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Ellora's Cave Publishing, Inc.

elindsen

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While I don't mind paying that for one of my favorite authors, I admit I won't for a newbie when the books are that short for that price. I'm cheap. But so are a lot of people. I think EC is taking themselves out of the equation when listing debuts at prices higher than everyone else.

I'm wondering about why Amazon is sinking for them. Both my self published and publisher books are doing the same as always on there. I'm not sure their claim about Amazon sales being low across the charts is totally accurate.
 

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I hope in light of this that anyone still considering subbing to EC is rethinking! I just wish the ship would sink immediately so I can get my rights back without an interminable wait.

My understanding is that the editing staff will now consist of two people, including Raelene, who has other duties. I've also heard that books will now only be getting a "light edit". Yikes.

The Amazon thing is baffling. I don't know of any other publishers or authors who have reported a drastic downturn in Amazon sales this summer. I call utter bullshit. I think the bottom line is that they are in the red and can't get out. It's only a matter of time.
 

Marian Perera

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I hope in light of this that anyone still considering subbing to EC is rethinking!

I did sub to EC earlier this year, but got a reply that their Blush imprint was closed to submissions. I'm working on a more erotic romance, but would not consider EC in the light of everything I've heard recently. The "light edit" part alone would make me run.

Best of luck with getting your rights back!
 

BBCAuthor

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You dodged a bullet, Queen of Swords! And thanks. :)

I can't see how the editing will be acceptable on future releases. All covers will also be done by "in-house" designers. Which I take to mean an admin or intern who knows how to use Photoshop. We shall see. I was already dead set against ever subbing to EC again, but this is certainly the nail in the coffin.

Oh, and I meant to say that yes, EC prices are way too high, IMO. Also, gotta love that the CEO says Jaid Black's new company "is in no way a publishing company," but Jaid herself recently said:

I've got a new book and a new publishing company coming your way within a couple weeks. Ellora's Cave is and will always be my baby, but I've got enough love in my heart to give her a sibling ;) More announcements will be coming soon, but suffice it to say the new press will be accepting all kinds of literature for publication, including non-fiction.
 
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veinglory

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They went through a period of not offering Amazon their standard discount which effectively doubled the price. I never heard how that was resolved.

IMHO if there is an industry-wide nosedive in Amazon sales this is the first I have heard of it.
 

VoireyLinger

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On the subject of prices, right now a lot of EC's books look reasonably priced because older books prices have been dropped by half. Any book published before 2012 has been or is being slated for a price cut. My 28K novella was over $5 on Amazon a month ago. It's $2.80 now.

I think EC has taken additional hits because of Amazon's adult search policies and the standard EC covers. Initially, all my books were listed under erotic, because that was EC's main selling point. I think mine were recategorized when the price was dropped because they're listed as romance now.

I always noted the desire to keep the covers PG-13 on my cover art forms, specifying no boob-grabbing, butt-cracks, side-boob or side-butt whenever possible. I also requested single characters on the cover. net result, my covers don't violate Amazon's new, more strict cover image rules. The same can't be said for a lot of EC's titles.

All of this aside, they have been showing signs of trouble for ever a year. Initially I stood back and waited to see what they would do. Everything, including the termination of the entire freelance staff, sounds like Band-aid fixes which aren't having any effect on the problems with sales and income.

I'm making the choice to abandon ship.
 

Marian Perera

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Also, gotta love that the CEO says Jaid Black's new company "is in no way a publishing company," but Jaid herself recently said:

Plus, a press which accepts "all kinds of literature for publication, including non-fiction" reminds me of Musa. Publish everything, and chances are there won't be enough resources to specialize in anything.
 

elindsen

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That's good to know the prices are dropping. I usually do all of my book buying on ARe. I did notice today that it looks like all EC books are on rebate. It could boost sales but I'm not sure that will help with the soon to be overloaded editors.
 

VoireyLinger

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Yes, new books will still be the higher pricing model. i know a few people nabbed some titles when the price dropped, but I haven't seen much action on Amazon. It's too early to see results from other sites.
 

HapiSofi

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A publisher whose sales are falling and who doesn't know why is unlikely to survive. Falling sales are hard enough to turn around when you do know why they're happening.
 

BenPanced

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There were grumblings at this year's and last's RT Booklovers Conventions about how they've been able to afford the HYOOGE publisher's parties and resultant giveaways when they haven't been able to pay royalties on time.
 

firedrake

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There were grumblings at this year's and last's RT Booklovers Conventions about how they've been able to afford the HYOOGE publisher's parties and resultant giveaways when they haven't been able to pay royalties on time.

Hmmm, that's a wee bit reminiscent of the Silver Publishing balls-up. The owner had spent royalty money on an author's retreat in the Smoky Mountains, and quite possibly on the RV he used to tour around the US visiting 'his' authors. And, quite possibly on the air fare when he buggered off back to South Africa a few months ago.
Not saying that's what's happened here, but it makes one think.
 

BarbaraSheridan

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I have no real idea of what goes on behind the scenes at EC but having been around since the Jurassic age of e-publishing, I can't help but wonder if the powers that be EC just assumed they'd always be the big fish in the e-book pond.
 

BenPanced

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Hmmm, that's a wee bit reminiscent of the Silver Publishing balls-up. The owner had spent royalty money on an author's retreat in the Smoky Mountains, and quite possibly on the RV he used to tour around the US visiting 'his' authors. And, quite possibly on the air fare when he buggered off back to South Africa a few months ago.
Not saying that's what's happened here, but it makes one think.
I wanted to post earlier but I didn't want it to look like I'm casting asparagus or spreading manure where none should be. After seeing the posts about the mass firing of most of the contracted editors and the questions about pricing on Amazon, it all just sounds a little hinky to me. Am I mistaken? I'll admit it and retract my post if I am.
 

shelleyo

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Recent articles have the owner of EC saying that a sudden drop in sales at Amazon are the big problem. But it doesn't take much searching to find that she's had tax liens against her, tens of thousands of dollars, since at least 2010. They get paid, apparently, and then new judgments appear later, but the government doesn't resort to a lien until taxes have gone unpaid for some time.

Just based on that, I'd assume poor financial management to be most of the problem, not Amazon's algorithms. The recent big push for a teen-mom/porn actress' book that tanked also seems to have been a poor financial move. The owner said there was no advance. Okay, but these flash-in-the-pan, pseudo-celebrities typically don't do anything they don't get paid for. I wouldn't in their shoes--they have to make hay while their five minutes of sun shine. But let's say there was no advance. They used company resources to create and push this book, time and resources that weren't spent on other books, and it's apparently not what people came to expect from EC.

I wouldn't submit there anytime soon, personally. Too many things going on, too many problems, too much that points to the possibility of going under. I hope it doesn't--EC is kind of the erotica ebook flagship--but the signs aren't good right now.
 

thethinker42

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EC is kind of the erotica ebook flagship

TBH, I don't think that's been the case for quite some time now. They certainly were a few years ago, but at least the last year, probably the last two, I've noticed a significant reduction in EC visibility. It was to the point that when someone posted a new EC cover on Facebook, it actually made me do a double take because I just... hadn't seen much of them. Seemed like they kept a much, MUCH lower profile at RT this year too.

Obviously that's just based on my own observations, so nothing scientific or written in blood, but there it is.
 

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TBH, I don't think that's been the case for quite some time now. They certainly were a few years ago, but at least the last year, probably the last two, I've noticed a significant reduction in EC visibility. It was to the point that when someone posted a new EC cover on Facebook, it actually made me do a double take because I just... hadn't seen much of them. Seemed like they kept a much, MUCH lower profile at RT this year too.

Obviously that's just based on my own observations, so nothing scientific or written in blood, but there it is.

I think they still have the reputation outside of the e-pub world, though. I've read several general business or even general publishing articles that cite EC as the industry leader. Those closer to the action feel differently, of course.
 

MandyHarbin

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Update... I got my rights back without incident to the latest one I requested back in February (they get 6 months to review and revert if qualifying per my contract). Kudos to them for staying professional even in the face of criticism. (**Criticism that is warranted, but still...)
 

alexaherself

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A publisher whose sales are falling and who doesn't know why is unlikely to survive. Falling sales are hard enough to turn around when you do know why they're happening.

This was exactly my feeling. (Not that I have anything for them, anyway, but I'd be extremely reluctant to submit there.)