[Publisher] Ravenous Romance

pepperlandgirl · Jul 10, 2009

Unimportant said:
3. Editing of my short story (unless it was done without my knowledge) was precisely zero, but perhaps that's standard.

I have a story with them for an anthology. I just got an email (sent to all the authors) that said "If you haven't given us your paperwork, do so now, because this is going to be released soon." No actual date, and no sign that there will be any editing. I'm partly disappointed and partly horrified by this, because when I re-read my submission, I found a few little errors. No big deal, but they're still embarrassing, and I would have liked to have a chance to fix them!

I submitted the story because it was short, and I was curious. I won't be submitting to them again.

Sakamonda · Jul 10, 2009

Ravenous has two to three layers of editing, FYI----the editor of the anthology, the acquisitions staff editor, and a copyeditor. So no less than three different editors are going to give the entire manuscript a look-see. Trust me, they have good editorial staff coverage there.

If you email your anthology editor she/he should be able to give you a release date.

Sakamonda · Jul 10, 2009

I've only submitted/sold one short story to RR, so my experience is a single datum point:

1. Very slow responses. It took me emailing three or four different people to get a response to my query about the contract. I've had a similar lack of response for my request for payment.

2. What appears to be misrepresentative description of the anthology: It's listed as "Title" by "Name", with the name being that of the editor (making it look like she's the author). The description of the stories in the blurb imply that all the stories are by that single author. On the cover, the "edited by" is very difficult to read (in between BIG TITLE and BIG EDITOR'S NAME), furthering this misleading stance.

3. Editing of my short story (unless it was done without my knowledge) was precisely zero, but perhaps that's standard.

4. Nice cover art. No arguments there.

5. No complimentary author copy, which considering the negligible cost of creating an extra e-book is pretty disappointing.

----Who are you contacting about your contract? If you're contacting your anthology editor (who is not a Ravenous employee), that might explain the delay. I've never had to wait more than 24 hours for a response from Ravenous staff. Payments are made within 45 days of receipt of author invoice. If you don't submit your invoice, though, you won't get paid.

You can get an author copy. All you have to do is ask for one. I have gotten author copies for all my titles.

Re: editorial----they have anthology editors, staff editors, and copyeditors. Every title gets edited at least twice, often 3 times, by different people.

Single or double digit sales would put them well down the list of epublishers. If this is typical it would put them in last place at EREC.

----That sales data was incomplete. Complete first-period sales data will be released very soon. And I know that at least a couple of my titles have sold waayyyyy more than that (indeed, I have bestseller status at multiple affiliate sites, including Amazon, AllRomanceEbooks, and Audible). And I'm not the highest-selling author there by any means. I'll be happy to provide my sales data once I have all of it in (it's coming in from at least 7 different affiliate sites along with the main site).

jennontheisland · Jul 10, 2009

Sakamonda said:
----Who are you contacting about your contract? If you're contacting your anthology editor (who is not a Ravenous employee), that might explain the delay. I've never had to wait more than 24 hours for a response from Ravenous staff. Payments are made within 45 days of receipt of author invoice. If you don't submit your invoice, though, you won't get paid.

bolding 1 - If the anthology editor isn't an employee who do they work for? Ravenous has editors who don't work there?

bolding 2 - what's an author invoice? I've never heard of such a thing. My impression was that publishers sent statements and cheques. I'm guessing maybe Ravenous sets up their authors as independant contractors? But even with that, how does an author know what to invoice? Isn't it the publisher's responsibility to track sales and pay thier authors accordingly?

eqb · Jul 10, 2009

Sakamonda said:
If you don't submit your invoice, though, you won't get paid.

I do know some publishers who operate that way--requiring an invoice--but my experience with anthologies and magazines is that they pay me automatically. Do the contracts specifically state that the author must jump through this extra hoop?

You can get an author copy. All you have to do is ask for one. I have gotten author copies for all my titles.

Why the extra step? The contract should state how many contrib copies the author will receive. If they do receive one or more, why should the author have to ask?

eqb · Jul 10, 2009

jennontheisland said:
bolding 1 - If the anthology editor isn't an employee who do they work for? Ravenous has editors who don't work there?

It's standard for an antho editor to be a freelancer. They sell the idea for the antho to the publisher, then take on the work of buying and editing the stories. In return, the publisher pays them a fee and a percentage of the royalties.

jennontheisland · Jul 10, 2009

eqb said:
It's standard for an antho editor to be a freelancer. They sell the idea for the antho to the publisher, then take on the work of buying and editing the stories. In return, the publisher pays them a fee and a percentage of the royalties.

Okay, that makes sense, but if they're editing and coordinating the stories, shouldn't they be the one to communicate with the authors about edits and whatnot?

eqb · Jul 10, 2009

jennontheisland said:
Okay, that makes sense, but if they're editing and coordinating the stories, shouldn't they be the one to communicate with the authors about edits and whatnot?

Absolutely. They should be in regular contact with the authors. It's part of their job.

Sakamonda · Jul 10, 2009

I do know some publishers who operate that way--requiring an invoice--but my experience with anthologies and magazines is that they pay me automatically. Do the contracts specifically state that the author must jump through this extra hoop?

---Yes, the Ravenous contract specifically states the invoicing procedure. (That's why it's important to read your contract.) You only have to submit an invoice for your advance. Royalties are paid out quarterly once the advance is earned out, no invoices needed.

I can't speak for the other anthology editors, but for the two anthologies I edited, I made sure to respond to inquiries from my contributors within 24 hours. For any question I couldn't answer, I put them in touch w/ Ravenous staff directly.

It is standard operating procedure in both the print world and epublishing world to hire outside editors for anthologies, with anthology editor acting as overall "author" for the book, given author credit, and paid the bulk of royalties. Examples in the print world include the annual Susie Bright erotica anthologies, Rachel Kramer Bussel's many anthologies, the annual Best American Short Story anthologies, science-fiction themed anthologies (editors include Orson Scott Card and Gardner Dozois). Giving the anthology editor author credit is not at all unusual, and these editors are contracted and paid just like an author of an original work would be.

eqb · Jul 10, 2009

Sakamonda said:
---Yes, the Ravenous contract specifically states the invoicing procedure.

What about contrib copies? Do the contracts explicitly state how many copies the author receives?

Sakamonda · Jul 10, 2009

These are ebooks, so you only get one non-DRMed PDF of your ebook, and one non-DRMed audio file of your audiobook (if they did an audiobook version), which you are free to distribute to whomever you wish.

eqb · Jul 10, 2009

Sakamonda said:
These are ebooks, so you only get one non-DRMed PDF of your ebook, and one non-DRMed audio file of your audiobook (if they did an audiobook version), which you are free to distribute to whomever you wish.

That's good to know. But to repeat my question, does the contract explicitly state that?

I ask because Unimportant didn't receive a copy, and your post said you "asked for one." So either RR didn't fulfill that part of the contract, or the contrib copies are only for those who know to ask for them.

Sakamonda · Jul 10, 2009

Contributor copies are not covered in the contract, because these are ebooks, not print books. But RR will give them to any author who requests them.

eqb · Jul 10, 2009

Sakamonda said:
Contributor copies are not covered in the contract, because these are ebooks, not print books. But RR will give them to any author who requests them.

Thank you for answering my question.

Speaking as an author, I would not normally assume I could ask for a copy, e-book or not. It seems more like an unspoken benefit, one which new authors, or authors new to RR, would not/could not know. Perhaps RR would consider making that option clear in their contacts?

pepperlandgirl · Jul 10, 2009

Sakamonda said:
Contributor copies are not covered in the contract, because these are ebooks, not print books. But RR will give them to any author who requests them.

FWIW, every other epublisher I work with stipulates how many author copies or contributor copies we get. That is, they might just send us 1 pdf file, but the contract specifies how many times we can give it away. I'm not saying it has to be done this way, but just saying "it's not done because it's ebooks" seems to go against current industry standards.

Unimportant · Jul 10, 2009

Like one of the other posters on this thread, I submitted my story mostly out of curiosity to see how it would work out. It'll be interesting to see if the royalties from the various sales and subright sales work out to be higher than, say, the standard $50 flat fee (with 2 cc) that publishers like Cleis pay for a short story while leaving the author free to sell the story as a reprint.

RR's freelance anthology editors are well respected names in the industry so selling a story to one of them looks good on one's bio. On the other hand, the boilerplate contract is totally heinous, though they are willing to negotiate on some aspects; and having to submit an invoice for initial payment is a pain.

At this time I'm waiting to see how the $$ pans out; till then, I doubt I'll submit another story to them.

BarbaraSheridan · Jul 11, 2009

Add me to the "submitted a short to try them out" club. My issues are also inline with what's been mentioned--the whole invoice for your advance, ask for your author copy, lack of editing and a final pass before publishing. I've mentioned these concerns to RR management and hope others have as well.

Those in charge of RR have the publishing experience to succeed but they really need to take a few hints from the successful e-publishers on how things are generally done in this arena. One of the biggest being showing actual copies sold on statements not only the gross amount of sales and royalites earned.

Sakamonda · Jul 11, 2009

I can say that I myself have raised several concerns with RR staff on some of their operating procedures, and am pleased to report that they do listen to their authors' concerns. They have made multiple changes in their administrative procedures based on author feedback. So they do listen. Which is more than I can say for some of my other publishers (which include huge international print publishing conglomerates)

Chumplet · Jul 11, 2009

I'm holding off judgment until I see a proper royalty statement with third party distributors included.

I had editing issues and asked Michelle for another look-see at my file before they sent it off to print. Holly contacted me directly and attached my formatted file to make my own changes.

I've been with 3 epubs. The first didn't give an e-copy, but gave one print copy. The second gave an e-copy with the stipulation that it couldn't be copied more than 10 times. They didn't offer a free hard copy at all. I had an author discount.

RR has no limit on copies of the pdf sent. They suggest it's in the author's best interest not to give away e-copies all willy-nilly, but they don't penalize you for giving out more than a certain limit. When my book is available in print, they have a system to order with an author discount.

The invoicing issue doesn't bother me at all. Granted, I've never had to do it before and had used snail mail, but after a discussion on the boards, I find they'll take emailed invoices. No big dealeo to me.

RR authors have been making suggestions for improvements on our private loop. Being an eternal optimist, I trust that Holly, Lori and Michelle are taking note.

Unimportant · Jul 11, 2009

I'm guessing I just got unlucky and hit a snag with the unanswered emails thing, since I haven't heard anyone else complaining about non-responsiveness. I think RR has a lot of potential, and they're clearly realising it by selling the print rights to some of their e-books to very respectable presses, small and large. I can see why they'd want to hold secondary rights to the novels they acquire, since they've got an agent on board who's got the connections to leverage them. I can't honestly see why they'd want secondary rights to every short story they buy for an e-anthology -- surely their agent, Lori Perkins, doesn't have time to shop hundreds of short stories around?

I also can't figure out why they'd want to faff around with royalty payments to scores of short story authors. Especially since I'm guessing that royalty splits for anthologies will be based on word count. Can you imagine figuring out how much a given anthology earned via e-book sales on the RR site, and then how much via other e-book sellers, and then how much via the print publisher who bought the print rights to the anthology, and then how much via the audio publisher, blahblahblah, and then figure out the royalty rate for each type of sale, and then figure out how much of that goes to the editor and how much to the authors, and then figure out from that how much each individual author gets based on their relative word count contribution to the anthology.....and to do that for every anthology, for every payment period, endlessly? Crikey, their accountant must be a glutton for punishment.

I did some rough calculations and figured out that for the e-anthology my story is in, I should earn about 7 cents per copy sold. When/if sold on to a print publisher, the sale of the print copies via the secondary rights would earn me about 2 cents per copy. Hmm. So if it sells 500 e-copies and 1000 print copies (wild guess here) I should get around $55, and for that I've given up e-, print, audio, and all other rights for 3 (?? can't remember) years. Versus, say, a sale to Cleis, which pays a flat $50 for one-time print rights and nothing else.

I'm not writing RR off my list, but I'll probably be staying in the wait-and-see mode for a while, unless they radically change their short story contract.

pepperlandgirl · Jul 11, 2009

Unimportant said:
So if it sells 500 e-copies and 1000 print copies (wild guess here) I should get around $55, and for that I've given up e-, print, audio, and all other rights for 3 (?? can't remember) years. Versus, say, a sale to Cleis, which pays a flat $50 for one-time print rights and nothing else.

Unless you negotiated the contract, it's a lot more than three years. Try "full term of copyright." At least, mine was before I negotiated.

Unimportant · Jul 11, 2009

Yes, I did negotiate.

As I said, their boilerplate contract is heinous. That in itself would make me very hesitant to submit to them again. It helps that they're willing to negotiate, but the all-rights-grab they go for initially -- and have got from a lot of other authors -- makes them appear a bit unscrupulous.

Sakamonda · Jul 12, 2009

to be fair, most publishers' boilerplate contracts are heinous. The question is whether they are willing to negotiate or not. If a publisher isn't willing to negotiate on anything in its boilerplate, then that's a reason to avoid them.

Unimportant · Jul 12, 2009

Sakamonda said:
to be fair, most publishers' boilerplate contracts are heinous. The question is whether they are willing to negotiate or not. If a publisher isn't willing to negotiate on anything in its boilerplate, then that's a reason to avoid them.

I wouldn't agree with this. I've seen quite a few anthology contracts, but never anything like this one. I agree that a publisher should be willing to negotiate, as each author's needs and priorities are different and and so each individual's contract will need to accommodate those needs and priorities, but I cannot agree that it doesn't reflect poorly on a publisher for their boilerplate contract to be such a rights grab.

Me, I read the boilerplate contract as the publisher saying, "Here's the offer I think is fair." When that "fair offer" is totally out of proportion to industry standard and is, in reality, screwing the author royally, I think it's prudent to go on the assumption that this is the publisher's general mindset and is the kind of treatment you can expect from the publisher over the course of your interactions with them. And in my experience, this has invariably proved to be the case.

circlexranch · Jul 12, 2009

I actually like the website. For me it captures the fun and silly/naughty aspect of erotica with all the beefcake splashed all over the place.

However . . . .

I was cruising the excerpts and this line REALLY bothered me:

"Jovinius Markus Artinuous should have died at Thermopoly . . . "

Since the character is supposedly a Spartan wandering through time, I would have thought him to be a surrvivor of Thermopylae . . .

Am I being overly critical or is there some explanation of this that I have missed?

CXR

[Publisher] Ravenous Romance

American Aquarium Drinker

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