Where can I find a good editor?

Mary_MO

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I've read and read and read, then I've researched and researched and researched.

I am now cross-eyed!
I'm still trying to understand the whole publishing thing, so let's just focus on one thing at a time or my head will surely explode with all this information.

Where would you look to find a good editor?
Would it based on genre/fiction or non-fiction?

Or just simply link me to the right website or thread post so I can peruse this for myself.
I can already feel the anxiety building....*grabs a paper bag and starts hyperventilating into it*
 

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If you are looking to hire a freelance editor (because you intend to self publish, or you want some one-on-one tutelage, or you want to super-polish your manuscript before submitting it to publishers/agents and you are unable to develop some editing skills due to dyslexia or whatever), you will definitely want someone who is experienced in the genre you write in.

You also need to know what kind of editing you want. Structural editing, where the editor will comment on scenes and character arcs and plot twists (editing at the level of the novel)? Line editing, where the editor will comment on prose quality (editing at the level of the sentence/paragraph)? Copy-editing, where the editor will look for typos and misplaced commas (editing at the word level)? All three?

You also need to know how much you can afford to invest in your manuscript. As a rule of thumb, good editors aren't cheap, and cheap editors aren't good.
 

Mary_MO

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How much are we talking about here? Give me a ballpark figure and I'll see what I can work with.

I can already feel the hole getting bigger as it burns through the pocket of my jeans.

The corporation I work for is already going bankrupt, maybe if I slept with the CEO he'll give me a few hours of over time....just kidding. :D

Sorry I'll crack lame jokes when I'm getting nervous.
 

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What is the piece of work you want edited, and what kind of editing do you want, and why?
 

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I'm not sure -- I haven't done any comparison shopping - but I'd expect to be quoted something between $600 - $1200 for work on a novel, depending on whether I was looking for just line editing or a full dissect-and-editing-letter + line editing.

Here's a thing from the Editors' Association of Canada on rates: http://www.editors.ca/content/what-do-editors-charge
 
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Assuming genre fiction, no ESL, no fact-checking.... around $2000 for 80,000 words.

Assuming specialist non-fiction intended for publication in a peer-reviewed journal, ESL, fact-checking required -- around $500 for 3000 words
 

Mary_MO

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Everything, I want everything edited. It's a fictional novel for a YA genre and it looks like it'll be around 80k words.

If I'm going to do this right and I have to up front the money then so be it. But I just want to make sure I get the facts first, basically I'm gathering information.

I will shop around of course, I may be new to all this, but I'm not going to do this with my eyes closed.

This is why I'm asking in the first place. Learn about your opponent, figure out what your up against and see what you have to use as a weapon to counter their attacks. (Figuratively speaking) :)
 
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If I'm going to do this right and I have to up front the money then so be it.
There is no rule saying an author has to hire an editor. For an author who is self publishing, it's not uncommon for them to hire an editor as well as a cover artist, since they are acting as both publisher and editor. For an author who is submitting to trade presses, hiring an editor is uncommon as the publisher will have editors on staff.

Learn about your opponent, figure out what your up against and see what you have to use as a weapon to counter their attacks.
?? I have no idea what you mean by this. Editors, publishers, agents, and authors are not your opponents. No one is going to attack you. No weapons are needed.
 

Mary_MO

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There is no rule saying an author has to hire an editor. For an author who is self publishing, it's not uncommon for them to hire an editor as well as a cover artist, since they are acting as both publisher and editor. For an author who is submitting to trade presses, hiring an editor is uncommon as the publisher will have editors on staff.


?? I have no idea what you mean by this. Editors, publishers, agents, and authors are not your opponents. No one is going to attack you. No weapons are needed.

Sorry, What I mean is that I just don't want to be caught of guard by editors or publishers who will just string me along. Either they work with me or not, all I need is a simple yes or no answer and that is it.

I've read so much posts/comments about the back and forth subject on publishing and self-publishing. I'm extremely overwhelmed by it all, so I moved to something that I've been more concerned with and that's editing. Basically I suck! I've been out of school for decades now and I'm having to rely on websites to refresh my memory while I complete my novel.

I just wanted to know how far I need to go before I decide which publishing route I should take.
 

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Sorry, What I mean is that I just don't want to be caught of guard by editors or publishers who will just string me along. Either they work with me or not, all I need is a simple yes or no answer and that is it.

Publishers will work with you if they decide to contract your book. They won't know or care if you've worked with an editor prior to submission.

Editors on staff with the publisher who contracts your book will work with you because that is their job.

Freelance editors will work with you if your book fits into their area of expertise, if you can pay their rates, and if they can fit you into their schedule.

It's really that simple.

I just wanted to know how far I need to go before I decide which publishing route I should take.
1. Write the novel. All the way to The End.
2. Read the novel.
3. Make revisions as you please.
4. Decide what you want to do with the novel. Self publish it? Submit it to trade presses? Query agents? Trunk it? Run it through some beta readers? Rewrite it from scratch?

When you are at step 4 is when you'll decide whether or not you might want to hire a freelance editor. But be aware that while it can be a great learning experience, and it can improve your manuscript, the odds are you will never get back the money you've invested. Most self published novels won't sell enough copies to make the author a profit of several thousand dollars, and most manuscripts submitted to trade presses don't get picked up for publication.

When the time comes, you probably get the most feedback re editor recommendations either in "Ask the Editor" or in the section devoted to your particular genre. Someone was asking just last week about freelance editors for YA.
 
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Mary_MO

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Basically, you're telling me to stop worrying about finding an editor until I I've completed my first novel, which will be sometime tomorrow tonight.

I'll go through it again and reread it to see what I need to fix.

Since this will be a four part series and the first novel is an open ending, what are the chances of an agent taking me on?
 

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Since this will be a four part series and the first novel is an open ending, what are the chances of an agent taking me on?
If the first novel is not a stand-alone, and if you do not have substantial publishing credits with professional markets, the chances of an agent taking you on are, realistically, very close to zero.
 

Mary_MO

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Yup, that's what I figured.
Then it'll be years, before I'm finally done with all four.

Thank you everyone for all your input.
 
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Cathy C

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Actually, you need to look at the whole process completely differently before you go forward.

1. Complete novel #1
2. Be sure that it tells a complete story. By that, I mean that the primary plot OF the first book is fully wrapped up. The world arc can spread over multiple books (and most all of my own books are in series with a world arc), but the plot of book #1 needs to be a standalone that will satisfy a reader, and make them want more.
3. Edit the book using the tools you can learn here for free.
4. Use the Share Your Work subforum here at AW to learn more about the process of plotting, characterization and dialogue--also for free.
5. Find a beta reader or two (also free if you use our Beta/CP forum)

Then, and only then, will you be in a position to DECIDE whether to look for an editor. Why only then? Because agents and editors really would prefer you NOT use a paid editor, because they will then have no way of knowing whether you'll be able to successfully work with them on the edits they will want you to make without help. And if they pay you an advance to publish it, you'll have already spent it. :(

Note that "Start Book #2" isn't on the list. Trust me that I know how hard it is to have to wait to tell the rest of the story in your head until a publisher has agreed to buy the first one and makes their edits. But I can assure you that you will have one heck of a time editing FOUR books if the publisher drastically changes the direction of the first one. (Hard, painful experience talking here.)

Yes, it'll be hard . . . and it should be. Readers deserve that effort. Just take a deep breath and hang in there. We'll be with you for the whole ride. :)
 
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Mary_MO

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Okay I understand what you're saying about the rest, but I keep coming back to that one word "standalone." What exactly does that mean?

And when you say "fully wrapped up" are you saying that I need to end the first novel completely, without introducing the second series?

Okay maybe I'm not really understanding this completely, I'm a little confused now.

I apologize, I'm really new at this, please bare with me.
 

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If I may be so bold -- it means think of the book series as a series of connected complete stories, each with a start, middle and end, that together build an overall picture, rather than a miniseries or a tv show ending episodes on a cliffhanger.

The first book needs to have a main story that is wrapped up and feels satisfying, like you could tack a 'the end' on it and it would feel good. It can have other elements in it that lead into and are picked up in later books, like dropping in a character who becomes the main character of book 2, locations and myths that become important later, and so on, but the main story has to come to at least a solid pause.

Think of Star Wars, if you've seen those movies? A New Hope stands alone - the movie starts with a problem (get the droids to Alderaan), develops the problem (crap! Save the princess!), has a big climax (blow up the Death Star!) and resolves at a possible happy ever after (the big weapon is gone, the heroes live to fight another day).

Even if you never watch any of the other movies, it's a satisfying ending.

Empire Strikes Back is the opposite - it pauses, rather than ends. Han Solo's been captured, there've been chase scenes, but we know the big bad guys are still out there causing trouble. It's not really a stand-alone story. It picks up on a lot of threads set up int he first movie, uses the same characters, adds more... but doesn't have a really resolved ending as much as it has a chapter break. We know that there has to be more to the story than just that.

Return of the Jedi starts in media res - it doesn't have an easy beginning if you haven't seen the first two - but it ends gloriously, wrapping up most of the plot threads and foreshadowing laid in the earlier two. There is no doubt that the main characters will, from here on, live happily ever after.

To sell a first book, it needs to have a New Hope ending - not with everything fixed, but with the main storyline finished and left at a point where a sequel is not a necessity.

Does that help at all?
 
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Mary_MO

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Actually yes it does, thank you.

Now I just need to go back and reread it. Then get together with my beta reader and see it there are any loose ends we need to tie up before we could move forward.

But when George Lucas wrote Star Wars wasn't it one whole big screen play?

Anyways, I get what you're saying. Thanks again!
 

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Okay I understand what you're saying about the rest, but I keep coming back to that one word "standalone." What exactly does that mean?

And when you say "fully wrapped up" are you saying that I need to end the first novel completely, without introducing the second series?

Okay maybe I'm not really understanding this completely, I'm a little confused now.

I apologize, I'm really new at this, please bare with me.

Some series are a set of books that each stand alone, and can be read independently of the others, but share a world/character/ongoing plotline. Others are a set of books that cannot be read independently of the others, and that do not wrap up a storyline at the end of each book. The former is a lot easier to sell. The latter is very, very difficult to sell.
 

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Some series are a set of books that each stand alone, and can be read independently of the others, but share a world/character/ongoing plotline. Others are a set of books that cannot be read independently of the others, and that do not wrap up a storyline at the end of each book. The former is a lot easier to sell. The latter is very, very difficult to sell.

See, that's what has me so confused. My novels are like an entire plot, together. The first is almost like an introduction. I introduce the readers to my characters all eight of them, since they're going to be paired. The MC's are the four quadruplets, their people are a new whole race I've created and this includes their world that I don't intend to introduce until later in the series.
The first one I'm about to finish will end soon, but it's turning out more like a love story. He just impregnated her and they don't even know it yet until the next series. That is when I'll have her sister mention the new life she's carrying. But by then it'll be her sister's turn to tell her story.
 

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So, my novel can NOT standalone and my readers will not be satisfied. :(
Well, damn I just screwed this up big time.
 

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See, that's what has me so confused. My novels are like an entire plot, together. The first is almost like an introduction. I introduce the readers to my characters all eight of them, since they're going to be paired. The MC's are the four quadruplets, their people are a new whole race I've created and this includes their world that I don't intend to introduce until later in the series.
Consider the possibility that this is all back-story the author needs to know, but the reader does not. The reader wants to be entertained. So every scene needs to have tension. Every scene needs to advance the plot and add to characterisation and add to setting.

The story starts when things start happening.
 

Cathy C

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Ah! What you've got is a romance continuity series! Siblings finding love are a big sell.

Basically, your plot of book 1 needs to include the first couple's romance. Introduce all the people--this is fine, but only give points of view to the two who will fall in love. He/she then has plenty of people around to worry with, complain to and eventually share the joy of falling in love with. Book 2 opens with the second sibling's point of view along with his/her love interest's point of view and you follow them along. You might consider reading some of the more successful sibling series in your particular romance sub-genre (and if you don't know what a romance sub-genre is yet, read this thread) for ideas on what works and what wouldn't for your people. :)
 
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Mary_MO

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Thank you Cathy!
I've already begun the revisions of my novel and I'm basically pulling it apart scene by scene. At first I wasn't sure what it was, but I was up most of the night thinking about it and I realized that yes it is a romance novel. It has a lot of action as well and I want to make sure it's exciting too.

One of my favorite author, the one that has inspired me to write the mythology/biblical twist idea is Sherrilyn Kenyon. I've been following ALL her work.:)