Reviews for a self published book.

As a counterpoint to everyone who mentioned Goodreads giveaways, remember that giveaway winners are *not* obligated to post a review.

You'd have better luck, IMO, with review-specific groups on Goodreads, like "Making Connections".

About Giveaways, no they aren't obligated, but then no one is unless you pay for a review. I tried Making Connections, and got some requests, but no reviews. I'm not complaining, that's just how it goes.

The thing I like about Goodreads Giveaways though is that it gets your book in front of a lot of people. I've seen giveaways with "people requesting" from 300, to 3,000....that's a lot of eyes on your book. And every time someone enters a giveaway, it is on their page and potentially all their friends seeing your book.

I've heard that a Goodreads Giveaway gave Allie Condie's Matched, a huge boost. She is trade published, but she gave away one book as the author and it just went viral.

Basically, to me it's not just about getting reviews, it's also about getting your book out there in front of potential readers!

You can give away review copies directly, too. Ask on twitter or FB. Make it a restricted amount: 'the first 5 people to reply' and make it clear that you're expecting people to review the book. Works pretty well if you've got followers already.

Old Hack said:

publishers are equal to those found in self-published editions: they're not, and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous and misleading.

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I was not suggesting they were equal, I was suggesting that nothing is going to be perfect. I had to stop reading Danielle Steel's Happy Birthday because she had more run-on sentences in it than my six year old nephew would write. James Patterson books always seem to have "the the" in them somewhere. Most of my books are hardcover from DoubleDay or some other monthly book club, and I expect them to be good.

Yes, I have read some horrible self pubs. The other day I was trying to review one, and of the 400 pages, I stopped at 70. Grammar, punctuation, repetitive words. It drove me crazy. But, I also just read one today in which I found only one error of a missing quote. The writing was amazing, the characters were real to life, and the story flow was impeccable. Honestly, I truly hope that author gets somewhere someday.

It was on another thread, but someone stated that a certain percentage of self pubs weren't worth reading, and it sounded cold. And offensive honestly.

Did Stephen King start out writing perfectly, or on the NYT list? Amazon lets you return books, so if a reader does not like it, they can return it. But a reader wanting to exclude themselves from reading a book just because it is self pub'ed puts him in a situation where he could be missing a special, undiscovered gem.

Literateparakeet said:

About Giveaways, no they aren't obligated, but then no one is unless you pay for a review. I tried Making Connections, and got some requests, but no reviews. I'm not complaining, that's just how it goes.

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My impression of 'Making Connections' is it's a nice idea, but they don't have enough readers on board to make the group function. Few books seem to get enough requests for all the review copies to be taken up. So unless your book already has buzz, I don't think the group is that helpful.

RhodaD'Ettore said:

It was on another thread, but someone stated that a certain percentage of self pubs weren't worth reading, and it sounded cold. And offensive honestly.

Did Stephen King start out writing perfectly, or on the NYT list? Amazon lets you return books, so if a reader does not like it, they can return it. But a reader wanting to exclude themselves from reading a book just because it is self pub'ed puts him in a situation where he could be missing a special, undiscovered gem.

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It may sound cold, but the number of self-published authors who can write competently is a very small percentage of those who publish. Writing and finding readers is not listed anywhere in the Bill of Rights. While it is true that most people who aspire to become an author need practice and polish, it is NOT true that they help themselves by publishing material that is not ready for the eyes of the public. This is not unfair to writers ... it is true for pretty much any profession.

From a LOT of experience and interaction with self-published authors, I can state with a high degree of certainty that the aspiring writers who publish badly written material are NOT the same people who are likely to improve as writers. A lot of that subset have consistently rejected critique or any suggestion that they have more to learn about the skill of writing.

When someone sends me email (thru my Amazon account) and asks me to review their book, I'll generally take a look at the first chapter and send them a critique if it was not ready to publish. The average response (when I get one) does not indicate that the person I critiqued has any clue about basic writing blunders, or any intention to learn about them.

They're all hopeful of writing the next Twilight or Harry Potter or 50 Shades, and completely ignorant that even if they write WELL, their chances of publication and mass attention are low.

I frankly don't understand the desire to mollycoddle incompetent wannabes who can't write, are too lazy to educate themselves to learn to write, never bothered to do the first bit of research about the business of writing, but feel a sense of grand entitlement that everything they write is worthy of notice.

That's not mean. That's just real.

I can walk into any book store, and 9 out of 10 books of fiction I can pick up will not only be well written but something I can enjoy. With self-pubbed titles, it might be 1 out of 1000. Just how much of my time do I want to spend to find that one gem ... which probably isn't any better than the 9 of 10 at the bookstore?

RhodaD'Ettore said:

I was not suggesting they were equal, I was suggesting that nothing is going to be perfect. I had to stop reading Danielle Steel's Happy Birthday because she had more run-on sentences in it than my six year old nephew would write. James Patterson books always seem to have "the the" in them somewhere. Most of my books are hardcover from DoubleDay or some other monthly book club, and I expect them to be good.

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There's more to competent editing than correcting run-on sentences and duplicated words: in fact, I'd rather see those errors than the bigger ones of plot holes and so on.

It was on another thread, but someone stated that a certain percentage of self pubs weren't worth reading, and it sounded cold. And offensive honestly.

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I don't think it's offensive to say if you've noticed a pattern of problems in the books you've read, so long as you're not assuming or fabricating things.

I do think that writers could do with more honesty about the problems with self publishing. There's so much self-publishing evangelism out there: much of it is very misleading. It's worrying.

VRanger said:

I frankly don't understand the desire to mollycoddle incompetent wannabes who can't write, are too lazy to educate themselves to learn to write, never bothered to do the first bit of research about the business of writing, but feel a sense of grand entitlement that everything they write is worthy of notice.

That's not mean. That's just real.

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You might not understand the desire, but while you're at AW you will at least treat your fellow writers with respect.

I hope that's clear.

Now, let's not let this thread get any more off-topic than it already has. We're meant to be talking about how to get self-published books reviewed. Shall we get back to that?

Old Hack said:

You might not understand the desire, but while you're at AW you will at least treat your fellow writers with respect.

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Just tell me which fellow writers at AW I did not treat with respect. I'm unaware of any members here who are not trying to improve their writing.

I don't know if you personally get involved with the legion of people who are trying to self-publish with absolutely no preparation to do so. I have. I know that scene and ignoring that scene doesn't make it go away.

There are myriad people out there right now who don't have a clue about how to write or how to publish and don't think there is anything they need to learn. Those people are not writers and never will be. And those people are not members of this forum. False respect doesn't make a writer. Someone with talent and/or the will to learn makes a writer.

Now, let's not let this thread get any more off-topic than it already has. We're meant to be talking about how to get self-published books reviewed. Shall we get back to that?

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Go back to the top of the thread. I wrote a lengthy and helpful post in response to the original inquiry. Frankly, it's very helpful advice to make sure that aspiring authors know to raise their work to the best possible quality before they seek reviews. It's that whole "cart before the horse" thing. I get several review requests every day from people whose work is not ready for review or publication.

VRanger said:

Just tell me which fellow writers at AW I did not treat with respect. I'm unaware of any members here who are not trying to improve their writing.

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Consider my comment guidance rather than chastisement, VRanger. And perhaps read the Newbie Guide, just to make sure you understand how things are done here.

I don't know if you personally get involved with the legion of people who are trying to self-publish with absolutely no preparation to do so. I have. I know that scene and ignoring that scene doesn't make it go away.

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I am involved with lots of writers. Some are trade published, some are self published. None start out properly prepared. But they all deserve our respect and help, I think.

There are myriad people out there right now who don't have a clue about how to write or how to publish and don't think there is anything they need to learn. Those people are not writers and never will be.

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You're wrong.

Almost all writers start out clueless. They might have a basic talent, but very few start out with a good enough understanding of publishing and how best to proceed. But they do learn. They really do. If they didn't, none of us would be here.

I've worked with writers who started off clueless, and who really turned things around for themselves. Don't dismiss people so easily, or so harshly.

And those people are not members of this forum. False respect doesn't make a writer. Someone with talent and/or the will to learn makes a writer.

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I'm not suggesting we pretend to respect writers here: I expect people here to mean it.

Go back to the top of the thread. I wrote a lengthy and helpful post in response to the original inquiry. Frankly, it's very helpful advice to make sure that aspiring authors know to raise their work to the best possible quality before they seek reviews. It's that whole "cart before the horse" thing.

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Please: don't tell me what to do. This will not go well for you.

I get several review requests every day from people whose work is not ready for review or publication.

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Me too.

I also get submissions from writers who hope to be published; I get requests for editorial advice; I get job offers, from publishers who want me to edit their books, or ghostwrite their books.

None of this gives me the right to be dismissive or rude about writers who are just starting out.

Now. Shall we get back on topic, and start talking about how to get reviews for self published books, or shall I lock this thread?

Old Hack: This will be my last in our discussion of this, so don't lock the thread.

Most writers start out clueless. All writers start out as "would be writers". With rare exception, only the ones who understand they have things to learn will really become authors. I don't think it is dismissive to say that someone who can't write a good sentence and rejects fair critiques is probably not going to make it. I think there is a difference between a potential writer, and someone who wants to be regarded as a writer but actively shuns the education and advice they need to achieve the reality.

One reason that I REALLY like and respect this forum is that by definition, people here think they have something to learn. It's a positive change (MAJOR understatement) from my experience in a place like the Amazon "Meet Our Authors" forum where some of the worst writing you'll ever come across is constantly spammed by people who think it is superb and will never be convinced it isn't. It is those of whom I spoke, and I don't think we really regard them all that differently.

I'm not rude to them, but I'm certainly not going to waste my time on someone like that when there are others who want to learn, and who my advice isn't wasted on.

Just FYI since you kindly recounted your experience, I've been professionally writing, editing, and publishing since 1981 myself.

I apologize for getting out of sorts with the comment I responded to that started this. The comment suggested that if you believe there are self-published works that aren't worth reading, that's offensive. There are indeed self-published works, for sale, that are not worth reading. That isn't offensive, it's true. It is the author's responsibility to produce readable prose. It is not the reader's responsibility to appreciate everything published in any manner, no matter what ... especially if that published product is rife with misspelling and bad grammar (just to start).

ETA: Maybe you should take the last part of this thread and move it somewhere else. I think it is valuable and interesting discussion, but you're correct that it doesn't fit here as an extended conversation.

Uh, back to the original topic...

I've read a lot of books through http://storycartel.com/, which allow people to read free advance copies in exchange for a review. The books are of varying quality writing-wise but I haven't seen huge editing/formatting errors among them. Some of them are pretty good. It's an option you might want to look at.

VRanger said:

ETA: Maybe you should take the last part of this thread and move it somewhere else. I think it is valuable and interesting discussion, but you're correct that it doesn't fit here as an extended conversation.

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I hope this discussion does get moved, because I think it's a valuable one. Writers usually do start out clueless about aspects of writing; and I think we probably do lose a lot of good writers along the way because they don't know how to work through the awkwardness of honest critical response.

This needn't be a trade v self-pubbed thing, though. The sadness is not that some of them might go on to self-pub before they're ready and so waste a good book. It's that more often they'll give up and we'll have lost a good writer.

I'm not going to split the latter discussion out of this thread because the new thread wouldn't start out clearly or in a positive light.

I don't see that we can gain much from pointing out that some people are prepared to learn and some people aren't; it's an obvious thing, I think, and I'm not sure that such a discussion could move forward in a particularly positive way.

You are, of course, free to start such a discussion in an appropriate room if you see value in it but be aware that there is huge potential for such a discussion to go astray, and that AW's One Rule will be strictly enforced, as ever.

Old Hack said:

I'm not going to split the latter discussion out of this thread because the new thread wouldn't start out clearly or in a positive light.

I don't see that we can gain much from pointing out that some people are prepared to learn and some people aren't; it's an obvious thing, I think, and I'm not sure that such a discussion could move forward in a particularly positive way.

You are, of course, free to start such a discussion in an appropriate room if you see value in it but be aware that there is huge potential for such a discussion to go astray, and that AW's One Rule will be strictly enforced, as ever.

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I guess I was thinking more about the fact that some writers are taught and some aren't. As someone who doesn't have much in the way of formal education, I do think its valuable to acknowledge that good writers get lost along the way not because they're not willing to learn, but because they lack the language of learning, or worse, the confidence that they can learn.

I don't see that that would be disrespectful. I think it would be utile and probably salutary in the whole self pubbed v trade pubbed conversation.

But we don't have to do it, if it's going to cause problems.

Hapax Legomenon said:

I've read a lot of books through http://storycartel.com/, which allow people to read free advance copies in exchange for a review. The books are of varying quality writing-wise but I haven't seen huge editing/formatting errors among them. Some of them are pretty good. It's an option you might want to look at.

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Story Cartel seems a little vague on exactly what authors are expected to do. But this blog post suggests you have to offer prizes to reviewers: http://www.indiesunlimited.com/2013/09/19/the-story-cartel-experience/

As I recall you pay $20 in prizes and $10 in fees.

Yeah, people get a chance to win a gift card if they post a review before a certain date. So it does cost some money, hopefully not too much. Keep in mind there may be a significant number of people who trickle in long after that date because they downloaded the book and did not get to reading it for a while.

So far I've joined the ARC/Giveaway group on Goodreads. I made a post and got replies. Sent out 6 copies. It's been a week, and my book is a tad long, so no reviews yet, but I'm hoping that at least 2 of the 6 will post a review.

I also came across this list: http://www.theindieview.com/indie-reviewers/

I've been going through to see which blogs might be a good fit for my book.

There are tons of book blogger sites, but sadly I'm finding that even when you send a request there's no guarantee they will even respond back to you. (they do put that in the disclaimer most times)

Has anyone tried to use this site?
http://bookblogs.ning.com/

When I had a blog for book reviews, I used to go to that site a lot. They allow authors to create accounts. I haven't been there since I stopped blogging- about a year. I know that I generally did not review SP books, but I did review some SP books from authors who were members of that site. I think that because you got to interact with them before offering to review, you could feel more confident that they wouldn't have a fit if you gave them a negative review. I think that the authors who were most successful in getting reviews were ones that didn't just promote their books.

I'm a reviewer (newspaper) who does sometimes review self-published books (local only), and I had an unpleasant interaction with a writer today. (For the record, the author has a small trade publisher.) The interaction brought up a few basic guidelines for soliciting reviews that I'm guessing (and hoping) everyone here already knows extremely well. Nonetheless, maybe there's no harm in restating them.

1. Take no for an answer. If someone acknowledges they don't want to review your book, they may be doing you a favor — i.e., they may know they couldn't give a positive review, and they see no point in writing a harsh critique of a self-published/small-press book. Or the book may not fit their publication's guidelines (that was the case with me today). No amount of arguing about the book's merits will make a difference. Do not cite other critics or personal connections and supposed obligations. Even if they reviewed a past book of yours, they do not have to review this one.

2. Do not send an unsolicited review copy, or allow your publisher to send one, and then demand it back in the absence of a review. Do not offer to pay postage and think that makes it OK. Just please do not do this. We'd prefer that you never ask for a review copy back, but if you must do this, make sure you check before sending that a review is even a possibility.

If you're really reluctant to part with a hardcopy, you could ask the reviewer if he/she will read a PDF or other e-format. The downside to this is that hardcopies hanging around the office provide a physical reminder to read the book. But only if the reviewer was considering reading and reviewing it anyway. (I always have more "acceptable" books than I can review.)

3. If you win an award and attempt to use this as a stick/carrot to get a reluctant reviewer to read your book (which is not a great idea in the first place, see above), be aware that the reviewer will Google the award. In this case, the reviewer discovered that the award had a high entry fee and a long thread in B&BC here.

I can't tell the author this; it would start a longer and even more unpleasant interaction. (The administrators of the award do not respond well to doubts about its legitimacy.) But I think it's worth reminding other writers: Check reputation and credentials before you enter a contest.

Now that I'm done venting — er, reminding — let me just say that I've reviewed self-published books I liked, and others I thought at least had potential. I've interacted with plenty of self-published writers who were polite, professional and just cool people, and who took a "no" gracefully. I think boards like this do a lot to foster that professionalism.

Today, I went through favorable Amazon reviews for two books that are similar to mine (Jurassic Park and The Mist) and found reviewers who listed their email addresses.

I sent a letter to more than a dozen of them asking if they would be willing to write a review of my book. I offered to provide a mobi file upon request. A couple bounced back as dead emails.

I'll let you know if any of them pan out.

Geoff

The efforts I described in the previous post have been successful. My book has received several reviews from those readers, including one that just came in from a reader named C. William Anderson. I am floored by what he wrote.

Geoff, congratulations on the stellar review! Glad to see your work paid off.

Geoff, that was a great review. Congratulations!