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celticroots

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The WIP about the girl who self-harms has been on my mind a lot. It's the one I am focusing on the most. Stuff with her Dad and feeling invalidated is a big reason she self-harms. She also struggles with depression and anxiety, but Dad doesn't believe in that "crap" as he calls it. He's big on her getting a good score on the SATS so she can get into a good college, as well as being active in extra-curricular activities and sports. Stuff he thinks are brownie points on college applications.

Self-harm is the only way she feels she can release all the pent up feelings/thoughts she can't say and deal with depression/suicidal thoughts. So when the parents find out about MC's cutting, she feels like she's lost the only thing keeping her alive basically. Then she experiments with other methods, blah, blah, blah, which leads to a whole other can of worms. She feels like her privacy was violated when her cutting was found out. Dad has zero respect for privacy (going through her room, etc)which just fuels MC to harm in other ways.

Would it make sense for the Mom and Dad to stand in the way of MC getting better? Even if she's made the choice that she wants to stop? Aside from being scared to death of having to really feel, since SH, no matter the method, has functioned like a band-aid for years.

And part of her growing, changing, blah, as a character is to tackle the things that make her want to harm. As in actually try to talk to Dad and Mom. And he completely invalidates her or something. Refusing to change his thinking about self-harm, etc.

Mom and Dad mean well but make it worse through ignorance. Not realizing that self-harm is a SYMPTOM of a BIGGER problem.

Example: Mom takes away all sharp objects (bad idea). Checks her for fresh cuts, etc. Which fuels MC to experiment with more "secretive" at least to her ways to harm.

Recently I read "The Luckiest Girl in the World," by Steven Levenkron in which the main character self-harms. The mom had a horrible temper and is just basically a crappy person. Her behavior didn't strike me as realistic at all.


I am wondering how the parents can be one thing making things worse for MC. To make the book be powerful and meaningful. To speak to people. Without being just too over the top.

The main conflict is still largely internal.
 
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Lhowling

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I think the ways you mentioned are pretty on point. Parents who have good intentions, trying to do what they think is best, and yet its all counteractive. Lots of privacy. Driving her wherever she needs to go. Limiting the time she spends with friends so they can watch her closely. Speaking with doctors behind her back (yikes). Or punishing her each time she cuts, thinking this might make her stop. Taking away cell phone, car, no dates, etc.

What's worse is that in situations like this, when someone is seeking treatment it often involves the family needing to make a change as well. There's a sect of therapy that deals with treating the family as an unit, and its not uncommon for mental health professionals to recommend therapy or support groups for loved ones of those in need of some form of treatment. Maybe she and another therapist address her parents about also getting therapy and adjusting their behavior. But they won't because they don't see themselves as part of the problem. They don't cut, so why should they have to go through therapy? This lack of participation in someone's care is a big blow because it ultimately means that person is alone in their recovery as well.

You can also go the opposite direction and make them enablers. It might not be realistic (at first glance) but I think it can be done with a specific type of parents, types who might have mental or substance abuse disorders. Or they may be very attached to her, so much so they don't see how they can be enabling her. Maybe she's able to manipulate them into getting razors, or giving her more privacy to cut, or even allowing her to cut because they think if they don't she'll kill herself; at least if something happens they can send her to the hospital or help her.
 

celticroots

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She bruises fairly early on in the novel, because being in sports, she feels parents won't think anything of it. It also stems back to the privacy, control things with MC. She thinks she can keep doing it, keep the marks, until she gets in too deep. She sometimes also helps her Dad on building projects, so he unintentionally enables her because she starts pieces of wood on herself. And tools around the workbench.
 
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Bufty

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A very minor point, Celticroots, but you keep referring to 'her Mom and her Dad' and 'the Mom and Dad' and 'to Mom and Dad' with capital letters. Unless it's direct address it should be mom and dad.

With all this self-harming stuff, just out of curiosity, who are your intended readers?
 
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Maze Runner

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Would it make sense for the Mom and Dad to stand in the way of MC getting better? Even if she's made the choice that she wants to stop? Aside from being scared to death of having to really feel, since SH, no matter the method, has functioned like a band-aid for years.

And part of her growing, changing, blah, as a character is to tackle the things that make her want to harm. As in actually try to talk to Dad and Mom. And he completely invalidates her or something. Refusing to change his thinking about self-harm, etc.

Mom and Dad mean well but make it worse through ignorance. Not realizing that self-harm is a SYMPTOM of a BIGGER problem.


I am wondering how the parents can be one thing making things worse for MC. To make the book be powerful and meaningful. To speak to people. Without being just too over the top.

The main conflict is still largely internal.

The bigger problem is the story. As the writer of the story, you have to know what that bigger problem is. Mom and Dad are enabling, because they are making it more difficult for her to see and address the problem through their denial that crap like that even exists. It may seem easier, faster, more on-point to address the symptoms by hiding sharp objects, etc, but somewhere in the back of their heads they know that is not the case, but they are afraid to admit, accept that for a number of possible reasons. It may scare the hell out of them that their kid could have major issues, they may be so overwhelmed in their own lives that they feel they don't have time/energy/focus to take on hers. OR, Mom or Dad or both could BE the problem. This last one to me, seems like it could have the most potential. You're right, the cutting isn't the issue. So what is?
 

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Maybe Mum and Dad are fighting, having issues in their marriage and that is what is making things worse for her.
 

Lhowling

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The bigger problem is the story. As the writer of the story, you have to know what that bigger problem is.

I think this is a good point to keep in mind.

You mentioned she's depressed and anxious, this to me is the core of the problem. Now you have to establish specifics. Was there an event or a series of events that brought this on? Or is this something she's felt since as long as she can remember, exacerbated now that she is a teenager? When did the cutting start? Was this one of many coping mechanisms she has used?

The reason I ask because understanding the MC and the origins of the problem, as well as how it's developed over time, can give me some inclination of how the parents may act. For example, if Dad thinks it's crap, then it may not be just his personality. Maybe it's because she's always been such an excellent student. She's, for some time, hid her emotions (your job is to establish why). Repressing those emotions means finding an outlet. And once he notices, it feels like this is suddenly out of the blue when, in fact, it's been going on for a lot longer (MC was just good at hiding it). Maybe he's thought that if he just loves and cares for her, she will be okay. But, she isn't, and he may have to take responsibility for that. He doesn't know how. He can't understand how someone like her can be depressed given his own parenting abilities. So he believes that if she just keeps going, then maybe she'll grow out of it. I mean, how can you be upset when you get a high score on your SATs and get accepted to a good school?

You mentioned she helps him with projects; does he make her help him? Not in any abusive way, just a good ol-fashioned guilt trip or no allowance. Or does it bring her some peace of mind? I ask because if she's doing these projects with him and she's taking opportunities to cut herself during that time, then we need to consider what's going on with her first and foremost. What is happening to her that drives her to feel something other than pain during a moment of bonding? Or is she using that time to put her Dad at ease and gets what she wants also, which are opportunities to cut her herself?

First you have to get to the core of why your MC cuts to begin with. Next you add more dimension to your characters, which could help you determine how they might respond in a more realistic way. Think of the family values (if any) that her parents want to uphold. Then think of their own individual personalities and temperaments. All of these things affect their attitudes towards the MC and her behavior.
 

celticroots

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The bigger problem is the story. As the writer of the story, you have to know what that bigger problem is. Mom and Dad are enabling, because they are making it more difficult for her to see and address the problem through their denial that crap like that even exists. It may seem easier, faster, more on-point to address the symptoms by hiding sharp objects, etc, but somewhere in the back of their heads they know that is not the case, but they are afraid to admit, accept that for a number of possible reasons. It may scare the hell out of them that their kid could have major issues, they may be so overwhelmed in their own lives that they feel they don't have time/energy/focus to take on hers. OR, Mom or Dad or both could BE the problem. This last one to me, seems like it could have the most potential. You're right, the cutting isn't the issue. So what is?

The issue is that MC doesn't feel she can talk about the stress she's under. Or that she may be depressed. The issue is MC uses self harm as a form of venting all those things. The marks are validation for her. So the issue is she has to learn healthier ways to express herself. Because if not the consequences of her SH could affect her family.
 

celticroots

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A very minor point, Celticroots, but you keep referring to 'her Mom and her Dad' and 'the Mom and Dad' and 'to Mom and Dad' with capital letters. Unless it's direct address it should be mom and dad.

With all this self-harming stuff, just out of curiosity, who are your intended readers?

My intended readers are those who self harm. Or anyone interested in just one reason people do it, etc.

She doesn't like helping him with projects, but does so to avoid conflict with Dad. When she helps him with things it's a way to show how they interact. Her father's criticism and how she feels that nothing she ever does is good enough. And the work tools play a role in her self harm later.
 
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Maze Runner

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My intended readers are those who self harm. Or anyone interested in just one reason people do it, etc.

She doesn't like helping him with projects, but does so to avoid conflict with Dad. When she helps him with things it's a way to show how they interact. Her father's criticism and how she feels that nothing she ever does is good enough. And the work tools play a role in her self harm later.

So, maybe this is it. He's brow-beating her, making her feel like nothing. Her self-harming is a subconscious way of agreeing, of punishing herself.

The issue is that MC doesn't feel she can talk about the stress she's under. Or that she may be depressed. The issue is MC uses self harm as a form of venting all those things. The marks are validation for her. So the issue is she has to learn healthier ways to express herself. Because if not the consequences of her SH could affect her family.

Right, not her, but her family. Even here she is worth nothing in her own eyes. It's how it will affect her family that she's concerned about. That would seem to be textbook for someone who's been convinced of their lack of worth.

As you said in the OP, it seems to me that the story lies in her discovery of the cause of her SH and feelings of worthlessness, how that comes about, and how she will begin to heal. Will her parents play an active part in her discovery, through denial, arguments, moments of truth insights and admissions? I believe she will have to drive this discovery, but what will that look like? Sobby or violent confrontations? Is there another layer of this that in writing you will discover? I'd say allow the character to lead you, follow her need to heal. Will she have to make a clean break? Is one parent worse than the other? And also, if the brow-beating is behind your MC's SH? What's behind the brow beating? Do you want to get into that? Usually that kind of severe, consistent criticism is projection. It could be that Dad is projecting his own feelings o worthlessness onto his daughter.

Seems like a real meaty story. I'd just look for this family's truths.
 

Bufty

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Well, I wish you good luck.

I could be wrong, but it seems a most depressing topic and I cannot see how youngsters who self-harm will derive any benefit from reading a fictional account of someone else self-harming, yet alone desire to read such a tale at all.

It nay be preferable to concentrate upon a wider strong story element instead of the self-harming issue, if the latter is indeed the focus of the story.

As I said, I wish you good luck.


My intended readers are those who self harm. Or anyone interested in just one reason people do it, etc.
 

Debbie V

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Contrasting Bufty's comments. Here's a list of what's already out on this topic. http://www.librarything.com/tag/cutting Make sure you have a unique take.

Dad sounds like the sort who might be embarrassed by his daughter's cutting. This keeps people from getting help for their kids on drugs too. They think it reflects poorly on them. He might actively belittle the cutting behavior and child because of what others will think of him if/when they find out. If she goes into a program, they'll wonder where she went. So, yeah, actively, consciously or subconsciously, interfering with recovery happens.

He'll have to get over his own sense of perfection in order to deal with who she really is and who he really is.
 

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Well, I wish you good luck.

I could be wrong, but it seems a most depressing topic and I cannot see how youngsters who self-harm will derive any benefit from reading a fictional account of someone else self-harming, yet alone desire to read such a tale at all.

It nay be preferable to concentrate upon a wider strong story element instead of the self-harming issue, if the latter is indeed the focus of the story.

As I said, I wish you good luck.

You'd be surprised. I'm a teacher and we've had several incidents of kids reading books like this at school (at my school this is discouraged).

The reason is becomes an issue is we've had problems with them copying the behavior of the book, whether they did or not before. Teens and tweens are pretty open to suggestion.
 

ArtsyAmy

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Mom and Dad mean well but make it worse through ignorance. Not realizing that self-harm is a SYMPTOM of a BIGGER problem.




I am wondering how the parents can be one thing making things worse for MC. To make the book be powerful and meaningful. To speak to people. Without being just too over the top.


I think you've already touched on a good answer to your question. To make the parents contribute to the problem and to keep the story from being over the top, you could focus on the parents' ignorance, and how that works against the daughter's getting better. From what you've described, it seems to me that the parents are good parents who love their daughter and are trying to look out for her best interests. But they're coming up against something (their daughter's mental health issues) that they don't understand, and their attemts to help her fall short because of their ignorance.

Another way to make the story more meaningful might be to have the parents' ingorance eventually change to understanding. It's already been noted on this thread how people can be open to suggestion, so I'll just add (humbly, as I'm hesitant to make suggestions regarding content) that maybe you'll be able to figure out a way to write about the self-harm in such a way that it would be unlikely for the story to be used by readers as instructive. And as Bufty said, perhaps focus on the wider story rather than the self-harming behaviors.

Hope things go well with your story.
 

Bufty

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No, I'm not surprised and your response is exactly why I made the comment.

It seems to me if one wishes to warn teenagers to the dangers of self-harming it seems counter-productive to include it in fiction aimed at the very folk who one is trying to dissuade from self-harming.

Fiction, by its very nature starts with problems or issues that may or may not grow as the tale progresses but which are usually not resolved until the end.

Non-fiction, if someone really had anything constructive to add to the issue, would seem a more appropriate approach to me, but...

You'd be surprised. I'm a teacher and we've had several incidents of kids reading books like this at school (at my school this is discouraged).

The reason is becomes an issue is we've had problems with them copying the behavior of the book, whether they did or not before. Teens and tweens are pretty open to suggestion.
 

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I am wondering how the parents can be one thing making things worse for MC. To make the book be powerful and meaningful. To speak to people. Without being just too over the top.

The main conflict is still largely internal.

There are many ways well-meaning parents can mess up.

There's no kind of horrible parent who's totally unrealistic. But if you're shooting for parents who are decent and well meaning but still screw up, consider that well-meaning parents who love their children can sometimes put pressures on their kids that make the kids feel very conflicted, guilty, ashamed, unworthy or so on.

--Some parents are very focused on school performance, for instance. And it makes perfect sense at some level, because doing well in school means that you'll have more options in life later on. But there's a fine line between instilling an education and work ethic in kids and encouraging them to be neurotically terrified of failure.

--Some are so convinced of their kids specialness or perfection that they refuse to accept that even smart people may struggle more with some things than others (so it's not just laziness if she's not doing as well in one of her classes as she is in her others).

--Some are reliving their own past through their kids or are so fixated on giving their kids things they wanted that they forget to consider that their kid might not want the same things they did/do.

--Some are so concerned about their image as perfect parents that they can't deal with any emotional problems their kids have (and may go into denial).

--Some parents don't let their kids (especially daughters) date or even to go out and socialize with friends, because they're terrified of them coming to harm or getting pregnant, or simply being distracted from school and family commitments.

--Some compartmentalize/label their kids by saying things like, "Tina is the beauty, Audrey is the brains, and Sophie is the athletic one."

--Some have negative feelings about counseling and mental health care for cultural reasons, or because of the social stigma that comes with mental illness.

--Maybe they have relationship issues themselves, and their fighting or quiet anger creates a lot of anxiety or uncertainty for the kid.

--And yes, focusing on the behavior alone, without addressing its underlying causes, can be part of the issue. Not everyone is up on, or agrees with, a lot of the current thinking about psychology.

--A focus on punishment as a solution to all problems is also a fairly common approach. Sometimes loving parents have rose-hued memories of their own strict or harsh upbringings, and rationalize that "they turned out all right," so the the approach must work for all kids or problems.

--Failure by parents to appreciate that the pressures kids are under today to be perfect--perfect bodies, perfect grades, perfect lives--is even greater than it was for their own generation, thanks to social media, rising college costs, and 100s of channels on the television, each one showing digitally enhanced people.

I could go on and on even more here. But the point is, parents are human beings with flaws and insecurities of their own. Sometimes they intersect with the issues their kid is facing in a spectacularly bad way.
 

Emermouse

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Speaking as someone who has self-harmed in the past, I can understand how parents can unintentionally make things worse. One time, when I was having problems, I told my dad who told my mom. What ended up happening was Mom started crying and I felt awful for making her feel awful, which probably led me to keep my feelings to myself more, because yeah, no one wants to be known as the kid who makes her parents cry.

Also, by now, even though I know self-harm won't solve anything--it only makes things worse--part of me feels all angry and resentful whenever anyone tries to make me swear not to do it again. Why? Well, sometimes just knowing I could, was a comfort. Knowing that there was something I could do and I didn't just have wallow in my own emotional vomit, sit there and take it, and all that. So one time when my Mom threw away my collection of sharps, even though I knew this habit was not a healthy one, and that me keeping sharps was akin to an alcoholic keeping a booze cabinet.

I hope you don't have the wrong impression of my parents. They are both kind and caring people who have been nothing but supportive of me. It's just that from the warped perspective Major Depression gives you...
 
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