried is my gold standard. With many start-ups using questionable freelancers, or even some of their own authors as editors, I think it's a concern submitters should have. I don't know what the case is with Musa, the publisher has yet to answer. It's something for those who plan to submit manuscripts to Musa to consider, if it's a concern. If not, then no skin off. Best of luck.

I think quality of editing is indeed hugely important. But again, being paid by royalties does not mean the editor isn't a good, qualified professional. At all.
 

Deleted member 42

Employment aside (for surely it is now), just like I don't edit for royalties, I would not submit to a publisher who paid their editors in royalties, and this is something I would want to know ahead of time--maybe it's not important to others, it is to me. I don't want editors or cover artists sharing my byline, nor do I want an editor sharing my royalties for the life of my book..

The royalties paid to an editor aren't "yours"; they come out of the publisher's income.

Editors have been paid with royalties or a combination of royalties plus advance for many years; it's standard not only in epublishing, but in text book publishing.

I've made over 20K a year in editorial royalties from a single publisher on two titles. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

And, respectfully, "editing is not editing," it is skilled craft and art, and requires training and expertise. You don't just walk in the door and put on a fancy hat.

An editor needs to be far more familiar with the ins-and-outs of publishing than the expertise your recent post history suggests—including an understanding about the differences between editing, copy editing and proofing.
 

LillyPu

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The payment doesn't come out of the author's share--you're not "sharing" your royalties with the editor, their payment comes from the publisher's money. Not yours. In that it's no different than if the house wrote the editor a check for a flat fee; that wouldn't come out of your royalties or advance, so neither would the editor's royalties.
You know, I wasn't sure about that. With some publishers you never know where the 'net' on royalties begin or where they end. I guess that's another topic. I really don't know. So if a publisher takes 50% royalties on net, then the editors and cover artists are included in the *publisher's* 50% after net. I appreciate your information. I'm ignorant to publishing and don't mean to 'learn' in Musa's thread, but the name had been popping up lately and I clicked on it, and... etc. I definitely want my misconceptions cleared. So thanks. :)
 

LillyPu

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The royalties paid to an editor aren't "yours"; they come out of the publisher's income.

Editors have been paid with royalties or a combination of royalties plus advance for many years; it's standard not only in epublishing, but in text book publishing.

I've made over 20K a year in editorial royalties from a single publisher on two titles. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

And, respectfully, "editing is not editing," it is skilled craft and art, and requires training and expertise. You don't just walk in the door and put on a fancy hat.

An editor needs to be far more familiar with the ins-and-outs of publishing than the expertise your recent post history suggests—including an understanding about the differences between editing, copy editing and proofing.
Editing is editing in that it is a skilled craft and art in whatever genre it's performed. I didn't mean otherwise, in case you assumed. :) I don't have any fancy hats, wish I did, I'd be wearing one now!

I take it it's not kosher to ask publishers how editors are paid on the boards.

Sorry. Every day's a learning experience.
 

Deleted member 42

You know, I wasn't sure about that. With some publishers you never know where the 'net' on royalties begin or where they end.

Ok. Stop right there.

You're misusing terms, still.

Royalties are paid by entities who license content. Publishers pay content providers—which can included editors, authors, indexers, (rarely, and for very specialized works) artists, and illustrators or their agents—royalties.

Publishers in the context you're referring to—book publishers—pay royalties, they don't receive them.

I'm ignorant to publishing and don't mean to 'learn' in Musa's thread, but the name had been popping up lately and I clicked on it, and... etc. I definitely want my misconceptions cleared. So thanks. :)

It's ok to be ignorant about publishing, but you need to stop making assertions when you know you're ignorant.

Read this on royalties. It's from Old Hack's excellent How Publishing Really Works, and it's a super place to start reading.

And there's a useful glossary from Cathy Clamp here.
 
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LillyPu

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I liked your youtube. It was funny. Point taken. I did start off reading Old Hack's thread. Maybe it's where I learned to ask the questions I did.
 

mscelina

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My email inquiry to Musa autoresponded with 'out-of-office'. :D

Because I am out of the office. N'est ce pas?

Employment aside (for surely it is now), just like I don't edit for royalties, I would not submit to a publisher who paid their editors in royalties, and this is something I would want to know ahead of time--maybe it's not important to others, it is to me. I don't want editors or cover artists sharing my byline, nor do I want an editor sharing my royalties for the life of my book. Instead, I will effusively thank my editor in my acknowledgements page, and trust they've been paid well by their employer, my publisher, and off we go our separate ways.

Um--what the staff who works on someone's book gets paid is unequivocably none of a writer's business. Whose names go on the copyright page--also, none of a writer's business. At Musa, the editor, cover artist, and interior book designers are all credited on the copyright page.

If you don't submit to houses that pay their editors in royalties, then that pretty much excludes ALL of e-publishing and a huge number of small presses. I'd recommend getting an agent and trying for New York then, but be aware--agents take a percentage of the AUTHOR'S royalties. In e-publishing, the staff gets percentages of the HOUSE'S royalties.

Just as I'd want to know a publisher's experience, I'd want to know their editors' experience. Telling me 'how' their editors are paid gives me an indication of experience. In-house and salaried is my gold standard. With many start-ups using questionable freelancers, or even some of their own authors as editors, I think it's a concern submitters should have. I don't know what the case is with Musa, the publisher has yet to answer. It's something for those who plan to submit manuscripts to Musa to consider, if it's a concern. If not, then no skin off. Best of luck.

Here again, the editor's experience or how they are paid is not the author's business. I don't allow writers to vet the editorial staff and pick their own editor. I pair the writer with an editor I feel would work best for them in regards to personality, writing style, and the degree of technique work that must be done on the manuscript. As the editorial director, that's my job.

And let me be perfectly frank with you: I've edited in epublishing for most of a decade. I have NEVER been salaried. I have ALWAYS been paid with royalties. I paid my mortgage payment, without fail, with those monthly royalty checks for years.

Then, one more time, the publisher has yet to answer because she's on the medical leave of absence you noted earlier in the thread.


You know, I wasn't sure about that. With some publishers you never know where the 'net' on royalties begin or where they end. I guess that's another topic. I really don't know. So if a publisher takes 50% royalties on net, then the editors and cover artists are included in the *publisher's* 50% after net. I appreciate your information. I'm ignorant to publishing and don't mean to 'learn' in Musa's thread, but the name had been popping up lately and I clicked on it, and... etc. I definitely want my misconceptions cleared. So thanks. :)

There is a breakdown of royalties on the Musa blog: http://musapublishing.blogspot.com/p/musa-contract.html

That will give you any information you require.

Editing is editing in that it is a skilled craft and art in whatever genre it's performed. I didn't mean otherwise, in case you assumed. :) I don't have any fancy hats, wish I did, I'd be wearing one now!

I take it it's not kosher to ask publishers how editors are paid on the boards.

Sorry. Every day's a learning experience.

You seem to have a great deal of confusion about how publishing really works. (Thanks Medi and Stacia for steering her in the right direction) My best advice is to take the time to peruse the forums here and find the answers that you need. It is really, really easy to put your foot wrong in publishing. Until you have a strong foundation of knowledge, it's best to sit and listen instead of stand and declare.

Musa's pay scale for editors is, I believe, standard within--and in some cases better than--digital publishing. We pay royalties to our editors on SALES, not net. In addition, our editors are paid a release bonus--no, it's not much but it's something and our really fast/busy editors end up with a nice chunk of change if they're turning out multiple titles per month. The release bonuses are paid a couple of months before any third party site royalties come in, so it's a way to reward the editor in advance for a job well done.

Editorial applicants are required to edit a 500 word excerpt--the same excerpt for everyone. The only folks who are hired to edit at Musa are the ones who've scored a 90% or better score. In copy/line editing, applicants are given a completely different test by the interior book designer, Coreen Montagna, who also established the Musa house style. In order to perform well on either test, the applicant must have a strong knowledge of and understanding of the latest edition of the Chicago Manual of Style.
 

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agents take a percentage of the AUTHOR'S royalties. In e-publishing, the staff gets percentages of the HOUSE'S royalties.

The publishing house doesn't get paid royalties: it has a turnover, which can run into profit or loss depending on how many copies of each book are sold. So it can't pay its staff a percentage of its royalties. Surely?

In trade print publishing, the staff on the production side are usually paid salaries. Except for those who freelance, who usually get paid fixed fees regardless of how well the books they work on perform.

And while agents earn a percentage of their author-clients' royalties they almost always earn their authors more than they cost their authors in commission. Advances for agented writers are usually higher, contracts are better, and so on and so forth. Agents are well worth having, on the whole.
 

LillyPu

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Ok. Stop right there.

You're misusing terms, still.

Royalties are paid by entities who license content. Publishers pay content providers—which can included editors, authors, indexers, (rarely, and for very specialized works) artists, and illustrators or their agents—royalties.

Publishers in the context you're referring to—book publishers—pay royalties, they don't receive them.



It's ok to be ignorant about publishing, but you need to stop making assertions when you know you're ignorant.

Read this on royalties. It's from Old Hack's excellent How Publishing Really Works, and it's a super place to start reading.

And there's a useful glossary from Cathy Clamp here.
Point me to my assertions, please. And you'll point others to theirs, too. I'm lost now.
 

Deleted member 42

Point me to my assertions, please. And you'll point others to theirs, too. I'm lost now.

You keep misusing basic terms like royalties, and byline, and confusing who gets royalties on what, and then making assertions about what a business practice means in terms of quality of product.

There's the confusion over royalties, who receives and who pays. There's the confusion about editing—in your post where you discuss applying for work as an editor, you've managed to conflate editing, copyediting and proofing. These are separate jobs and skill-sets.

You refer to in-house and salaried as your "gold standard," but seem unaware that while acquiring editors are in-house, copyeditors at big six publishers, like proofers and indexers, are frequently paid as 1099s. More often than not, the editors that work in-house began as freelancers, promoted from an intern job, sometimes. Given the price of office space, and benefits, and the use of the 'net, it doesn't really matter quite as much that copyeditors are in-house. Some are, some aren't.

For one of my books, my publisher is in San Francisco, and my editor is in the Midwest, and I've got one co-writer in Washington and another in California. For another book, the publisher is in Oxford and the editor is in France. The editor is a freelance editor who works mostly for a single publisher.

Moreover, a lot of authors had previous careers as editors, and vice-versa; Jo Sherman and Laura Gilman are two that pop to mind.

The hands-down absolutely best way to check out a publisher, their staff, or agents, is to look at their published books.
 

LillyPu

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You keep misusing basic terms like royalties, and byline, and confusing who gets royalties on what, and then making assertions about what a business practice means in terms of quality of product.

There's the confusion over royalties, who receives and who pays. There's the confusion about editing—in your post where you discuss applying for work as an editor, you've managed to conflate editing, copyediting and proofing. These are separate jobs and skill-sets.

You refer to in-house and salaried as your "gold standard," but seem unaware that while acquiring editors are in-house, copyeditors at big six publishers, like proofers and indexers, are frequently paid as 1099s. More often than not, the editors that work in-house began as freelancers, promoted from an intern job, sometimes. Given the price of office space, and benefits, and the use of the 'net, it doesn't really matter quite as much that copyeditors are in-house. Some are, some aren't.

For one of my books, my publisher is in San Francisco, and my editor is in the Midwest, and I've got one co-writer in Washington and another in California. For another book, the publisher is in Oxford and the editor is in France. The editor is a freelance editor who works mostly for a single publisher.

Moreover, a lot of authors had previous careers as editors, and vice-versa; Jo Sherman and Laura Gilman are two that pop to mind.

The hands-down absolutely best way to check out a publisher, their staff, or agents, is to look at their published books.
Okay, that's me. Now maybe Musa can get to answering the questions asked in the thread Stacia Kane "quoted", the concerns that make this an unbiased thread. :)
 

WordCount

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I am yet to see why it matters what the payment of the editor is.

As long as the publisher is selling my story, especially as well as I hear Musa does, I'm fine.
 

Terie

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Okay, that's me. Now maybe Musa can get to answering the questions asked in the thread Stacia Kane "quoted", the concerns that make this an unbiased thread. :)

Erm. LillyPu, are you actually READING this thread? The principal of Musa had back surgery last week and is currently 'off work'. How many more times do she and others need to say this before you stop demanding answers from her until she's back to work?