Literary vs. genre

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Maxinquaye

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I just read this quote over in the Basic Writing Questions board:

I'm not going to comment on what literary fiction is supposed to be, but in my experience as a reader, literary ficiton is when you're reading something and you're constantly yanked out of the story by the overly fanciful language, whether it's to shake your head and how convoluted the writing is or to read a sentence or two again to enjoy how beautifuly poetic it is.

In either case, this is not my idea of good storytelling.

Again, this is my opinion as a reader. In general, I can't stand literary fiction and won't go anywhere near it. There are exceptions.

I'm sorry for lifting out a particular person, but the attitude annoys me to no end. I love literary fiction. It's the kind of fiction that can make me forget the world around me and have me jump back into the real world at four am in the morning and realize that I've been reading for six hours straight.

I see the same attitude toward genre fiction as well, from literary writers. The high brow literary magazines are full of snobs snorting in derision at genre writers. It annoys me as much. I remember reading books like Wilson Tucker's "The Long loud silence" or Arthur C Clarke's "The City and the Star", or even just "The Star". I felt the same as when I read literary fiction.
 

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I don't get the derision on either side, either. I like them both; it just depends what I'm in the mood for.

I've read examples of each that made me throw the book across the room :D

I'm trying to write genre-literary, btw ;) A literary type tale told in plainer language, with less navel-gazing and a big emphasis on plot. We'll see how that works. You can have my themes when you pry them from my cold, dead hands :D
 

Ruv Draba

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This to-and-fro seems to occur on AW from time to time. I don't think it's fair to critique fiction unless we can at least read and appreciate it. Anyone can say 'I don't like this', but to say 'what's wrong with this' requires a place of understanding and balance. The more extreme views tend to lack that.
 

blackink

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I don't see how a lover of literary fiction can have a different attitude towards genre fiction. When I try to read genre I'm being constantly yanked from the story by atrocious language and by predictable story elements. In my experience, reading genre is like reading stories written on a wall with excrements. You can read them, but it is mightly unpleasant.

I'm not a fan of genre, as whenever I try, I experience the same thing. If there ARE genre novels that don't make you cringe at every second sentence, please let me know, as I'm genuinely interested. I'd love to give it a try.
 

Maxinquaye

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I don't see how a lover of literary fiction can have a different attitude towards genre fiction. When I try to read genre I'm being constantly yanked from the story by atrocious language and by predictable story elements. In my experience, reading genre is like reading stories written on a wall with excrements. You can read them, but it is mightly unpleasant.

I'm not a fan of genre, as whenever I try, I experience the same thing. If there ARE genre novels that don't make you cringe at every second sentence, please let me know, as I'm genuinely interested. I'd love to give it a try.

Simple. You are not the center of the universe. Your tastes are not the universal standard upon which everything else must compare. That's why a "lover of literary fiction" can have a different attitude than what the quote said, and what you now say.

I would instead suggest that you have not read genre fiction very widely.
 

goddessofthehunt

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I read more genre fiction myself, but I'm not averse to literary fiction. It's not really my cup of tea, so to speak, but I'm not going to avoid a decent-sounding book because it's packaged as 'literary'. Admittedly, I don't read a lot of it as I like my fantasy :)
 

blackink

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Simple. You are not the center of the universe. Your tastes are not the universal standard upon which everything else must compare. That's why a "lover of literary fiction" can have a different attitude than what the quote said, and what you now say.

I would instead suggest that you have not read genre fiction very widely.

Of course I'm not the center of the universe. And yet I simply can't grasp how those who appreciate literary, can stand the poor writing of genre.

I really want to know, no snark. If you love literary AND genre, does this mean you don't find the genre writing atrocious, or you don't care and read for something ese?

I haven't read genre widely at all, and I'm very open to reading more. So is there such thing as high / higher quality genre? I do want to know and try.

I'm not a literary snob "just because"--this just happened, after many unfortunate expriences.
 

backslashbaby

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If you haven't read much genre at all, yet you make a point to say things like "the poor writing of genre," the discussion has ended before it began, imho.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I'm not a fan of genre, as whenever I try, I experience the same thing. If there ARE genre novels that don't make you cringe at every second sentence, please let me know, as I'm genuinely interested. I'd love to give it a try.

If you have any taste, almost all genre novels are this way. I'd be willing to bet that at least 90% of the classic literary novels and short stories you like were first published as genre novels.

Your snobbishness is just a lack of taste, it's also a lack of knowledge.
 

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I really want to know, no snark. If you love literary AND genre, does this mean you don't find the genre writing atrocious, or you don't care and read for something ese?

I enjoy both for the same reason I enjoy both fine dining and "lowbrow" food. There are great (and bad) examples of both, and there's always something to fit my mood. But then I'm an omnivore in most areas of my life.
 

Chris P

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Different tools for different jobs, IMO.

Sometimes I like to be enlightened, to have my perspective broadened and to experience life in the shoes of someone else. The books and stories that have changed my life are literary.

Sometimes I want to be entertained. I want my curiosity to be tickled by a tricky whodunnit, laugh at a madcap comedy or be amused by a light romance.

If the world were perfect I could have both desires satisfied simultaneously by every single thing I read. But the world isn't perfect.
 

blackink

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I enjoy both for the same reason I enjoy both fine dining and "lowbrow" food. There are great (and bad) examples of both, and there's always something to fit my mood. But then I'm an omnivore in most areas of my life.

I see this. And if I had more time, I'd be willing to sampe more from new diners, so to speak. But when I have 3 kids and my own writing projects, I barely have any time to write and read what I really want to read--fiction that I admire and that inspires me.

This is why I keep asking about good genre, and no one can tell me what to try.

And now, literary fiction that I like was never marketed as genre. Maybe you are talking about the classics. I'm talking about contemporary literary.
 

blackink

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Different tools for different jobs, IMO.

Sometimes I like to be enlightened, to have my perspective broadened and to experience life in the shoes of someone else. The books and stories that have changed my life are literary.

Sometimes I want to be entertained. I want my curiosity to be tickled by a tricky whodunnit, laugh at a madcap comedy or be amused by a light romance.

If the world were perfect I could have both desires satisfied simultaneously by every single thing I read. But the world isn't perfect.

Tickled by tricky whodunnit, yes, I get this! The only genre that I can enjoy, is detective stories, but I only read maybe 5-6. I guess if I had more time, I would've read more genre. Maybe that's the bottom line--not enough time to read both.
 

gothicangel

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Yeah I love crime fiction. The best in the crime genre are the ones that teeter on the literary like Ian Rankin, David Peace, Henning Mankell and James Ellroy. There's a few recommendations! :D

There is no bad genre writing, there is just bad writing in a genre. I hated The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo and yes poorly executed techniques yanked me out. I tried reading Wolf Hall and the same thing happened - and that is literary fiction.

Back to the OP. I find opinions like this disappointing. They don't realise what they are missing and the limitations they are placing on writing skills. My writing skills didn't really start to improve until I was intrduced to Angela Carter and Ernest Hemingway.
 

gothicangel

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I'm trying to write genre-literary, btw ;) A literary type tale told in plainer language, with less navel-gazing and a big emphasis on plot. We'll see how that works. You can have my themes when you pry them from my cold, dead hands :D

Try really pared down to the bones language. I also love fragmented sentences too. You'll need a substantial emphasis on character too. That is what normally kills genre fiction for me.
 

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Yeah I love crime fiction. The best in the crime genre are the ones that teeter on the literary like Ian Rankin, David Peace, Henning Mankell and James Ellroy. There's a few recommendations! :D

.

Thank you! :)
 

AlekT

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Call it literary, contemporary, modern, or whatever fiction, I would define it as any fiction that doesn't necessarily follow a genre format. Having said that, there are literary novels that fall into genres such as mystery. My wife and I owned a local independent bookshop for many years, so-called literary fiction being our main seller. Hard to put a handle on, one knows it when they read it. One example for me would be anything by Richard Russo.
 

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I think that a lot of people have been prejudiced against literary fiction because they believe it is about "fancy language." I tend to think that lit fiction is nearly like genre fiction except that it delivers "more." There are numerous "levels" that are not really gone into to a great degree in genre writing. Another aspect, is that it deals with people, or the clash of people, and not necessarily things covered by genres, of course, many good examples have been stated. So there are various bits and pieces of genre fiction within literary books. You can have your spy novels, your mysteries, your romances but they all "have deeper levels."

A person setting out to write literary-- who writes a story about "some guy getting up and going to work" and writing it poorly is not writing literary fiction. I get mad at people who think that lit is only "writing about nothing." You still need a story with all the regular story parts.
 

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I really don't read straight genre stories either. For me at least, it's the predictability of the story that disappoints more often than the subquality writing. Though for some people who enjoy genre stories, it's that predictability that they're looking for. In romance, for example, the reader wants to know that they're going to get that happy ending. Me, I like to be surprised.

This is why I keep asking about good genre, and no one can tell me what to try.

Maybe good genre is hard to pinpoint, because when a writer is very good, they're often just shelved with the mainstream/literary fiction? It's easy to forget it's a horror or sci-fi story (Stephen King, for example - and maybe Margaret Atwood or Chuck Palaniuk?).

I think that a lot of people have been prejudiced against literary fiction because they believe it is about "fancy language." I tend to think that lit fiction is nearly like genre fiction except that it delivers "more." There are numerous "levels" that are not really gone into to a great degree in genre writing. Another aspect, is that it deals with people, or the clash of people, and not necessarily things covered by genres, of course, many good examples have been stated. So there are various bits and pieces of genre fiction within literary books. You can have your spy novels, your mysteries, your romances but they all "have deeper levels."

A person setting out to write literary-- who writes a story about "some guy getting up and going to work" and writing it poorly is not writing literary fiction. I get mad at people who think that lit is only "writing about nothing." You still need a story with all the regular story parts.

Yes, agreed on all counts!
 

wrangler

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i've learned how to read almost every genre, although I do prefer literary fiction and many of the classics.
 

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Chocolate ice cream is the MOST DELICIOUSEST of all the ice creams. Anyone who likes the bland plainness of vanilla is TOTALLY CRAZYPANTS. Vanilla is the last refuge of the TASTELESS. And those people who like both, my goodness, THEY ARE THE WORSTEST OF US ALL.
 

dgrintalis

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I like to read books that pull me into their world, that make me want to reread them again and again. I've read books like this in both 'genre' and 'literary' fiction. I really hate this piss and moan match that always creeps up about what is better. A good book is a good book, regardless of its category, IMO.
 

kaitiepaige17

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Am I wrong, or aren't there more genre novels out there than literary? I don't read literary so I don't know the market, but it seems like there would be more genre writers than literary?
 

wrangler

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Chocolate ice cream is the MOST DELICIOUSEST of all the ice creams. Anyone who likes the bland plainness of vanilla is TOTALLY CRAZYPANTS. Vanilla is the last refuge of the TASTELESS. And those people who like both, my goodness, THEY ARE THE WORSTEST OF US ALL.
I'm partial to Rocky Road...so there!
 

DoomBunny

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Call it literary, contemporary, modern, or whatever fiction, I would define it as any fiction that doesn't necessarily follow a genre format. Having said that, there are literary novels that fall into genres such as mystery. My wife and I owned a local independent bookshop for many years, so-called literary fiction being our main seller. Hard to put a handle on, one knows it when they read it. One example for me would be anything by Richard Russo.

Here here. The suggestion that genre fiction is universally lowbrow, predictable, thematically lacking or containing poor or simple writing and shallow characters is just as ignorant as suggesting that all literary fiction is boring, snotty, stuffy and verbose. Both opinions are as ridiculous as assuming that one is better or more tasteful than the other. Watching both sides accuse the other of lacking in theme makes me giggle like a schoolgirl.

I'm especially surprised by the suggestion that entertainment and enlightenment must be separate, and that entertainment is somehow less significant. Most of what I read does both, if not in equal amounts. And it's often the most entertaining books that teach me the most - or maybe it's just that I find learning entertaining?

I'm more than a little offended that here in Australia someone like Bryce Courteney need only raise his hand when he wants publicity, whereas we have a surfiet of oustanding genre authors (look at all the fantasy chicklit!) that can't get a look-in with the mainstream press. Given genre is just a concept foisted upon us by marketing people trying to keep the shelves neat I think it's a silly basis on which to judge a book. If you find yourself looking down upon any type of fiction, my suggestion is to stop buying your books in grocery stores. :p

As for recommendations, Iain M. Banks is wildly successful in both sci-fi and literary fiction. The ratio of entertainment to enlightement tends to veer back and forth through both his SF and his lit, but I've never read a book of his I wouldn't recommend regardless of your preferred genre (or lack thereof). I would also have trouble classifying Neal Stephenson's Baroque trilogy (historical-esque although he calls it sci-fi) and love it all the same.
 
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