All Things Middle Grade

MsJudy

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Well, I probably can't do it justice, but I'll try...

The "beats" are the places in your story where certain kinds of emotional things need to be happening. They're divided up so you know about how much time/words/pages to spend developing each section.

He has clever names for the sections, like All is Lost and the Bad Guys Close In. Now I find myself labeling parts of books and movies as I'm reading/watching. It's helping me a lot to understand why certain stories work, why they feel satisfying when you get to the end.
 

Smish

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I'm glad Judy mentioned this book. The author has passed away, but he has a website that explains it a bit. The book really goes into more detail, but here's an example of someone dissecting the Hunger Games into his "beats" (the numbers in parenthesis correspond to the page number in the script where the important event happens) - http://www.blakesnyder.com/2012/04/27/the-hunger-games-bookmovie-beat-sheet-comparison/

Thanks, Sheila! I'll check that out. I'll eventually read the book, too.

Well, I probably can't do it justice, but I'll try...

The "beats" are the places in your story where certain kinds of emotional things need to be happening. They're divided up so you know about how much time/words/pages to spend developing each section.

He has clever names for the sections, like All is Lost and the Bad Guys Close In. Now I find myself labeling parts of books and movies as I'm reading/watching. It's helping me a lot to understand why certain stories work, why they feel satisfying when you get to the end.

Ah. That does sound helpful. Thanks for explaining.
 

Pineapple Rain

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Having just finished reading Nancy Lamb's "Crafting Stories for Children," I am finally ready to get started on the long road of rewriting my MG novel. Different MC, different world, different plot AND different villain than the last version, and I'm so ready for this!

So... hi all!
 

Britwriter

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So, I've read Save the Cat, and am here reporting back. :)

First off, wow, it helped. But it also threw up even more questions that right now I can't answer.

I had several 'aha' moments as I read, and made some simple changes that make a huge difference with my MG rewrite. For example, because I'm changing the MC to a boy, I realized that the 'All is Lost' part was not lost enough. The skateboard needed to be trashed. Literally. For a girl, the potential of a trashed skateboard and a hurt sibling was easily enough. But for a boy MC, the board had to be top-of-the line, and it had to be trashed, until the wheels span around and fell off. :)

However, I'm now looking at my board wondering if the exactness of the Save a Cat beat sheet is necessary for a novel. Blake Snyder is very clear, when, for a screenplay, something has to happen on page 25, for example, it can't be page 23 or 27, it has to be exactly on page 25. So, when my 'fun and games' section goes on, proportionally, longer than he recommends, do I cut some out, I wonder, or is it only important to be so exact with a screenplay, which is going to last a specific number of minutes?

It is interesting looking at where my plot fits the beat sheet, and where it doesn't. I can make some simple tweaks to make it fit in some places, and I've already made some simple additions and alterations that I think improve it, but then toward the end I can't see a correlation for a while, until the final chapter.

So, now I'm brain-dead. Part of me wants to start afresh and storyboard my plot into his beat sheet and see if I can re-create the story that way, and part of me wants to shut Save the Cat and forget it, at least for a while, as I work on the manuscript.

I am sold, however. For future projects, I am going to work out plot using the beat sheet before I ever start writing.

But for this project, I just don't know right now. I really do recommend checking the book out though. I will watch movies in future and be checking off against the sheet. I will also read MG with this in mind now, to see if the same principles really do apply to older MG. It will be interesting to see.
 

Kitty Pryde

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I've noticed that a lot of recent longer mg, fantasy especially, has dreadful pacing. Like, the problem is set up on page ten, 100 pages of tootling around, get a sidekick, 100 pages lost in the woods like a damn hobbit, gain magical doodad, 100 pages of being afraid of the bad guy, ten page epic battle, then everybody go home for hot cocoa. Authors don't always keep the action rolling, and it's enough for me to put down the book. I could point to some otherwise intriguing books that didn't sell very well, and I think this is a main reason why!
 

MsJudy

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Good question, Brit. I think some stories need to be paced more carefully than others. Like, if the "fun and games" are fun enough, who cares if they last a little longer?

I saw The Exotic Marigold Hotel this weekend. Interesting to work out how the beats happen for an ensemble cast... But they did happen. Every story line had its All is Lost moment at about the same time, with events threatening the community they'd built together at the hotel. But two characters exit early, and their departures act as catalysts for everyone else's Dark Night of the Soul.

So I would say that of course there's some flexibility, depending on what the story needs. But for me, having been rejected once too often for not having a strong enough plot, I'm not going to stray too far from it until I've got a better handle on things.
 

Britwriter

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ITA Kitty about some longer fantasy having pacing issues. I've found that several times, where suddenly the epic battle takes three pages, done, and everyone's back home, after ten meandering chapters where nothing really happens. It leaves the reader feeling very dissatisfied.

Judy, that's what I'm thinking about the Fun and Games, especially as my rework is on a book where the fun and games are pretty hilarious. I had cut one chapter already, and reading Save the Cat confirmed to me that I was right. But it's hard to see which others to cut, to keep it to the page balance for the Beat Sheet. For now, I'm going to leave them in, even if it means my page #s are not balancing. I'm wondering if it's so important for a novel. You don't have your audience for just 110 minutes, they can put a book down and come back later, so if the fun and games is really engaging and draws the reader on, I'm not so sure it matters if it's longer.

It's going to be a lot of work, but I'm excited about the prospect of reworking the second half to try to get that more in line with the beat sheet.

This is an exercise I'd really recommend to anyone, either with a completed work or a new idea. Just seeing where my plot fitted the formula and where it didn't was really enlightening. Some fixes were very simple, others will be more complex and take some work. And so far, all the fixes I've made have felt right, and not forced.

I will be plotting out new ideas from now on using the beat sheet. It's taken me out of a fog into some moments of real clarity. :)
 

SheilaJG

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Did any of you catch the hoopla over Scholastic's new "How to Survive Anything" books? One is for boys, and includes how to survive a snakebite, being lost in the forest, a plane crash, broken leg, forest fire, avalanche, swarm of bees, etc. Then there's the girl version - How to survive a "BFF fight," a breakout, how to keep stuff secret (really, Scholastic?), "How to handle becoming rich," "How to pick the perfect sunglasses," and how to spot a frenemy.

Wowza. There you go, girls. You don't need to venture out in nature. All your challenges will take place during sleepovers with your friends.

Anyway, here's a link that shows all the chapter titles, if you haven't seen it already:


http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/scholastic-books-sends-girls-misogynistic-message
 

wampuscat

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Did any of you catch the hoopla over Scholastic's new "How to Survive Anything" books? One is for boys, and includes how to survive a snakebite, being lost in the forest, a plane crash, broken leg, forest fire, avalanche, swarm of bees, etc. Then there's the girl version - How to survive a "BFF fight," a breakout, how to keep stuff secret (really, Scholastic?), "How to handle becoming rich," "How to pick the perfect sunglasses," and how to spot a frenemy.

Wowza. There you go, girls. You don't need to venture out in nature. All your challenges will take place during sleepovers with your friends.

Anyway, here's a link that shows all the chapter titles, if you haven't seen it already:


http://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/scholastic-books-sends-girls-misogynistic-message

Yuck.
 

Marzipan

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How to survive a "BFF fight," a breakout, how to keep stuff secret (really, Scholastic?), "How to handle becoming rich," "How to pick the perfect sunglasses," and how to spot a frenemy.

Why couldn't they just make the boy-book unisex and add a few more 'girl-friendly' things to the list ? This is puzzling :S
 

playground

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Why couldn't they just make the boy-book unisex and add a few more 'girl-friendly' things to the list ? This is puzzling :S


Oh god, I can just imagine Scholastic trying to be "fair" with these type of books. I can picture it now for the girls: "How to cook the perfect cupcake!" "How to make your toy baby the best baby in the world!" I thought we'd be past this clear sexism when it comes to literature, especially with such a strong company as scholastic. I'm a guy and I hate it.

Girls can be adventurous and daring!
 

Morrell

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Arrgh. That's just wrong. Why would anyone want to limit girls to one sphere of interest? My daughter can be all about the social drama at times, but that's not all there is to her. If you want to see a pic of her hanging out with a rat snake (not a cottonmouth, thank goodness, which they also found on that particular camping trip), go to my blog and scroll down the sidebar.

Also, I have to say, plenty of boys would benefit from social skills tips sprinkled in amongst the disaster survival advice.
 

wampuscat

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I understand the marketing angle of "boys only" and "girls only," but the fact that these are sold almost like companion books is the part that really makes me angry. Maybe some girls do want to know how to spot a frenemy, but some girls also want to know how to survive an earthquake. If you want to do these books with similar covers and released at the same time, you're basically comparing boys to girls, and the fact that all the boys things are adventure oriented and all the girls things are boy/popularity/beauty/shopping oriented makes me really sad.
 

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Oh my gosh.

On the Scholastic website they say they are stopping further publication of this book, and that it has had only limited distribution. But it's still up on amazon today. It seems that no action to actually pull the book is going to happen, they'll sell what they've printed first.

I can't believe that this rubbish ever saw the light of day. What were they thinking?
 

Marzipan

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I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, because surely someone would have thought 'you know, this is going to come off as sexist' but since that didn't happen, it makes me wonder. I mean, I KNOW there are intelligent people that work at Scholastic but how did this even happen?
 

ruecole

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Wow. Just wow. I'm surprised the first one isn't How to Survive a Broken Nail. Geez.

I don't have a problem with a few of these. How to Survive a Crush/Embarrassment/Shyness could be useful (and probably could've appeared in the boy version too) and I think How to Survive Brothers could be hilarious. But the fact there's absolutely no REAL survival tips is rather appalling!

I suggest we make our own list (and then send it to Scholastic!):

How to Survive on a Deserted Island
How to Survive the Jungle
How to Survive a Viral Outbreak
How to Survive a Hurricane
How to Survive a Kidnapping
How to Survive Getting Lost
How to Survive an Ice Storm
How to Survive a Power Outage
How to Survive a Heat Wave
How to Survive a Paranormal Encounter (Ghost Attack?)

Okay, that's all I've got for now. Anybody else?

Rue
 

MJWare

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I know, right? Do any women actually work at Scholastic?

Yes, but they aren't qualified to be in management or marketing. Their smaller brain size, and unholy baby making powers means they are limited to acquisitions and editing.

If we do an AW version, put me down for the chapter on Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse.

I did have an idea like this some years ago, 101 Things Every Man Should Know.
Everything from emergency survival swimming, to tying a tie, to sowing a button. I figured it would make a good graduation gift. But the subject was too boring to actually write =-)
 

heza

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Everything from emergency survival swimming, to tying a tie, to sowing a button.

Your typo made me giggle because I'm picturing groves of button trees now. There's a red plastic button tree and a tree with those silver ones that always have some crest-looking thing on them and a wooden tog tree... and there might even be a stray hybrid in there for snaps.
 

ruecole

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Sorry, mware, it's been done before:

http://www.dangerousbookforboys.com/

Not only does it include stuff like tying a tie and sewing a button, but it also has how-to info on building tree forts and go-karts and skinning rabbits and shooting guns and everything boys used to know how to do 30+ years ago. So, of course, I bought it for my son. ;)

Thought of a couple more:

How to Survive a Car Accident
How to Survive on $10
How to Survive a Head Injury
How to Survive a Broken Heart
How to Survive the Death of a Pet
How to Survive a House Fire

Gee, I think Scholastic should pay me for this. ;)

Rue