R&R question - am I a spoiled brat?

Moonchild

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So, I just got my first R&R ever and I was initially super excited... Then, I finished reading the request and realized the publisher's comments were super generic and vague. I should actually say their "comment," as in one single comment. The whole note almost read like a form rejection (the "I didn't connect with it" type).

This being my first experience with an R&R, I was just plain confused. So I wrote back a friendly, polite note thanking them and saying that I believe (and I do) there's always room for improvement and I couldn't wait to get back into revision mode, but, would they mind being a little more specific as to when they "stopped connecting," so I would know what to focus on. I got a note back that was equally vague (in the vein of, "I just started not connecting on Chapter X"). I haven't replied yet, mostly because I'm still not sure how to reply. Or how to fix what these guys would like me to fix, since they've, you know, NOT really told me what it is....:Shrug:

Anyway, my question is... Is this the way R&Rs usually happen? For some reason, I had it in my head that I'd get some more specific comments... Am I a spoiled brat to even think that's a possibility?

Thoughts/insights/kicks-in-the-butt appreciated!

Thanks!:hi:
 

EvolvingK

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The one time I got an R&R, it was pretty specific. After the R&R, I got a form rejection within 24 hours, though, so who knows if that experience was typical.

Perhaps time to find a good beta reader and see if they can help you figure out why the editor "stopped connecting?"
 

Osulagh

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I finished reading the request and realized the publisher's comments were super generic and vague. I should actually say their "comment," as in one single comment. The whole note almost read like a form rejection (the "I didn't connect with it" type).

This does read like you're frustrated with either what they said or just them and might not be seeing it from their point of view.

But then, if they haven't given you any suggestions or detailed comments on why they feel that way, it doesn't seem like they care. Their comments and suggestions for revision should be geared to help them sell the book--if they're not trying to help you, they might not care one bit.
Ask them directly for what they think you should be doing, and why. "Not connecting" is entirely subjective, but if they can't see readers connecting whatsoever that can be a different story.


To add: Most the time, I don't connect with characters. I just... don't. It's not exactly a problem, as I'm still enjoying the book, I'm not invested with the characters. It happens.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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The only R&R I've had so far was very specific - it complained that I often wandered out of first person POV and wanted me to go back over the entire story to make sure I was staying in the right POV. I did so and got the contract.

This sounds too vague to even begin to be useful. "Just stopped connecting" isn't anything to go on. If they're not giving you more specific instructions on what they're finding a problem with I'd move onto another publisher.

It's just too vague. And if they can't clarify then you have to wonder how good they are on editing if they can't do this much.

JMO, YMMV.
 

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I've only ever gotten one R&R, and it was a request to add more sex scenes. So, quite a bit more specific than yours.

I don't know... it was definitely phrased as an R&R, not just a rejection with feedback?

I guess if you're really interested in this publisher, you try to find a few betas who ALSO failed to connect with the character and pry the details out of them.

Otherwise, I have no idea where you go from here. Frustrating!
 

Moonchild

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Thanks to everyone who's chimed in! :Hug2: It's so helpful to get an idea of what other folks have gone through!

Perhaps time to find a good beta reader and see if they can help you figure out why the editor "stopped connecting?"

This particular MS has been beta-ed to death, and all the betas were super specific with their comments. I'll go through their notes again, but off the top of my head, I can't remember anyone mentioning anything with regard to feeling disconnected from characters and/or story and/or motivation.

This does read like you're frustrated with either what they said or just them and might not be seeing it from their point of view.

Yup. I'm a little frustrated. :) But not because I can't see it from their point of view--I mean, that might frustrate me eventually, regardless... But first I need to suss out what that point of view actually is! ;)

But then, if they haven't given you any suggestions or detailed comments on why they feel that way, it doesn't seem like they care. Their comments and suggestions for revision should be geared to help them sell the book--if they're not trying to help you, they might not care one bit.

You know, that's what I kept thinking earlier, before I checked on this thread (i.e., I hadn't read your response).

To add: Most the time, I don't connect with characters. I just... don't. It's not exactly a problem, as I'm still enjoying the book, I'm not invested with the characters. It happens.

And that's fine. To each his own and all that, right? But why bother to ask for an R&R, instead of moving on to something they do connect with?

If they're not giving you more specific instructions on what they're finding a problem with I'd move onto another publisher.

It's just too vague. And if they can't clarify then you have to wonder how good they are on editing if they can't do this much.

That's an excellent point. Believe me, that's what I've been toying with in my head. The more I think of it, the more I question if this publisher would even be a good fit after all.

I don't know... it was definitely phrased as an R&R, not just a rejection with feedback?

Yup. Definitely and very directly phrased as a "would you be willing to R&R?" And no feedback to speak of anyway. I've had more specific feedback from semi-personalized rejections! LOL!

I just wasn't sure if I was being all primmadonna-like, expecting some sort of specifics, when all R&Rs were just as vague! So thank you so much to you all for sharing your experiences.
 
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R&Rs can be incredibly specific or very vague. I had one that was vague enough that I misinterpreted what she wanted. To me, "I didn't connect to the book after this chapter," is a hard one to interpret, unless you happen to know what happens in that chapter that causes the problem.

Not all R&Rs are going to feel right for you. Send a thank you and keep things open in case some other R&R or beta comment matches what she's saying, but more specifically, and you think whatever revision you do will work for her. And then it's your choice to keep querying.
 
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Becky Black

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The two R&Rs I've had were both pretty specific, if not lengthy. And since I'd already published a couple of books with that publisher I could discuss the R&Rs a bit with my editor and get feedback on my ideas for making the changes. (They were both accepted after the changes.)

It does sound from this one that as the feedback is too vague to give you a direction to go with the changes then you might well be wasting your time if you go ahead and make changes. You could be better of submitting it elsewhere and seeing what happens.

Certainly go and take a look at the chapter they say they stopped connecting, see if you can spot why someone might feel that way. But keep in mind that such things as "connecting" with a story may be subjective and variable from one person to another. I remember one I had rejected (not R&R) from 2 publishers, both of whom had some common issues in the rejection about plot structure, but who also in one case liked the characters and in the other case didn't click with them at all. So I fixed the plot and largely left the characters alone. (It went on to sell elsewhere.) Agents and editors are going to be as variable as readers in such aspects.
 
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popgun62

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I write supernatural thrillers, and I once received a vague R&R from an agent who said the story just didn't have enough "chills and thrills." I asked her specific questions, like "what if I did this and this?" and she would say something like, "Yes, you're on the right track." So go back and look at your chapter and see if you can figure out why she didn't connect, then make some suggestions yourself and see if she agrees. You still might get rejected (I did), but it will probably make your writing stronger.

I think agents don't want to get too invested until they see what a writer can do on his/her own, like whether you can figure out how to write a great story without too much coaxing. But she must see something there, or she wouldn't have made the effort, she just would have sent a form reject. Just my opinion.
 

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My guess is that they are trying to brush you off, and you're not cooperating. Or at the very least they're only mildly interested in your submission and don't won't to spend time thinking through why & telling you.

They're pretty much a lost cause and you're wasting time chafing over the (semi) rejection. Better to look for an agent or a publisher who is more enthusiastic about your creation.
 

CrastersBabies

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I would imagine this person doesn't have massive amounts of time to go through 70k worth of writing (or however many pages you submitted) to try and pinpoint exactly where they disconnected.

BUT, I do think it's okay to ask for some clarification. When I tell someone, "I just didn't connect to this," I can offer some bits at the very least. Lack of interiority. Stilted exposition or dialogue. Not enough risks or conflict. The issue can belong to pretty much any "craft" group.

I think saying something like, "Would you be willing to offer some specifics? For example, was it character-based or plot-based?" (That might tell you if the disconnect was with a character or the story.)

I might then ask, "What have you really connected with recently that you've read? Just to get some perspective."

I honestly don't think you have anything to lose here by asking. Good luck!
 

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I had this once. The editor "just wanted something else to happen in the second half". That's as close as I got to guidance.

This was not an editor to dismiss lightly, so I chafed and fretted for three weeks and then my husband asked an innocuous "what if" question and it gave me an idea and I rewrote the second half of the book, which led to some changes in the first half, too.

Ultimately, that editor did not end up taking the project, but the new second half was much better than the original, so I kept it and a while later, it was picked up and became my debut novel.

If this is an editor you wish to pursue, all I can advise is open up your focus and snatch an idea out of all the pretty butterflies and change something. See if it gives insight into the characters. All the fuzziness with "connecting" is frustrating, but I think it means "change something".

Now sure how helpful I was here, but best of luck!
 

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The only R and R I've had was on my first ever completed novel, and it was super specific and was a whole page of things to change, and I thought it was a rejection I didn't realize it was a R and R, but looking back it was a whole page of specific things to change and ended in "we hope that you keep working on this book as it has a great start and concept." So I never revised and resubmitted because I didn't really get that that's what it was and I just trunked that book. lol

Hope you figure out an answer to your situation.