Trigger-happy Neighborhood Watch Kills Black Teenager

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missesdash

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So, George Zimmerman's father has released a statement. No way to tell how much is true, but he makes some interesting claims. Mainly that George didn't pursue Trayvon. But the police claim he did. He also objects to the media calling George "white."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ing-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1160767.story



"The tragic events of February 26 are very sad for all concerned. The Martin family, our family, and the entire community have been forever changed.
The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that lead to the tragic shooting are false and extremely misleading. Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas.

George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life. Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide. Recently, I met two black children George invited to a social event. I asked where they met George. They responded that he was their mentor. They said George visited them routinely, took them places, helped them, and taught them things and that they really loved George. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.

The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate. Out of respect for the on-going investigation, I will not discuss specifics. However, the media reports of the events are imaginary at best. At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event become public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media.
Our entire family is deeply sorry for the loss of Trayvon. We pray for the Martin family daily. We also pray that the community will grieve together and not be divided by more unwarranted hate.
 

cherita

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I cringe on a cellular level when people use the "But I have black friends, how could I possibly be racist!?" argument. It's slightly disconcerting that someone can count out a precise number of black people they know, and offer that up as proof of a lack of racial bias. Yes, because that's how it works.

Obviously, not all the facts are known in this case. And I get that it's his dad. But honestly, he should just keep quiet like his son and let those "black neighbors" and kids speak for themselves, along with the eventual facts, out of respect for the kid his son did shoot and kill, whatever the reason.
 

MeretSeger

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But how else would the father defend him? What if he really does mentor minority kids and help people out? To the father, wouldn't that be evidence, to him, that his son is not racist? There's nothing wrong with what he said.

I have been thinking that this may be more a combination of ageism and stranger-danger than race. I know people who are down on teenagers no matter what they could be defined as... but time will tell.
 

missesdash

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I cringe on a cellular level when people use the "But I have black friends, how could I possibly be racist!?" argument. It's slightly disconcerting that someone can count out a precise number of black people they know, and offer that up as proof of a lack of racial bias. Yes, because that's how it works.

Obviously, not all the facts are known in this case. And I get that it's his dad. But honestly, he should just keep quiet like his son and let those "black neighbors" and kids speak for themselves, along with the eventual facts, out of respect for the kid his son did shoot and kill, whatever the reason.

Yeah the letter probably didn't help much. I'm really interested to see what he claims happened.
 

missesdash

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So the tapes have finally been released. A lot of it disputes what the cops said were actually on the tapes. This was a cover-up and a sloppy one at that:

911 tape shows George Zimmerman lamenting that the “a--holes always get away.”
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He looked like he might be on drugs and “up to no good.”

“It’s raining. He’s just walking around, looking about,” Zimmerman told the dispatcher. “He’s just staring looking at all the houses.”

Later, he lamented: “These a**holes always get away.”
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The sounds in the background echoed the account of the witnesses who came forward to say they heard desperate cries for help from a child, a gunshot, then abrupt silence. The witnesses believe it was Trayvon -- not Zimmerman -- who was crying for help.

“This is amazing,” family attorney Natalie Jackson said. “The police have been covering up from the start. The most alarming thing was hearing a 17-year-old pleading for his life and somoene still pulling the trigger.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/16/2697604_p2/trayvon-martins-parents-criss.html#storylink=cpy
 

BunnyMaz

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So the tapes have finally been released. A lot of it disputes what the cops said were actually on the tapes. This was a cover-up and a sloppy one at that:

I was angry before, but now I'm furious. This is the straight-up, undeniable murder of a black kid being blatantly covered up by police, to the extent of even telling witnesses their testimony is wrong.

Please tell me heads are going to roll over this.
 

MeretSeger

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That poor kid. All I can picture is how scared he was, running from a stranger. He did the right thing and he still died. Damn it!
 

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That is so heartbreaking. And infuriating. And just... ugh. And when you listen to the 911 call with George Zimmerman, how he's so nonchalant like yup, this guy is up to no good, he's just walking down the street staring at the houses... and then you actually hear Zimmerman get out of his car and run after Trayvon... this is nothing less than straight up murder. That this guy hasn't even been arrested is just... there are no words. And his poor family, to have to listen to those screams and know their son was murdered for walking down the street in the rain looking at houses...

This is where minimizing the negative impact or even complacently accepting racism in the form of racial profiling takes us, as a society. So sad.
 

Kitty27

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He killed him because he was Black.

Plain and simple. If the situation was reversed,Trayvon would be in jail and charged with murder.

This is why I am so terrified for my sons. I've taught my oldest about Driving While Black and other unfortunate talks Black parents have to give to their sons.

Now if he cannot even walk down the street without some overzealous flashlight cop wannabe profiling him and taking his life with NOTHING done-I just can't.
The cops told him to STOP. He went anyway and killed him. The fact he isn't in jail echoes the Oscar Grant,Sean Bell and other situations. It used to be that cops got away with gunning down Black males. Now it's to the point anybody can do it.

Something better be done about this. This is an obvious cover up.
 

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This of course cannot be proved. But I think anyone with awareness of the the racial climate in this country understands that it's true.

Agreed. This?

He killed him because he was Black.

I think might be too limiting. Had he been Latino, or a "punk kid" with sagging jeans, an eyebrow stud and a couple of tats, it might have ended up the same. According to the accounts Zimmerman said "these assholes" not "these blacks/niggers/whatever."

On the one tape linked above, where you can hear the conversation between Zimmerman and the 911 dispatcher Zimmerman doesn't identify himself until the dispatcher asks for his name, and even then doesn't identify his "authority." (Unless it was edited out.) There was no presentation of authority/appeal to "the brotherhood." I have answered 911 calls from a number of neighborhood watch volunteers and organizers. If they don't identify their office up front, they identify themselves by name and expect you to recognize them and their perceived authority. Cops and other emergency first responders tend to do this as well. If only because it often saves time in communicating what is going on.

My concern, I think, is that jumping to the "this one racist ass murdered this poor kid." conclusion opens the door for any number of people and local systems to duck their share of the responsibility for this tragedy (Homeowners association? Neighborhood Watch organization? Was their any kind of training/law enforcement sign off by the local authorities?)
 

missesdash

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I read he'd called the police 46 times in the last 14 months, usually to report a "suspicious person." I'd be interested to see the racial break down of those "suspicious" people.
 

cherita

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I think might be too limiting. Had he been Latino (1), or a "punk kid" with sagging jeans, an eyebrow stud and a couple of tats (2), it might have ended up the same. According to the accounts Zimmerman said "these assholes" not "these blacks/niggers/whatever." (3)

1. Zimmerman himself is Latino as well, so I doubt it.

2. Zimmerman is in his 20s. I'd be surprised if he automatically associated "punk kid" with anyone of any race wearing sagging jeans, piercings and tats the way an old person would. Everybody probably dressed like that when he was growing up. That said, I know *a lot* of people who wouldn't blink at a tatted white or Asian guy wearing a hoodie and sagging because that's just the style equate that same style on a black guy with something more dangerous, something to fear. The idea of the "dangerous black male" is quite pervasive, even if people are biting their style.

3. Because of political correctness, it is entirely probable that people who hold racist beliefs would never actually say "these blacks/ni**ers/whatever". Not to mention the obvious fact that racism is so much more complicated than "I hate ni**ers". It's much more subtle than that. Today, racism comes in forms like reinforcing false negative stereotypes and racial profiling, which persists even though statistics show that there's often no real basis for it (e.g. black and latino men are 3xs more likely than white men to have their cars searched when pulled over, but white men are 4xs more likely to actually have weapons or drugs).

This minimizing of race is so aggravating because it ignores the very real fact that in most of these incidents where an unarmed kid is shot and killed by someone in a position of authority (be it real or perceived authority), that kid is usually black. Yes, there are certainly other issues to be concerned with here, but at its root this was a kid getting shot for "walking while black". Wanting to minimize that seems to ignore the question we should be asking: why is that young black men/boys seem to be the only ones accidentally shot and killed in this way?
 

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This minimizing of race is so aggravating because it ignores the very real fact that in most of these incidents where an unarmed kid is shot and killed by someone in a position of authority (be it real or perceived authority), that kid is usually black. Yes, there are certainly other issues to be concerned with here, but at its root this was a kid getting shot for "walking while black". Wanting to minimize that seems to ignore the question we should be asking: why is that young black men/boys seem to be the only ones accidentally shot and killed in this way?

The assumptions being argued for create a shaky foundation. (A latino wouldn't feel threatened by another latino? That's like suggesting white on white, or black on black crime doesn't exist.) But, the foundation may yet firm up. If the evidence doesn't allow it to though, the resulting noise and allegations, having been built on that foundation, will likely bury whatever the causes were.

That said, working with just the quoted section:

Who is "minimizing"? On the contrary, my suggestion is that there is more to this than just race. And this?

why is that young black men/boys seem to be the only ones accidentally shot and killed in this way?

"the only ones" Really? I'd bet a bit of research would say otherwise. The BlackStarProject comes to mind.

I am absolutely NOT suggesting race did not play a part in this. I'm not suggesting racial violence doesn't exist. I might be suggesting that pointing a finger and shouting "Racist" first doesn't fix anything.
 

muravyets

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In my opinion, ignoring an obvious likelihood doesn't help anything either. If we want to get to a place where things like this don't happen, how is that goal helped by not highlighting the pervasive prejudice that influences so many things in our society? How is understanding why this happened helped by not throwing a stark light on one of the most likely contributing factors in America?

Is just saying it proof that it was Zimmerman's motive? No, of course not. But it sure the fuck looks like it, and it is the thought foremost on observers' minds, and ignoring that is not going to help us, or people like Zimmerman, or people like Trayvon.

You start dealing with the elephant in the room by pointing and announcing "Elephant!"

That's my two cents.
 

Williebee

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Yet again (Second time this thread.) that elephant has already been pointed out and lit up like the Met Life blimp.

I haven't seen anybody denying it, ignoring it, trying to hide it or dismiss it. Have you? Has there been any evidence that the PD in Florida is denying it? Instead, they denied that it was the boy who cried for help, and reported that it was Zimmerman. Do we assume that all of those cops were just as racist as we assume Zimmerman is, so that this theory works? Or is it reasonable to wonder if the PD has some other reason for protecting Zimmerman?
 

missesdash

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I don't feel like there are any opposing opinions in this argument. Race most likely played a part, but it's definitely not the only problematic aspect of the case.

We can examine all without dismissing others.
 

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Who is "minimizing"? On the contrary, my suggestion is that there is more to this than just race. And this? "the only ones" Really?

You missed the "seems to be" that prefaced "the only ones". As for minimizing, this:

But how else would the father defend him? What if he really does mentor minority kids and help people out? To the father, wouldn't that be evidence, to him, that his son is not racist? There's nothing wrong with what he said.

I have been thinking that this may be more a combination of ageism and stranger-danger than race.

along with this:

Those aren't the only two possibilities. The mindset that "black = dangerous" exists in a wide number of people, certainly, but the fact that the kid was black and Mr. Zimmerman is white still may have been irrelevant. If investigation reveals that Mr. Zimmerman is a racist, we'll probably find out.

and this:

Is part of my point. We don't know. So, focusing just on the one aspect does the tragedy an injustice (if that makes any sense) and MIGHT keep people for seeing the crime for what it is.

and this:

I think might be too limiting. Had he been Latino, or a "punk kid" with sagging jeans, an eyebrow stud and a couple of tats, it might have ended up the same. According to the accounts Zimmerman said "these assholes" not "these blacks/niggers/whatever."

...My concern, I think, is that jumping to the "this one racist ass murdered this poor kid." conclusion opens the door for any number of people and local systems to duck their share of the responsibility for this tragedy

along with some other comments earlier in the thread are forms of minimizing, especially considering all of these comments were made in direct response to comments about race.

No one has said there aren't *other* issues at play here. But when people bring up race -- going so far as to point out how they, as mothers of young black men, feel terror for their sons -- and others like yourself feel the need to respond to that in a somewhat patronizing way that there are other issues at work here besides race, or go on to question the veracity of any racial motivation in this particular incident, or call for some kind of "proof" of Zimmerman's racism, that is minimizing.

It's important to call out because it was too hard a fight for black people to be able to discuss their often very real fears of living while black in America without having to "prove" racism or being made to feel like they're "blowing it out of proportion". Short of being a known member in a racist organization or yelling out "hey ni**er!", racism is very difficult to "prove" but we all know it still exists. With other volatile circumstances, it can be deadly. And when mothers are having discussions with their sons about "driving while black", and they fear for those sons for something as benign as walking down the street because they are black, that is a serious problem that needs to be pointed out and magnified and addressed, not pushed to the side because, well, we just don't know if Zimmerman was a racist for sure and race might be totally irrelevant.
 

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You missed the "seems to be" that prefaced "the only ones".

No, I really didn't. As my link pointed out, it doesn't "seem" to be true.

My statements are in no way intended to minimize the possibility of racial components of this incident. Suggesting that ignores the first statement you quoted. There may be more to the story.

So, either I failed to communicate clearly, or you failed to read for comprehension.

How about we call it a coin toss?

Remember when the story first broke and people were saying that "a white guy killed a black kid"? That turned out not to be true, so now the white guy gets dropped and "that guy killed a black kid."

Again, do we consider that there may yet be more to the story? Or do we sit back and go with "every cop involved is a racist who is defending Zimmerman?"
 
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muravyets

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Yet again (Second time this thread.) that elephant has already been pointed out and lit up like the Met Life blimp.

I haven't seen anybody denying it, ignoring it, trying to hide it or dismiss it. Have you? Has there been any evidence that the PD in Florida is denying it? Instead, they denied that it was the boy who cried for help, and reported that it was Zimmerman. Do we assume that all of those cops were just as racist as we assume Zimmerman is, so that this theory works? Or is it reasonable to wonder if the PD has some other reason for protecting Zimmerman?
I don't see any reason not to discuss the elephant in more depth and detail in this context, personally. Whether the issue turns out to be that Zimmerman is a racist or the cops are, or just that racism is so increasingly an issue today that we should be discussing why we think Zimmerman was motivated by racial fear, or to what extent he may have been, etc., the issue is an important one that I personally think can offer insights into the incident and into reactions to it.

And I'll have to be honest, I think there is such a thing as going too far in assuming good intentions. I do believe that people are innocent until proven guilty, and so I will not say categorically, as an assertion of fact, that Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black.

But I will say this, and I'll stand by this, too: When I look at the information about the shooting that has been revealed to date, racism seems the most likely reason for why Zimmerman took the actions he did and why Martin is dead. That is based on the information published and on the extensive history of similar shootings throughout the USA for many, many years. In other words, it is based on an understanding of race issues in American culture.

So it is reasonable to always hold forth the caveat that we do not know for a fact that Zimmerman shot Martin out of racist motive or impulse or social conditioning, nor do we know that the police are actually shielding Zimmerman, let alone doing so out of their own racism.

But it is also reasonable for us to say, with that caveat given, that it sure as hell looks like a race-based killing. Or perhaps I should clarify and say another race-based killing.
 

Kitty27

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Having seen this happen too many times,I cannot doubt or question if race was a motive. It most definitely was.

As the mother of Black sons and having three brothers,cases like this arouse a deep fear in me for my boys and brothers. Trayvon Martin was profiled due to his race by George Zimmerman. I highly doubt he would have had the same reaction to a White or Asian teen-age boy out at night.

The circumstances surrounding the case don't do anything to erase my firm view that racism played a huge part.

He was told to stand down. He refused. He got out of his car and stalked this child and eventually shot him.The tapes chill me to my soul and make me hug my sons. It makes me fear even more for their safety when a clear case of murder isn't even presented as such. My pessimism is such that I see this going the way of Sean Bell,Oscar Grant and so many others who lost their lives for merely being Black and male.

What will it take? How many more will have to die before people understand there are people in this world who will kill someone due to their race and their stereotypical ideas about members of that race?

Will murder have to be recorded on video so irrefutable evidence can be presented before police? Wait,this doesn't even work as evidenced by Oscar Grant's case.

Will people ever understand that the police aren't trusted at all by people of color?

The police are seen in this manner by the Black community because too many of us have had encounters and issues with them to ever fully trust anything they say,especially regarding a case where a Black male is gunned down.Our trust lessens even further when we look at the history of these kinds of cases.

All I can do is try to support justice and give a heartfelt thanks to the people who are also trying to make it happen. That,and have another talk with my son about living in a society where he should be to do as he pleases as long as he harms no one,but the reality is very different.
 
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