YA with Adult elements or Adult with YA elements?

StarryEyes · Oct 4, 2014

Hi guys!

I'm almost 45K words into my WIP and there's one question that keeps bugging me - namely, the intended audience. The original concept was for a YA novel but now that I'm further into the writing process I'm not so sure. So here I am, asking you guys for opinions

Stripped down to the bare essentials, my WIP is set in a fantasy world and begins when a 13-year-old girl discovers that the necklace she inherited from her father once belonged to the royal family. What's more, the necklace played a sinister role in a conspiracy which happened 13 years earlier (shortly after the girl's birth) and which culminated in the death of the queen. The story is told from the POV of the girl, the widowed king, and a common soldier as they try to uncover the true story of what happened 13 years ago, and use it, each in their own way, to save the kingdom from falling apart.

It's not a simple, good vs evil story and there are no defined antagonists (each POV character represents a different side of the conflict). Apart from the story of the king and his wife, which is told exclusively through flashbacks, there is also little romance. So those are some elements which might not appeal to younger audiences.

One the other hand, the 13-year-old plays an important role and about half the novel will be told from her perspective, which would work for a YA audience. To a certain extent, it's also (for this character at least) a coming-of-age story. But it also deals with a lot of themes which I'm not sure teenagers would be interested in or relate to - for example, politics, religion, death and grief.

So my questions are:

From what I described, do you think this novel fits better into the YA or the Adult category?

If you're leaning towards YA, do you think teenagers would be interested in reading about mature/heavy themes, and told from the POV of adult characters (the king is in his 40s, and the soldier is 25) as well as a teenage one?

On the other hand, if you're leaning towards Adult (which I am at the moment), would you be able to relate to a 13-year-old protagonist?

I know these questions don't matter that much at this stage of writing, but they have been bugging me a lot, and I'm curious to know what you think!

J.S.Fairey · Oct 4, 2014

My understanding - though I'm certainly open to be told I'm completely wrong - is that the POV/main character of a YA novel HAS to be in the 13-17 age range. So the fact you have two characters older than that (one significantly older) I'd lean and say no, it's not YA.

The themes however, can be. YA can deal with things as dark and heavy as adult novels do, but alongside it's got to deal with the problems of a teenager: growing up, moving on, first loves ect.

As for would an adult want to read about a thirteen year old? If it's done well, why not? To Kill a Mockingbird is from Scout's pov, and that's a classic.

Osulagh · Oct 4, 2014

StarryEyes said:
Do you think teenagers would be interested in reading about mature/heavy themes?

Read more YA. Comparatively, I've read more YA with heavier themes than Adult.

and told from the POV of adult characters (the king is in his 40s, and the soldier is 25) as well as a teenage one?

What role do these characters play in the young girl's life? If it's a vital role, then YA. If not, it could be off-pudding for YA, and better to be in adult.

You can have a young character that is coming of age in any story. Young adults will read about adults; adults will read about young adults--as long as it fits to the primary focus of the story.

YA focuses more on what young adults find more interesting. Teenage problems, young love, challenging athority, ect. Most of these problems and events happen with people between the ages of 13-18, thus the age choice.

Let me ask you:
Does it matter that the character is 13? Yes, I can understand things could be setup for them to be that young, but let's say they're instead 22; what now? Does the entire story just burn to the ground? If not, then the age doesn't matter a whole lot.
You mentioned--very briefly--that there's a coming of age story with the 13 year old. That pretty much comes with the territory, to be honest, and is expected. Now, is the entire story about this coming of age event, or closely related to what a young adult would be facing? Because just having them going through that doesn't make the story YA; like I said before, there can be younger characters in adult books.

It sounds like you've got a young adult character in an Adult book. Keep it that way if you wish, because you can have characters of different ages in books.

victoriakmartin · Oct 4, 2014

Osulagh said:
It sounds like you've got a young adult character in an Adult book. Keep it that way if you wish, because you can have characters of different ages in books.

Based on what you've described, I would agree with this and also say that that's not a bad thing. I've read lots of adult books with teenage protagonists that work really well. Also, lots of teens read "adult" books too (or at least I did).

Of course, it's hard to really say without seeing the actual work, rather than a description (though the description sounds really interesting to me!). Ultimately, I wouldn't worry too much about who the reader is going to be at the moment and just concentrate on telling the story to the best of your abilities. After it's done and you're ready to sell it you can get some firsthand opinions about who the audience is (perhaps get a teenager to read it over or something like that).

Jo Zebedee · Oct 4, 2014

At some point you may have to make a choice and solidify the focus - I know I did (and chose YA for story reasons). But the book's stronger for me knowing the wider context. Crossover does exist, but it's not an easy sell.

StarryEyes · Oct 4, 2014

Thanks all for your answers! They have been very useful, and I think I already have a better understanding of YA/Adult differences, as well as how they apply to my WIP

To answer a couple of questions:

Osulagh said:
What role do these characters play in the young girl's life? If it's a vital role, then YA. If not, it could be off-pudding for YA, and better to be in adult.

The king (40-something years old) plays a vital role in the girl's life, but only because she owns something that belongs to him and he's trying to get it back. He isn't defined by that role - what I mean is that he has other goals (which all come back to the necklace, but don't relate directly to the girl) and his POV chapters don't revolve around her as a character so much as how her actions are affecting his kingdom. The soldier (25-year-old) doesn't come into contact with her at all.

Osulagh said:
Let me ask you:
Does it matter that the character is 13? Yes, I can understand things could be setup for them to be that young, but let's say they're instead 22; what now? Does the entire story just burn to the ground? If not, then the age doesn't matter a whole lot.

Yes, it definitely matters that she is 13. Part of the plot revolves around the fact that she's not come of age yet, and things would be very different if she was older (and the story would likely not happen). So the fact that she's 13 and not 22 or 5 or any other age does tie into the plot.

Osulagh said:
You mentioned--very briefly--that there's a coming of age story with the 13 year old. That pretty much comes with the territory, to be honest, and is expected. Now, is the entire story about this coming of age event, or closely related to what a young adult would be facing? Because just having them going through that doesn't make the story YA; like I said before, there can be younger characters in adult books.

Good question, it definitely made me think. The 13-year-old's part of the story is about her coming of age, but that's only 50% (possibly less) of the story. If I had to pick one major theme for the whole novel, it wouldn't be coming of age, or the struggles of young adults as they grow up. So I guess that settles it as an adult novel, then?

J.S.Fairey said:
As for would an adult want to read about a thirteen year old? If it's done well, why not? To Kill a Mockingbird is from Scout's pov, and that's a classic.

Good point! So far, I do think my WIP would appeal more to adults than young adults and teens, despite the fact that one of the characters is 13. I would be interested to know how you define "done well", though. What's the difference between writing a good, relatable teenage character and one that will put off adult readers?

rwm4768 · Oct 4, 2014

It's an adult fantasy. Adult fantasies can have young POV characters. What is Bran in A Game of Thrones? Seven, I think. And there are many child and teen points of view in that series.

It's quite common in fantasy to have younger POV characters. Not to mention, with a thirteen-year-old main character, you'd actually be in upper MG territory, not YA.

Vimes · Oct 6, 2014

The adult POVs put this firmly into adult fiction, for me.

As a side note though, if you did want to make your protagonist older then maybe the 'coming of age' could just be bumped a bit higher - your characters can come of age whenever you like (e.g. instead of coming of age at the onset of puberty - so, at 13 - you could have it at the age she's considered 'marriagable' in your world - which could be 17-20+!)

vintagegirl · Oct 6, 2014

I don't think the heavier themes or the romance makes it not YA—that's not at all uncommon in YA and in fact, as someone mentioned upthread, I've read more YA than adult with heavier themes (though to be fair, I mostly read YA). What makes it not YA is the 13-year old girl. 13 would mean upper MG, not YA, which usually starts at around 15. Also, the adult characters making up half of the POV would make it a tough sell in YA.
But as many others have said, it's fairly common to have younger POV characters in adult fantasy. So if you choose to go the adult route, which you mentioned you're leaning toward, you wouldn't need to tweak much since it already fits into that genre as is.

J.S.Fairey · Oct 6, 2014

StarryEyes said:
Good point! So far, I do think my WIP would appeal more to adults than young adults and teens, despite the fact that one of the characters is 13. I would be interested to know how you define "done well", though. What's the difference between writing a good, relatable teenage character and one that will put off adult readers?

Firstly, just because it's an adult book doesn't mean it won't appeal to kids and young adults, who also read adult fiction. If anything, it's just as likely; many teenagers don't read YA at all, and stick to adult novels, because there's more choice.

As for the done well question... well, for me you've just got to write a good character. Adults were teens once, of course, and so they can relate to the struggles and pitfalls of being in that uncertain age. The only teenage character that will put off adult readers - or any readers in fact - is the one who's two dimensional, who's cliched, who's annoying. Just write a good character, and the rest will fall into place.

YA with Adult elements or Adult with YA elements?

StarryEyes

J.S.Fairey

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

victoriakmartin

Jo Zebedee

space opera-popcorn lover!

StarryEyes

rwm4768

practical experience, FTW

Vimes

vintagegirl

J.S.Fairey