I don't know how this happened, but ...

Jwriter

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I'm getting rolling with freelancing again after having been let go from my journalism job after 10 years. Today, I met with the director of a community service organization who wants me to write an anniversary book about the evolution of his organization.

We haven't got a contract or anything, in fact our first meeting was just today but he wants me to come back tomorrow to show me a book he wants to model HIS book after and ... HOLY CRAP.

So I do need advice. I'm going to have to write this guy a proposal and I'm going to need to do it soon. Has anyone ever done a project like this? How do I figure out a price for a project like this?
 

Angie

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It's really hard to say without knowing the scope of the project. I'd try to get more information from him -- how long is he expecting this book to be? Does he have all of the research available? Does he have an outline in mind? And most importantly, what is his budget for this project?

I can tell you from bitter experience that book projects for clients are a PITA. If he doesn't seem to know EXACTLY what he wants or have a solid plan in place for getting it done, RUN. It will turn into a nightmare of epic proportions. And if he answers the budget question with "Oh, around $500 or so," that is WAY too low. I recently did a book re-slant project, which basically just consisted of updating a few portions of the book for a different audience, and charged $3500 for that. To write from scratch? It's worth a big chunk of change.
 

T Robinson

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The devil is in the details

You will not make as much as it is worth, in all probability.

Contract is essential. Draw it up and see if he fusses. Know what is negotiable and what is not.

Some points to consider.

Who owns the rights, including right to show excerpts as examples of your work?
Are you expected to do the complete project, including layout, any pictures, negotiating with a printer, press runs, hardback, paperback, soft cover, dimensions of the finished work? Advertising included? Some do to defray costs.

You have to know what he expects and wants before you can even begin to set a price. Don't make any preliminary offers till you know exactly what he expects.

Target market? How many copies does he expect to produce? Is it a giveaway that the organization will eat the cost? Unlikely, but you need to know.

Deadlines, penalty clauses, payment schedules? Is he thinking the anniversary is in June of this year and you will be done by then with a complete, printed book?

Your mantra should be: Good, Cheap, Fast....pick any two. Think about it.

There should be several discussions here about contracts and or/projects. Check them out.

Main point, I get the impression you're worried about giving him a price quote tomorrow. Don't. Don't. Don't.

You have (or have not given here) nowhere close to what you need to know to quote a price. Get the information you need from him and tell him you will crunch the numbers for what he wants within 24/48 hours.

Do make an itemized breakdown of what he wants and calculate what it would cost you.

Do not give it to him.
You will be nitpicked to death.

If you continue freelancing, you will have several "template" contracts to draw from.

Make sure you calculate cost to you and some profit. My next suggestion is add a percentage to that so you will have negotiating room. (Some may disagree with this, but you are the one that will have to do the work. There are always surprises.)

This is just a brief review, others will add other concerns, just don't try to set a price under pressure without full information on expectations. If you ignore everything else, remember that. HTH
 
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T Robinson

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Double ditto on what Angie said while I was typing my epistle.
 

WeaselFire

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I did one years ago and here's pretty much how the negotiation went:

Me: "This will take me about 300 hours to write, edit and prepare for your printer. At $9 an hour (Did I say it was a LONG time ago?), that's $2,500."

Him: "That's $2,700, you need to work on your math."

Me: "Okay, $2,700. I'm a writer, not a math whiz."

Him: "I have a budget of $250."

Me: "Okay, $250 it is."

Yeah, I made about 17% of minimum wage on that deal. But my rent was $125 a month (It really was a LONG, LONG time ago...) and I cranked it out in a month and my landlady was happy for a change. Plus I took a girl out to a fancy dinner to impress her.

PS: The girl decided I wasn't impressive enough and found someone else. But people were pleased with the book, even if my name wasn't anywhere in it. :)

Jeff
 
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Jwriter

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OK, good. Thank you so much -- this is really helpful advice. I'm not going to try to give a proposal today since I don't know exactly what he has in mind. In my case, even if I end up underpaid I feel willing to give it a try because I'm just getting rolling again and the exposure would be good for me. He does have a lot of the research but it will also entail a number of interviews, which I'm good at but they are time consuming. So you've all given me a lot to think about. Thank you VERY much!
 

Jwriter

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So I wanted to post an update.

The guy has a pretty big budget in mind -- in the $25k range -- which I think includes all the research, writing and coordinating of the whole thing (that's what he wants me for), plus layout, photography and printing.

I'm to go back with a proposal on April 15, which will include a chapter outline, my ideas on what it should include, a complete crazy guess on how many interviews I'll need to do and how much time that might take and more complete crazy guesses on graphics and printing. I'll have to include a proposal on what I want to be paid for all that, plus an invoice on how much I should get for doing the research in the event they pass on my proposal.

I have some ideas, but ... oy vey. This is so far over my head I just don't know what to do. Well, I guess I have some ideas, but ... woof.
 

Angie

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Whatever else happens, DO NOT WORK WITHOUT A CONTRACT. Also, make sure you get 50% up front and clearly define which milestones will result in further payments. This sounds like it's going to be a huge, drawn-out project, and you do not want to go broke waiting for it to be approved before you can get paid. Make it clear you don't write a word until the deposit is paid.
 

Jwriter

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Well, I'm putting together my 15-page proposal for the book project, and I'll meet with the guy tomorrow to go over it. This has been really hard -- not the proposal part, because there's a lot of great info and sample online for that. The hard part has been trying to set a price and reason out how much I should charge for all the various jobs this project includes. I've not been in a position to set a fee in a very long time, and I was never very confident or good at it, so I'm really trying to be fair and firm this time. It's a huge project! I won't be able to do other things while I'm working on this, so the pay has to match the commitment ... ugh.

Please wish me luck.