"Old" People Writing for Teens V

Sage

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I feel like if an agent or editor insisted on said changes I would try to make it work, but I would only change them if I had to.
I think this is pretty common. It's hard to make drastic changes based on a beta's thoughts, even if you think it might make a work more marketable. But when an agent or editor suggests a drastic R&R--as long as the changes make sense to you--suddenly you start seeing them in a new light.

Of course, the disadvantage is that you might have already wasted your chance on fulls if this guidance comes late enough, but it's really hard to make that change based on betas, I know.
 

Stiger05

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Thanks, guys! I don't usually get down like this, but lately it has just been piling on. I am working on something new, but I question if it's marketable or if I'm pushing the envelope too much. Oh well. I just need to write the dadgum thing, haha.


So just got back another set of beta comments. I've had quite a few, though not all from writers. Non-writer comments get taken with grains of salt based on how much they love me and how many YA books they read. Anyway, this one is a writer and though she said she liked the story she suggested some major cuts and changes. I don't entirely disagree that it might make it more marketable, but it would change things drastically. All of my other betas, including several writers have been happy with story as it stands with just a little work on show don't tell. Not sure how much credit to give to this beta's opinion. I feel like if an agent or editor insisted on said changes I would try to make it work, but I would only change them if I had to.

I say go with your gut. If you think this beta is right but just don't want to tear the story apart and start over, then maybe tearing it apart is what you need to do. If you ultimately love the story where it is, with the minor changes from other betas, than make the small changes and query and see what kind of responses you get.

I've been in both boats. I've done major cuts that a beta suggested (mel, actually! :D), which deep down I knew the story needed, I just didn't want to do it. (That's the ms that got me an agent). I've also had betas suggest major cuts that I didn't feel the story needed, so I basically ignored the suggestions and ended up with a ms I love (the one I'm on sub with now).
 

Parametric

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I don't think I've ever written a manuscript that didn't need major revisions after beta reads. Which is a sad reflection on my writing skills. :D
 

Sage

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Or a happy reflection on your acceptance of beta suggestions :)
 

Sage

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Incidentally, I think that this R&R would be completely different if I hadn't done the first R&R. Now maybe it wouldn't have gotten to the R&R stage this time, but considering the changes being made, I think it might have, and that the changes might look a lot different because the editor would be coming from a different template than she would have with the original version. But this is the version I'm working with now, and based on some of the things she wants me to cut that were in v.1 and v.2, I'm thinking she wouldn't have wanted what I cut between the versions anyway. But I'm not sure where the ending would have led if using v.1.
 

J.S.F.

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Which is why having other people read your work is so glorious and scary! :D
---

It can also be a soul-sucking, confidence destroying, life shattering experience.

But hey, that's what good betas are for.;)
 

Hapax Legomenon

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It can also cause you to toss entire manuscripts in the trash bin because you realize that's exactly where they belong.
 

inkspatters

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I also almost always do some kind of major revision based on beta comments because it's highly unlikely that I haven't screwed up structure, worldbuilding or character somewhere. But I really, really like revisions.

Stiger05, *hugs* going on sub and getting editor rejections is the most disheartening experience (I can relate, the book that got me my agent never sold). Be gentle with yourself, don't think that you've let everyone down. Trust the people who love your work to understand that the market is volatile and unpredictable. *more hugs*

Southbel, congrats to your daughter!
 

Sage

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Woo, I killed at revising today. I'm almost done with that last "quarter", except that I need to get the very end. I'm taking a break to let myself get it right.

My word count is high again :(
 

Hapax Legomenon

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Sage, what's so bad about a high wordcount?

Also, possibly a stupid question: does "sniffed" make sense as a dialogue tag, or am I just insane?
 

J.S.F.

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Hapax, maybe she's encountering a "kill your darlings" moment? Or maybe the publisher wants a certain wordcount. IDK, so I won't put any words into her mouth and I apologize for semi-butting in.

On the third rewrite of my novel...wondering how many people would actually be interested. There are relatively few novels featuring transgendered people as main characters. Not saying that there haven't been novels with transgendered characters in them, just saying as major characters there have been something like thirty, which ain't a whole lot. Overall, rewriting is hard but fun...I want to make this a good one.
 

CoffeeBeans

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Also, possibly a stupid question: does "sniffed" make sense as a dialogue tag, or am I just insane?

Sniffed can be a dialogue tag. I'm guessing you mean sniffed in a haughty, dismissive way? If you mean it in a sniffled way, I'd probably use sniffled.

"Sniff" has completely lost it's meaning after typing that...

Got a nice note in response to my beta comments. It's nice to feel useful.

Filed my taxes online in 23 minutes. I think that just proves I don't make much money, but I felt like a boss.
 

lisalulu09

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I have a very, very complex SNI that WILL NOT LEAVE ME ALONE.
 

Bing Z

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Also, possibly a stupid question: does "sniffed" make sense as a dialogue tag, or am I just insane?

According to CALD (my go-to dictionary when I'm writing):
sniff verb
1 [I or T] to smell something by taking air in through your nose:
He sniffed his socks to see if they needed washing.
Dogs love sniffing each other.
She sniffed at her glass of wine before tasting it.
Dogs are sometimes used at airports to sniff out (= find by smelling) drugs in people's luggage.
He was expelled from school for sniffing glue (= taking in the gas from glue because of the feelings of pleasure that this gives).

2 to take air in quickly through your nose, usually to stop the liquid inside the nose from flowing out:
You were sniffing a lot - I presumed you had a cold.

3 [T] to speak in an unpleasant way, showing that you have a low opinion of something:
[+ speech] "They didn't even serve wine at dinner!" she sniffed.
So yes, you can use it as tag.

@Lisa... either you sell your very very complex SNI to me for one penny or you write a very very complex story and risk becoming a snotty filthy rich best selling author.

If I were you, I'd choose selling for a penny :D
 

lisalulu09

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Oh, and when it comes to the rewrite, every word feels like drawing water from a stone. Ugh.
 

Sage

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Sage, what's so bad about a high wordcount?
It was 85K, it is 75K now, and the editor wants it to be 65K. I think that if the novel is otherwise tight (everything leftover from version 1 certainly is), I can get away with 70K.
 

Sage

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What's funny is that I usually end up in the 50-65K region, and feel like it's too short for SFF, so I was really pleased when TM was 75-85K.
 

jtrylch13

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Which is why having other people read your work is so glorious and scary! :D

---

It can also be a soul-sucking, confidence destroying, life shattering experience.

But hey, that's what good betas are for.;)

Beta exchange summed up in two sentences!

Sage, what's so bad about a high wordcount?

Also, possibly a stupid question: does "sniffed" make sense as a dialogue tag, or am I just insane?

Yes to sniffed. I like it.


I'm totally open to small and big revisions if they make the story stronger. I may make some of her suggestions, but definitely not all. One in particular is something I feel very strongly about and I'm not changing it. Not one of the other seven+ people who read the novel had the least problem with it so I feel good about keeping it. Some of her other suggestions are actually things I worry about, but once again no one else had a problem with it, so I'm on the fence. Anyway, going to spend eight hours in the car today driving one of my twins to a doctors appointment so I'll have a lot of time to think before I hopefully start working tomorrow. Of course that's assuming my "real" life won't get in the way of writing again!
 

Stiger05

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I wonder if there's a point in a writer's career where sending a ms off to a beta isn't a terrifying experience? I guess if you reach a King/Patterson/Grisham type level, maybe. Every time I send one off I flitter around my email, jumping every time I get a new message, terrified of opening it and seeing what the other person thought.

I'm finally ready to sit down and get going on my WIP, but I don't have time to write. Grrrr. I did stroll through the bookstore yesterday looking for comparable titles. Nothing. Don't know if this is good, in that there's a space for mine in the market, or bad, in that I'm off in left field.
 

jtrylch13

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I thought I was in a good place writing post-apocalyptic when I started a year and a half ago, but now PA Survival seems to be a thing and agents are saying in interviews they get a lot of queries for those. Luckily, none that I see in the stores really resembles mine. The closest is Mindy McGinnis's NOT A DROP TO DRINK. Otherwise, everything is zombies or being locked in a school and I see a lot of school buses on the covers. Basically, right when apocalypse has started. Mine starts eight years after apocalypse and deals with MC who grew up in this transition period and how she deals with life now.

Good luck Stiger with finding that writing time. I send my twins to daycare twice a week so I can write, but it seems there's always something: doctor's appointments, sick kids, room mom duties at school, family holidays, etc. If I don't get back into the writing groove soon I am literally going to explode! Messy pieces of frustrated writer everywhere!