How much editing does an editor do?

msd

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I know that there is much said about the role of a book editor. I also know that there are different types of editing services available. I also did a lot of research on the subject. But I still can't find a satisfying answer for my particular concern. So I thought I would ask it here.

I am 30 percent into the rewrite stage of my very first novel. I am very happy and satisfied with the progress so far. However, I am a poor editor. For example, I struggle with where to put commas and periods in dialogue. After I finished with a chapter, I read it aloud to see if it sounds right. Sometimes I struggle in trying to make it sound natural. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I have faith in my plot, characters, settings and so forth, but I lack the professional finishing touch especially in my dialogue. It doesn't help that I'm not writing in my native tongue.

So my question is just how much editing does an editor do. Does she rewrite what is obviously poorly written, or does she simply note the problem and I have to rewrite it myself. In other words, will she give me back a finished document or will she highlight a bunch of mistakes that I need to correct? The way I see it is if I failed to do it right the first time, I can’t see how I will do it better the second time.

If there are different names given to different types of editing, what do you call an editor that finishes the book for you?
 

Jo Zebedee

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Depends what you want. Some do developmental overviews and general advice, some line edit, some copy edit, and prices will vary according to what you want. I had a developmental edit for my first book from author and editor Teresa Edgerton (who is now editing the trilogy for my publisher, and I'm delighted to work with her again) and a story and line edit for my second by JSMaryat, who was setting up and did both for a competitive price. I knew him well from another site and the edit was also excellent - and that book got me an agent. :)

Neither cost me anywhere close to $1000, btw.
 
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Maryn

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My experience--and I'm not nearly as published as many here--is that an editor working on content notes problems and may suggest solutions to the big picture elements of your story, such as plot holes and character development.

No editor rewrites your text beyond simple word substitution, i.e., replacing an incorrect now with the not you obviously intended. It's not their job, nor is it their place, to rewrite an awkward sentence or wordy paragraph. Their job is to bring it to your attention for your correction.

It's got to be doubly exasperating to be writing in a language other than your native tongue, but you will do yourself a great service if you take the time to learn the basic rules on commas, punctuating dialogue, and whatever else is particularly problematic. They're simple rules; kids of eight and nine learn them easily.

But it will not be instant and will possibly be boring. I'd rather take the time and learn to do it right myself than pay someone to edit every single book before I dared submit it, though.

Most basic grammar questions are well covered by Purdue OWL, a website for its online writing lab. You can also get yourself a grammar and usage book and go through it slowly, one topic at a time, until you know it cold. I like an out-of-date but recent edition of the St. Martin's Handbook. (Current edition is expensive, the one it replaced suddenly cheap.)

Your beta readers will also note any mistakes they see, but by the time you use betas, you should be presenting them with a very clean manuscript free of errors.

Maryn, not perfect herself (No!)
 

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Paying someone to edit your work costs a LOT. Like over $100.
The kind you are speaking of (mostly) is copy editing/proofreading.

As the user above me suggested, get a grammar and punctuation book. I read Strunk and White.
 
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Literateparakeet

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Sometimes I struggle in trying to make it sound natural. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I have faith in my plot, characters, settings and so forth, but I lack the professional finishing touch especially in my dialogue.

The best help I have seen with dialogue is Self-editing for Writers by Browne and King. I learned so much from that book and highly recommend it.

About editing...my editors fix commas, and mostly point out where the writing needs work, rarely they would suggest a particular wording.

If you get a trade publisher, they will take care of the editing...but you need to have it edited the best you can in order to get a trade publisher.

If you self-publish, I recommend you pay someone to edit your book. The more editing you need the more expensive that will be.

So either way, it's best to do as much editing as you can on your own.

Neither cost me anywhere close to $1000, btw.

You mean it cost you a lot more? :) I don't think that is what you meant, but to edit a full book is about $1000 or more depending on who you choose. I'm basing this opinion on quotes from various editors (that's a generic rate, not based on my book specifically.)
 
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Old Hack

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I know that there is much said about the role of a book editor. I also know that there are different types of editing services available. I also did a lot of research on the subject. But I still can't find a satisfying answer for my particular concern. So I thought I would ask it here.

I am 30 percent into the rewrite stage of my very first novel. I am very happy and satisfied with the progress so far. However, I am a poor editor. For example, I struggle with where to put commas and periods in dialogue. After I finished with a chapter, I read it aloud to see if it sounds right. Sometimes I struggle in trying to make it sound natural. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I have faith in my plot, characters, settings and so forth, but I lack the professional finishing touch especially in my dialogue. It doesn't help that I'm not writing in my native tongue.

So my question is just how much editing does an editor do. Does she rewrite what is obviously poorly written, or does she simply note the problem and I have to rewrite it myself. In other words, will she give me back a finished document or will she highlight a bunch of mistakes that I need to correct? The way I see it is if I failed to do it right the first time, I can’t see how I will do it better the second time.

Editors tend to deal with the bigger things: they identify plot holes, poor characterisation, structural issues, for example, and point them out to the author. They will sometimes suggest fixes for these problems but they don't rewrite the text to resolve them: that's up to the author.

They will often highlight problems with punctuation, grammar and spelling as they work, but again, it's up to the author to correct these mistakes.

In trade publishing, an editor will often make four or five passes through a book to get it right, with the author responding to the editor's notes and making the fixes required each time.

Once the book has been edited it will be passed onto a copy editor who will check the smaller things like punctuation, grammar, spelling, and will also ensure that the facts are straight: was that model of car available in 1973? was the summer of 1977 as hot as the summer of 1976? That sort of thing. Copy editors do mark in corrections to the problems they spot, which can resolve the problem; but sometimes a portion of the book (or even several of them) will need to be rewritten in order to accommodate the copy editor's corrections and yep, it's up to the author to do this rewriting.

The author gets to approve or reject all changes proposed by the copy editor.

If there are different names given to different types of editing, what do you call an editor that finishes the book for you?

A ghost-writer.

If you get a trade publisher, they will take care of the editing...but you need to have it edited the best you can in order to get a trade publisher.

I don't think writers need to get their books edited by anyone else before they submit them to trade publishers. As an editor I'd rather know what the writer's capable of alone than see what someone else has made of their work.

You mean it cost you a lot more? :) I don't think that is what you meant, but to edit a full book is about $1000 or more depending on who you choose. I'm basing this opinion on quotes from various editors (that's a generic rate, not based on my book specifically.)

I wouldn't edit a book for as little as $1,000, and I don't know any good editors who would. But times are hard and people do what they have to do. If you're offered editing for less than that, beware.
 

KTC

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Paying someone to edit your work costs a LOT. Like over $100.
The kind you are speaking of (mostly) is copy editing/proofreading.

As the user above me suggested, get a grammar and punctuation book. I read Strunk and White.

The last one I edited was a freebie...I did it for a Make a Wish charity. I got a tax deduction receipt for $800.00 and that was WAY low.
 

KTC

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Asking how much editing does an editor do is kind of like asking how many licks does it take to get to the centre of a Tootsie Pop. Or how many drops are there in the ocean.

If a book is accepted for publication, there are in-house editors. And they do exactly as much editing as is needed. There's no math to figure out something like this. If you hire an editor, they will do the same...the editing that is needed.
 

Siri Kirpal

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It sounds like you need a copy editor, who will work on those punctuation issues. As stated, they aren't cheap.

However, Old Hack, I did have one highly professional editor for my Sikhism book, who only charged $1000. That was in 2007, my copy was clean, and I primarily needed him to get my proposal in order.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

nkkingston

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The Society of Editing and Proofreading in the UK suggests you should expect to pay a minimum of £22 an hour for proofreading and £26 an hour for copyediting, more if your needs are extensive. If you're really worried about your grammar and phrasing, you're going to be spending a lot. You'll learn a lot as you go, though, which helps - your next book won't need as much work.
 

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I am an editor for a publishing house (nonfiction) and I also do freelance editing on the side (fiction). For the publishing house, we are doing less and less of the old-style editing where we send back queries to the author (AQs) about things, and more and more proofreading, conforming to style, and slotting in the appropriate subheads and illustrations (i.e. making sure that if it's Table 12, there is a table 11, and it comes earlier than Table 12). It's hard to believe but there are authors who have Chapter 9 and the next chapter is Chapter 11 so, did they misnumber, or did they forget to put a whole chapter in?

More and more, we are directed to just do the minimum. If a cursory glance at the ms. indicates that it needs more work, sometimes we can get that through, but it's usually something like, "Okay, we can authorize 15 hours"--for a 500-page ms.

All these edits go back to the author to fix, disagree with, add, and make any other changes they see. Authors have a limit on how much they can change before it gets charged back against their royalties (it's 10%).

Then it comes back to the production editor for a final polish. This is usually fast. If we see that the author has introduced a lot of new text, we may send it back for AQs again, but usually not. This is to check to make sure it all hangs together, has page numbers, has all the front matter and back matter. In most cases, this is the last thing before it goes into production. There may be a final proof sent to the author if it's in the author's contract to do that, otherwise the production editors will go over it one more time, page by page, but at this point we're not really looking at grammar, or even at words, but at the general layout (checking for short pages, making sure each new chapter starts on an odd page, or at least a new page, make sure headings aren't orphaned at the bottom of the page and that kind of thing).

This is also pretty much how the publisher did it when I published my fiction. First my editor went over it and sent me a revision letter, although in my case she didn't make a lot of changes (possibly my ms. was in good shape since I work as an editor; anyway I like to think so). Then I got it after the copyeditor had a shot at it (still not too many changes, but more than I'd expected--I was very lucky to get really excellent copy editors there), and then I got bound galleys as a page proof. And at the page proof I was only supposed to change any actual typos I found, but in fact, with the first one, I had to change a couple of other things (long story).

So, short version: The acquiring editor will be reading for one thing. The production editor will be reading for other things. The copyeditor will be very detailed and nit-picky and will change Wal-Mart to Walmart and will tell you that "blue-colored" is redundant. (She also wanted to change "up shit creek" to "up shit's creek" but I stetted that one because the former is how I always hear it. Maybe people say it differently in the east). I don't know if there was actually a person whose title was "proofreader" involved, but we all kind of proofed it during each stage.

If you hire an editor you can specify the level you want. Development, looking at plot elements, looking for pace and narrative drive, looking for bad grammar or awkward sentence construction, or just picking up misspelled words. You can also specify things to leave alone, for instance, "Don't change one word of the dialog," or specify things to look for, e.g., "Tell me if you think my various characters all sound the same."
 

nkkingston

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It's hard to believe but there are authors who have Chapter 9 and the next chapter is Chapter 11 so, did they misnumber, or did they forget to put a whole chapter in?

I can believe it :) I'm terrible at numbering. I'll have 1 2 3 4 5 5 8 9 9 11, quite easily, usually switching between "1" "chapter 2" and "chapter three" at the same time. I just can't hold the numbers in my head while proofreading!
 

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It's hard to believe but there are authors who have Chapter 9 and the next chapter is Chapter 11 so, did they misnumber, or did they forget to put a whole chapter in?

I use WORD for my writing, and mostly the automation works well. But once in a while, WORD gets confused, and either chapter numbers or page numbers (or both) get a bad case of gremlins.

I sent a version out to a beta once, then realized my footers were all banjaxed. Had to do a quick fix and re-send.
 

gingerwoman

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Paying someone to edit your work costs a LOT. Like over $100.
The kind you are speaking of (mostly) is copy editing/proofreading.

As the user above me suggested, get a grammar and punctuation book. I read Strunk and White.
More like $500, or more up front by a professional editor, for a full length novel, from what I know. It's why I have not tried self publishing at all as yet.

An editor will point out problems and leave them to you to fix in your own way, so that it is still your work. For example mine found places where I'd repeated myself and suggested I cut them, and found a few places that leaned towards "telling", and suggested I figure out a way to make them come more alive. ("showing")
 
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Rechan

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You can also find a lot of grammar and punctuation help on the internet, no need to invest in books.

For instance, here's an excellent entry on dialogue punctuation. (However, it misses one example. "He loved you." A sob shook her body before she looked up. "That doesn't matter to you, does it." - Dialogue broken into sentences, but without any said tags.)

My favorite editing book is "Editing for Fiction Writers" by Browne and King. However, this is more about content than copy editing.

What you might try is "Edit-Proof Your Writing" by Don McNair.
 
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