Let's talk hair!

ap123 · Feb 16, 2015

Putputt said:
Ap123 - Are you referring to horse shampoo? I tried that and haven't really noticed much difference, although everyone I know who's tried it swears by it now.

The product recommended for me? No, it isn't shampoo, it's a product applied by the hairdresser, coats the hair, I think it's supposed to last about 8 weeks.

Lillith1991 · Feb 16, 2015

Putputt said:
Hmm, it might be genetics, because my mom's hair has thinned a lot over the years. She gets treatment for it now though, so it's grown more again. I wash my hair every other day. That's the longest I can go without shampooing it before the scalp gets too greasy for me to bear. I only shampoo the scalp though, not the entire length of the hair. I condition the ends and after rinsing, I put coconut oil on the ends. It hasn't really helped with the split ends. :-/ I will try what you said about tying the ends to help with the friction. That does make sense.

I've never heard of the Black hair doesn't grow thing. Weird that there's even that misconception. Of course it grows, how else would it get long??

Ap123 - Are you referring to horse shampoo? I tried that and haven't really noticed much difference, although everyone I know who's tried it swears by it now.

What are you using for shampoo and conditioner? My hair hates silicones and sulfates so I just don't use them. I've found that sulfate/silicone free shampoos and conditioners are what my hair likes best. Maybe your hair thinks like mine?

ap123 said:
Someone told me recently about a product that's kind of like hair dye without the color, adds shine and weighs it down to minimize frizz--has anyone tried this?

Is it prepared or a powder? Because I hear cassia is good for weighing hair down, and it doesn't show color unless your hair is white-blonde.

Rachel77 · Feb 16, 2015

*shuffles shyly into thread*

I have frizzy, curly hair -- the kind that tends to get associated with a Jewish heritage, or at least it did when I was growing up in the South. And yes, I'm Jewish, and I was teased horribly about my hair when I was young.

It's long enough that I pull it back into a ponytail when it's curly; it's immune to most techniques for "nice-looking curls" that I've read/had suggested to me by hairdressers. ("Don't brush it every day!" Have to, or it mats. "Use one of those pick-combs instead of a brush!" Can't use one of those, because it'll mat. "Try this product to weigh it down!" Have tried; would have to use half a bottle a day, which...no.) These days, I generally iron it straight if I'm planning to wear it down.

Lillith1991 · Feb 16, 2015

Rachel77 said:
*shuffles shyly into thread*

I have frizzy, curly hair -- the kind that tends to get associated with a Jewish heritage, or at least it did when I was growing up in the South. And yes, I'm Jewish, and I was teased horribly about my hair when I was young.

It's long enough that I pull it back into a ponytail when it's curly; it's immune to most techniques for "nice-looking curls" that I've read/had suggested to me by hairdressers. ("Don't brush it every day!" Have to, or it mats. "Use one of those pick-combs instead of a brush!" Can't use one of those, because it'll mat. "Try this product to weigh it down!" Have tried; would have to use half a bottle a day, which...no.) These days, I generally iron it straight if I'm planning to wear it down.

Have you ever considered it may be the products you're using that are making it mat? Or maybe it's your strand thickness and density that's an issue? Also, some just have to cleanse and style daily in order to get the results they want. There's nothing wrong with that. I had to when my hair was really short. As it got longer, the weight made some of the tangles that came from it twirling around each other diminish. My Jewish grandmothers hair was similar in the way it demanded to be cared for compared to mine, only difference is mine is kinky-curly and hers wasn't.

Chris P · Feb 16, 2015

ap123 said:
It also makes a difference when getting your hair done that the hairdresser have experience with your type of hair texture. My hair is neither straight nor curly, one big frizz bomb. I once let a friend talk me into going to her hairdresser, Chinese man in Chinatown, all Asian customers. Took him hours to blow and straighten my hair. The Dominican ladies up the street can have my hair done in under 15 minutes.

Another cute daughter story tangentially related to hair: When she graduated high school, she wanted to go to beauty school. She was all excited that there was a Paul Mitchell school in Memphis. If you have a certificate from there, you can do the $200 haircuts.

"But I won't go there," she later decided. "They don't teach you how to do Black hair."

I was all proud of my colorblind, ready-to-stick-up-for-what's-right little girl and pass up a prestigious education credential.

"I live in Mississippi!" she said. "That's half my business gone!"

Well, okay, my entrepreneurial little girl.

backslashbaby · Feb 16, 2015

Rachel77 said:
*shuffles shyly into thread*

I have frizzy, curly hair -- the kind that tends to get associated with a Jewish heritage, or at least it did when I was growing up in the South. And yes, I'm Jewish, and I was teased horribly about my hair when I was young.

It's long enough that I pull it back into a ponytail when it's curly; it's immune to most techniques for "nice-looking curls" that I've read/had suggested to me by hairdressers. ("Don't brush it every day!" Have to, or it mats. "Use one of those pick-combs instead of a brush!" Can't use one of those, because it'll mat. "Try this product to weigh it down!" Have tried; would have to use half a bottle a day, which...no.) These days, I generally iron it straight if I'm planning to wear it down.

You might want to try Black products! My hairdressers (Black and white) see my white skin and never suggest what works best, unless they just cover it with silicone and take a flat iron to it. That looks nice for a few hours, but it doesn't help in reality with our humidity here, lol. I use several products, but start with Pantene's shampoo and conditioners for relaxed hair or Black-natural (in the brown bottles).

That ties in to this question:

Chris P said:
I've often wondered what is the actual difference in Black hair care products. The cynic in me thinks it's mostly marketing, but different hair physiologies probably need products to make it do things other types of hair don't need it to. The manufacturers are responding to a market need after all, although all manufacturers would like to create their own market need.

My (WASP) daughter and I were shopping for hair products one day. She picked up one and I pointed out the text on the can "for women of color." She grabbed her raspberry-tinted locks and said "Hell-OOO! Color!"

'White' curly hair still doesn't usually have the same texture as Black (or Jewish?) curly hair, so the Black products have a lot more conditioners in them. On 'white' hair, it weights them down too much or they can even look greasy. Curly and greasy is not a good look, so 'white' curly products are just lighter.

If your hair is thick enough and dry (no grease problems) enough to need more oils, the 'white' products take the whole bottle at best

There were/are some 'white' products that involve a lot of hold (like hairspray hold) that can look good, but they feel awful to the touch.

With 'Black' products I can have curls (or straight locks) that feel good, too. But your hair has to take in the conditioners or it'll look greasy and silly

Does anyone else with hair like that find that their hair naturally straightens after a day or two, btw? I end up curly (natural)-to-wavy (if twisted) after a wash and then have traditional NDN-looking hair the next days with no flat iron. If I did go with a long fro, it would turn native by the end of the week :ROFL:

Sam Argent · Feb 16, 2015

I wear my hair relaxed because I like it long, and in my case, wearing it natural only leaves me with bald patches. Hair breaks off usually because you're not taking care of it, which I am not capable of doing daily with a bad back, wrists, and elbows. It's weird. My hair without relaxer is kinky, but the curls aren't super tight and still mat like a mofo no matter what product I used. This led to a string of hairstyles and beauty shops when I was a kid to find a way to stop my hair from breaking. Braids were my first attempt, and I loved them. Unfortunately, they take a full friggin work shift to put in my hair and having them put in was like a thousand purple nurples on my scalp. Next was the s-curl that while wasn't a lot of maintenance, I became known as the Black Curly Sue at school. Then there was the close cut that I loathed. I know there were other styles, but relaxing my hair came last.

This is why I'm kind of bothered by people who assume that whenever they see straightened hair, it's because that person is ashamed of having a natural hair style. I'm not saying that about anyone in this thread, but it's something that I hear a lot. I've seen the discrimination against natural hair in media and the dumb school dress codes that place unfair hair restrictions on PoC, so I do understand the pride that comes with choosing personal hair styles. It's just feels like something else that other people don't consider health restrictions and think daily hair regiments are the easiest things in the world.

Rachel77 · Feb 16, 2015

Lillith1991 said:
Have you ever considered it may be the products you're using that are making it mat?

Leave-in hair conditioner is really all I use these days. It's always been like this, regardless of what products I've tried.

Lillith1991 said:
Or maybe it's your strand thickness and density that's an issue? Also, some just have to cleanse and style daily in order to get the results they want. There's nothing wrong with that. I had to when my hair was really short. As it got longer, the weight made some of the tangles that came from it twirling around each other diminish. My Jewish grandmothers hair was similar in the way it demanded to be cared for compared to mine, only difference is mine is kinky-curly and hers wasn't.

My hair is fairly thick, and the strands themselves are very light, so it's generally cloud-like. I think that's why it mats so easily; it's so light that it's hard to keep the strands from twirling around each other, and once I've slept on it, the tangles get fierce. (It's Bernadette Peters-type hair. It's light enough that it's still very curly even when it's long.)

I've actually found that washing it once a week or so helps with the frizz; I used to wash it every other day, and it got very dry.

Lillith1991 · Feb 16, 2015

Sam Argent said:
I wear my hair relaxed because I like it long, and in my case, wearing it natural only leaves me with bald patches. Hair breaks off usually because you're not taking care of it, which I am not capable of doing daily with a bad back, wrists, and elbows. It's weird. My hair without relaxer is kinky, but the curls aren't super tight and still mat like a mofo no matter what product I used. This led to a string of hairstyles and beauty shops when I was a kid to find a way to stop my hair from breaking. Braids were my first attempt, and I loved them. Unfortunately, they take a full friggin work shift to put in my hair and having them put in was like a thousand purple nurples on my scalp. Next was the s-curl that while wasn't a lot of maintenance, I became known as the Black Curly Sue at school. Then there was the close cut that I loathed. I know there were other styles, but relaxing my hair came last.

This is why I'm kind of bothered by people who assume that whenever they see straightened hair, it's because that person is ashamed of having a natural hair style. I'm not saying that about anyone in this thread, but it's something that I hear a lot. I've seen the discrimination against natural hair in media and the dumb school dress codes that place unfair hair restrictions on PoC, so I do understand the pride that comes with choosing personal hair styles. It's just feels like something else that other people don't consider health restrictions and think daily hair regiments are the easiest things in the world.

Yea, I've noticed that too with some of my fellow naturals. Personally I like well cared for hair, and I absolutely love seeing well cared for relaxed hair even though I love my natural hair. But in all fairness, I think some of the negativity comes from people saying they CANT wear it natural when they mean they don't want to. You know the people I'm talking about, they dislike natural hair but moan and complain about awful their relaxed hair looks. They'll make any excuse under the sun for why they could never be natural, but won't do what their relaxed hair needs to thrive. Some naturals just wrongly assume every relaxed person is like that, and quite wrongly. Far as I'm concerned, if the hair looks healthy while relaxed and I don't hear any foolishness from the person, I just assume that it's just how they like their hair.

Hell, I still look at relaxed head vids on youtube even though I've been natural 7 years and give hums of approval when watching someone apply product only to their newgrowth. I just love Black hair in general, don't matter to me if it's relaxed or not.

Lillith1991 · Feb 16, 2015

Rachel77 said:
Leave-in hair conditioner is really all I use these days. It's always been like this, regardless of what products I've tried.

My hair is fairly thick, and the strands themselves are very light, so it's generally cloud-like. I think that's why it mats so easily; it's so light that it's hard to keep the strands from twirling around each other, and once I've slept on it, the tangles get fierce. (It's Bernadette Peters-type hair. It's light enough that it's still very curly even when it's long.)

I've actually found that washing it once a week or so helps with the frizz; I used to wash it every other day, and it got very dry.

Oh, my sister has hair that's slightly similar. It's only a little bit tighter than what you described and medium as supposed to thick. Do you like your hair more controled or do you like it a bit more wild?

Rachel77 · Feb 16, 2015

backslashbaby said:
'White' curly hair still doesn't usually have the same texture as Black (or Jewish?) curly hair, so the Black products have a lot more conditioners in them. On 'white' hair, it weights them down too much or they can even look greasy. Curly and greasy is not a good look, so 'white' curly products are just lighter.

That's been my experience with Black hair care products, unfortunately; they do make my hair look/feel greasy. I don't mind that they weigh my hair down (there are times when I imagine tying little weights onto my hair to keep it from flying around), but they're meant for hair with a different texture.

Lillith1991 said:
Oh, my sister has hair that's slightly similar. It's only a little bit tighter than what you described and medium as supposed to thick. Do you like your hair more controled or do you like it a bit more wild?

Definitely controlled! It's why I started ironing it straight; it's much better behaved that way.

I have discovered that manually curling my hair when it's wet -- taking a few locks at a time and twisting them to encourage the curl, and then letting them air dry -- works well for controlled curls. But because I have to brush it out every morning to avoid mats, I have to then sit there on subsequent mornings and twirl little locks back into shape or they'll frizz out. It gets boring very quickly, which is why I've lately taken to ironing my hair straight. It's still boring, but I only have to do it once after my hair's dry.

Looking at this, "because it gets boring very quickly" seems to be a major factor for me with my hair. I've had people with straight hair tell me they wish they had natural curls, and I'm always like, "You have no idea how much time it takes to maintain curly hair."

kuwisdelu · Feb 16, 2015

Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

Lillith1991 · Feb 16, 2015

kuwisdelu said:
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

*thinks*

You said it is fine, straight, and smooth. But poofy to me sounds like it is one of those inbetween types, the sort between straight and wavy hair. Maybe leave in conditioner and oil to seal it would help. I can dig up some info if you want, Kuwi?

backslashbaby · Feb 16, 2015

You might just have so much of it that it's thick that way (that's how you recognize my mom's side of the family at funerals, lol.) Garnier used to make a tub of paste that was nice for that. I forget what it's called, but it's a bit waxy and you just use a bit to weigh the hair down and do nothing else, basically.

A light oil could work, too, but if yours is naturally straight and fine, it could look like you have product (oil) on it.

Viridian · Feb 16, 2015

@Kuwi: how do you care for your hair? Only asking because you're a guy.

I've noticed that men with long hair tend to have hair like that: silky and straight, but with a tendency to poof out. The solution is to stop treating your hair like you're a guy and start caring for it like a woman.

Women shower less. And we condition our hair every time we wash it. And we regularly get our hair trimmed, even when we're growing it out.

Lillith1991 · Feb 16, 2015

ViridianChick said:
@Kuwi: how do you care for your hair? Only asking because you're a guy.

I've noticed that men with long hair tend to have hair like that: silky and straight, but with a tendency to poof out. The solution is to stop treating your hair like you're a guy and start caring for it like a woman.

Women shower less. And we condition our hair every time we wash it. And we regularly get our hair trimmed, even when we're growing it out.

Well, I'm not so sure about the showering less part. We tend to wet our hair less, but that's what showering caps are for. I only wash my hair 1x a week but I let the steam work it's magic during my showers the rest of the week. Only difference between a regular day and wash day is that wash day means my head gets soaked.

Rachel77 · Feb 16, 2015

kuwisdelu said:
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

Seconding ViridianChick's suggestion to condition it every time you wash it, if you're not already doing that.

When my hair has that poofiness, it's generally because it's overly dry; from what you've said about how you like it post-workout, it sounds like that might be part of your issue, as well. I used to wash it every other day, and even with the conditioner, I was constantly battling poofiness. I'm still battling poofiness in that it inherently likes to float, but switching to washing it once a week helped a lot (it really didn't need to be washed every other day).

Out of curiosity, what do the stylists do when you ask them to thin it out? (For me, that means adding layers, but I don't know what they do with guys.)

C.bronco · Feb 16, 2015

kuwisdelu said:
Actually, I have a question on my half-Zuni, half-white hair.

I need something to weigh it down. I like wearing my hair down when I can, but I have so much volume, it has a tendency to poof out.

I always ask stylists to thin it as much as they can because I have too much, but even then, it just goes out, despite being very fine, straight, and smooth.

Any suggestions?

Edit: I actually like how it looks after I've worked out, because the sweat weighs it down. Of course, then it's sweaty, which is icky, so I don't want to leave it like that!

Let me know if you find something. I have fine, straight hair that never frizzed until I moved to this warm, humid climate, and will try anything to get me through April though October.

Viridian · Feb 16, 2015

Lillith1991 said:
Well, I'm not so sure about the showering less part. We tend to wet our hair less, but that's what showering caps are for. I only wash my hair 1x a week but I let the steam work it's magic during my showers the rest of the week. Only difference between a regular day and wash day is that wash day means my head gets soaked.

I've heard men shower more in general. There's actually a couple studies to back it up, but one is German and the other is from Reddit, so take that as you will.

Anyway, yeah, you're right, the important thing is that women wash their hair less. Hair oil is there for a reason. People with short hair can get away with everyday washing if they want, but it's not ideal for long hair.

C.bronco · Feb 16, 2015

I do not see that as an option for me. I will not go more than 24 hours without a shower. My hair would not like it either.

kuwisdelu · Feb 16, 2015

Lillith1991 said:
*thinks*

You said it is fine, straight, and smooth. But poofy to me sounds like it is one of those inbetween types, the sort between straight and wavy hair. Maybe leave in conditioner and oil to seal it would help. I can dig up some info if you want, Kuwi?

It has a some waviness from the white part, yeah.

ViridianChick said:
@Kuwi: how do you care for your hair? Only asking because you're a guy.

I've noticed that men with long hair tend to have hair like that: silky and straight, but with a tendency to poof out. The solution is to stop treating your hair like you're a guy and start caring for it like a woman.

Women shower less. And we condition our hair every time we wash it. And we regularly get our hair trimmed, even when we're growing it out.

I've been trying to treat it like a woman ever since I grew it out, except for the regular trimming (because letting people cut my hair always makes me nervous).

I condition it whenever I shower (unless I'm on vacation or something and don't have conditioner) and used to go several days to a week without washing it.

I do prefer how it looks after a few days without washing, but usually only if I haven't exercised during those days. I don't want it to look sweaty, after all.

Unfortunately, I recently developed a problem with dandruff, so I've needed to start washing it more frequently.

But in general, all the shampoos and conditioners I get are meant for women.

Rachel77 said:
Out of curiosity, what do the stylists do when you ask them to thin it out? (For me, that means adding layers, but I don't know what they do with guys.)

I ask to trim X amount, layer it, and thin it.

Thinning comes after adding the layers, where they use a special scissors that only cuts some of the hair, and comb out the ones that were cut.

It's usually a bit better after thinning it, so I think it's mostly excess volume, and I probably just need to get myself to a salon more often.

Edit: I usually only go 2-3 times a year...

Ken · Feb 16, 2015

... sulfur is your friend.

Viridian · Feb 16, 2015

@Kuwi: haha! You sound like you have some goddamn healthy hair. I have no idea, then. Good luck.

Lillith1991 · Feb 16, 2015

C.bronco said:
I do not see that as an option for me. I will not go more than 24 hours without a shower. My hair would not like it either.

Why would not washing your hair mean not showering? There's shower caps and just plain ol'fashioned not getting your hair wet if someone doesn't want to wash their hair.

kuwisdelu · Feb 16, 2015

I know I should probably go to the salon more often.

But how do you women keep up with all these things anyway?

I decided to start shaving my legs recently, and it's a pain to keep up...

Let's talk hair!

Twitching

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred

~~~~*~~~~

Rygel XVI

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

Revolutionize the World

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

~~~~*~~~~

local good boy

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I have plans...

local good boy

I have plans...

Revolutionize the World

local good boy

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

Revolutionize the World

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