After signing contract, editor kicks me out of book - can that be done?

Rechan · Nov 1, 2014

Can an editor/publisher remove an author from a publication after the contract has been signed, but before the book goes to print?

Nothing in my contract states this is possible. Further, the contract states that "The terms of this contract may only be altered by mutual written consent of both the author and the publisher".

I know the response is "go to a lawyer". Well, I don't have money to pay a lawyer right now. I just want to know if there's something outside of the contract giving the publisher this power.

Rechan · Nov 1, 2014

This was a contract that was faxed, so I don't know if the publisher signed the contract after I sent my signed copy in.

T Robinson · Nov 1, 2014

Logic says if you do not have a signed contract by them, you are going to have a difficult time proving anything.

shadowwalker · Nov 1, 2014

IANAL, but a publisher can't remove the author's name and publish it anyway. Unless you were one of several authors and they've removed your portions, or you were writing under contract (ie, to the publisher's specs)? But yes, if you want your rights protected, you need an attorney - the first consult doesn't usually cost that much.

Rechan · Nov 1, 2014

shadowwalker said:
IANAL, but a publisher can't remove the author's name and publish it anyway. Unless you were one of several authors and they've removed your portions, or you were writing under contract (ie, to the publisher's specs)? But yes, if you want your rights protected, you need an attorney - the first consult doesn't usually cost that much.

They're not publishing the story. That's the thing.

Contract says "We shall publish this story." Then they say "Nope, take your damn story back."

T Robinson · Nov 1, 2014

Then if you have in writing that you retain the rights, and do not have to pay any money back, I fail to see the problem? Except for irritation of course.

Osulagh · Nov 1, 2014

EDIT: Read this a bit wrong.

Rechan · Nov 1, 2014

T Robinson said:
Then if you have in writing that you retain the rights, and do not have to pay any money back, I fail to see the problem? Except for irritation of course.

They said they would print it. I signed a contract. They are now not printing it.

Isn't not printing it breaking the contract and therefore illegal? I want it printed, and if they cannot break that contract, then they're going to print it.

Osulagh · Nov 1, 2014

I believe there should be a section in the contract that states how to break the contract or what happens if the contract is broken.

Also, I'm unsure if a publishing contract guarantees that something is going to be published. They're buying rights, not making a promise that something will occur. They can say whatever they want, but if it's not in writing without some out method, then it cannot be enforced.

Rechan · Nov 1, 2014

Osulagh said:
I believe there should be a section in the contract that states how to break the contract or what happens if the contract is broken.

There is not, though.

Also, I'm unsure if a publishing contract guarantees that something is going to be published. They're buying rights, not making a promise that something will occur. They can say whatever they want, but if it's not in writing without some out method, then it cannot be enforced.

The verbiage is "The publisher shall initially publish the work within six (6) months after acceptance. of the manuscript, or as negotiated by the parties."

Old Hack · Nov 1, 2014

They didn't sign it, though, did they? You said the contract was faxed (to them, I assume) and you don't have a copy bearing original signatures from both parties. Therefore the contract hasn't been signed by the publisher.

If they've said they're not going to publish your story, and you have that in writing, AND they didn't sign the contract, it seems to me you don't have a contract with them and the story remains unpublished.

Who is the publisher, out of interest?

robjvargas · Nov 1, 2014

The only real answer you're going to get is from a lawyer in your jurisdiction.

The concept as I understand it, revolves around "being made whole." If they haven't paid you any money yet, and if rights are reverted back to you, then there's no harm done in the eyes of the law. So there's probably nothing you can do other than to start shopping it around.

But I AM NOT A LAWYER. If you go into court based on what I tell you, you deserve the laughter you'll get if you tell a court that you're proceeding based on what you read from an unpublished writer in the American Midwest. My opinion is worth every penny you've paid me for it.

shadowwalker · Nov 2, 2014

Okay, your first post wasn't clear. If your contract says they'll publish within six months, and they decide not to, then they've broken the contract (based on straight business law). Beg or borrow the cash, see a literary attorney, and have them check it out. They can tell you exactly where you stand and how to make sure you can take the story elsewhere for publication. Do NOT act based on a writing forum.

cornflake · Nov 2, 2014

Rechan said:
They said they would print it. I signed a contract. They are now not printing it.

Isn't not printing it breaking the contract and therefore illegal? I want it printed, and if they cannot break that contract, then they're going to print it.

I pretty much guarantee there's language in the contract that specifies that they don't have to print what they don't choose to. There's a kill fee, or not, or some language, akin to the 'or as negotiated,' that says they don't have to print it.

Or as negotiated implies there's an option. They don't, apparently, wish to negotiate one, though as you don't have any proof they signed a contract with you, it seems sort of moot.

Jo Zebedee · Nov 2, 2014

I think normally there is a clause that states the publisher will publish within a stated period of time and if they don't then the rights revert to you. Provided you get the rights back, I'm not sure there's anything more you can do? but if they don't publish and you don't get the rights back, that's a bigger issue. (But, really, I could be very wrong... If in doubt take proper advice.)

Old Hack · Nov 2, 2014

I am not a lawyer and so should not be considered an expert here, but as far as I see it, it doesn't matter what the contract states.

Rechan said:
This was a contract that was faxed, so I don't know if the publisher signed the contract after I sent my signed copy in.

If I've understood this correctly, you faxed your signed copy to the publisher but the publisher did not send you a copy with their signature on it.

You don't have a contract containing both your signature and the publisher's. So you can't prove that you were ever under contract with them, and it might well be that you weren't.

Rechan said:
They're not publishing the story. That's the thing.

Contract says "We shall publish this story." Then they say "Nope, take your damn story back."

You don't have a valid contract in your possession, and they've told you they don't want your story.

If you have that in writing from them, I'd suspect you're free to submit it elsewhere.

As you don't seem to have a copy of a properly-signed contract, I don't think there's anything you can do to force them to publish your story. And why would you want to? They've said they don't want it.

Osulagh · Nov 2, 2014

IANAL, but I believe if both parties do not have a contract in heir possession signed by each other, the contract is void. If they did not sign, they did not agree and hold no liability.

Old Hack said:
And why would you want to? They've said they don't want it.

Exactly what I'd question.

Also: Rechan, I can understand the disappointment in not having your book published, but from your posts here, I feel as if you thought they were obligated to publish your book and had to. Did you pay for this publisher to publish your book?

Rechan · Nov 2, 2014

To respond to several people, I actually went on Reddit's legal subreddit and had some responses.

The consensus was that even though I don't have a signed copy, I still have a (shakey) legal leg to stand on because I signed my half. However, going to court would be pointless. A court would reward damages (in this case just lost pay) or if the publication was a smash hit and thus everyone got exposure but me, then I might have a case. Just forcing the publisher to print the story is "Specific performance" and a court doesn't order that unless there's no other action.

This was an e-magazine, so it was a short story that was rejected, not a book.

Rechan · Nov 2, 2014

Old Hack said:
Who is the publisher, out of interest?

Shroud Publishing, specifically Shroud Magazine.

shadowwalker · Nov 2, 2014

Rechan said:
This was an e-magazine, so it was a short story that was rejected, not a book.

That's not what you first stated, at all. :Wha:

Take back your story and move on.

Rechan · Nov 2, 2014

shadowwalker said:
That's not what you first stated, at all. Take back your story and move on.

Book, ebook, same difference.

He was rude and it was an unprofessional move, I want to know if he has the power to do what he did.

Old Hack · Nov 2, 2014

Rechan said:
Shroud Publishing, specifically Shroud Magazine.

We have a brief thread about Shroud in BR&BC. It doesn't look too bad.

Rechan said:
To respond to several people, I actually went on Reddit's legal subreddit and had some responses.

Ah, well. If you took legal advice from a bunch of random people on the internet you're GOLD!

Sorry. But there's no guarantee that they know what they're talking about; and even if they are qualified to give legal advice, if they're not specialists in IP and publishing law they aren't going to be able to give appropriate advice.

Just forcing the publisher to print the story is "Specific performance" and a court doesn't order that unless there's no other action.

You've used this sort of phrasing a couple of times before.

Printing is what printers do. It's a tiny part of publishing. Be careful what you ask for.

This was an e-magazine, so it was a short story that was rejected, not a book.

Why are you so keen to see them publish this particular work, when they've already told you they don't want it? Why should they publish it?

It seems odd that a publisher would offer you a contract, send the contract, and then just change their mind without any sort of friction or problem arising after their sending out the contract. I wonder: is there anything you've not told us? Did you have any disagreements or confusions with them in the intervening time?

Rechan · Nov 2, 2014

Old Hack said:
Ah, well. If you took legal advice from a bunch of random people on the internet you're GOLD!

Your snark is neither helpful nor appreciated.

You've used this sort of phrasing a couple of times before.

Printing is what printers do. It's a tiny part of publishing. Be careful what you ask for.

I'm sorry I'm not using precise terminology. I'm using publishing and printing synonymously in terms of "putting out the product".

Why are you so keen to see them publish this particular work, when they've already told you they don't want it? Why should they publish it?

Because I signed a contract and they voided it at the last minute. It's the principle. I feel wronged. I want to know if they have the power to do what they did and what I can do about it.

It seems odd that a publisher would offer you a contract, send the contract, and then just change their mind without any sort of friction or problem arising after their sending out the contract. I wonder: is there anything you've not told us? Did you have any disagreements or confusions with them in the intervening time?

There was friction, but no direct disagreements or confusion. However, I started this thread to ask about the powers a publisher has relating to a contract. I want to know if they can do what they did.

Cathy C · Nov 2, 2014

Did the editor say it was out completely, or just out of the issue originally proposed? I worked in magazines for a number of years and sometimes a particular issue would change focus for reasons beyond the editor's control--from world events to advertisers, etc., and my article would get moved to another issue months later.

Also, did you refuse any of the editorial requests (if any were made?) Sometimes that's a contract requirement. You might look at that paragraph in your copy.

Rechan · Nov 2, 2014

Cathy C said:
Did the editor say it was out completely, or just out of the issue originally proposed?

His words were the story was released, it would not be published.

Also, did you refuse any of the editorial requests (if any were made.)

No. In fact the editor never sent me any edits.

After signing contract, editor kicks me out of book - can that be done?

Rechan

Rechan

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

shadowwalker

empty-nester!

Rechan

T Robinson

Born long ago, in a different era

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

Rechan

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

Rechan

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

robjvargas

shadowwalker

empty-nester!

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Jo Zebedee

space opera-popcorn lover!

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

Rechan

Rechan

shadowwalker

empty-nester!

Rechan

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

Rechan

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Rechan