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SDS Literary Agency / SDS Publishing

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victoriastrauss

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From reading Steve's responses, I have a feeling that the root issue here--notwithstanding his success in other areas of business--is that he simply doesn't have an adequate understanding of what a literary agent is or does. I think his intentions are good, but I suspect he started his business based on his own inaccurate ideas about publishing and agenting, rather than on the basis of solid knowledge or research.

- Victoria
 

herdon

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From reading Steve's responses, I have a feeling that the root issue here--notwithstanding his success in other areas of business--is that he simply doesn't have an adequate understanding of what a literary agent is or does. I think his intentions are good, but I suspect he started his business based on his own inaccurate ideas about publishing and agenting, rather than on the basis of solid knowledge or research.

- Victoria

Perhaps. But of course, that still remains a big red flag with the words "Go away. Quickly." written in a bold font.
 

LindaJeanne

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I think the forum practice of allowing quote replication is unfortunate, and can come across as rude, particularly when the quote is deliberately left incomplete.
If you feel any of my quotes were out-of-context in a way that mis-represented what you were talking about, please give me the specifics and I'll modify my post to quote you more accurately. It was not my intent to mis-represent you.

Whilst I think this site serves a very good purpose, I also find some of the contributors sarcastic, pompous and even arrogant, e.g. 'I just scored a bingo,' etc, amongst other crass remarks and swearwords.
I'm sorry that my "bingo" comment offended you. I had intended my post to come across as polite, but I'll admit, your accusations of libel seemed so over the top to me that I found it difficult not to comment on them.


2. I'm actually a very good businessman.

This is a very impressive track record, and nothing I asked was intended to bring call it into question. I have no doubt that you are and have been extremely successful.

My concerns arise because the publishing industry is a world unto itself. Many people who have been very successful in other areas of business have tried to enter the publishing industry. Unfortunately, most of those without publishing-industry-specific experience -- regardless of their success in other areas -- have fallen hard (sometimes taking their authors with them). The publishing industry is a world unto itself; it has been repeatedly (and sometimes painfully) demonstrated that a deep understanding of other areas of business and experience as an author doesn't adequately prepare one for being either an agent or a publisher.

If you turn out to be the exception to this all-to-common rule, then good on you. But I hope you can understand our well-intentioned concern.

At the end of the day, I do work very hard to promote my clients' work, and have had some early success with this business.
I do not doubt this, and I don't think anyone else here does either.


I wish you the best of luck with this endeavor.
 

James D. Macdonald

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4. The charge of poor editing shown here is complete tosh. I've now put clickable links to six extended examples of editing on the agency website. Do check them out, and the remainder of the novels and short stories on Amazon. You won't find a typo anywhere.

Like many other amateurs, Mr. Smith thinks "editing" means "finding typos."

While his experiences with a snooker club and IT consulting and such are laudable, as far as a background in publishing they spell Complete N00b.

I'm very sorry that he hasn't/isn't going to "read or reply to any posts made since my first visit." If he did he might learn something.
 

Panzypanz

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Bumping.

Anyone figure anything else out about this guy?

From the looks of it, I feel as if I wouldn't trust him with my pen.
 

JournoWriter

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Walk away quickly.

I know he's not coming back, but this just flummoxed me ...

I think the forum practice of allowing quote replication is unfortunate, and can come across as rude, particularly when the quote is deliberately left incomplete.

So he's against quoting?
 

waylander

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Still no evidence on the site of sales to advance-paying publishers.
 

CaoPaux

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Heck, despite notations of "currently considering feedback from [X] commissioning editors" most of the books are already published through his own SDS Publishing: http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/SteveStone. (Not to be confused with this SDS Publishing, which is a different self-publishing operation.)
 

AW Admin

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Admin note:

I'm not going to allow masked or truncated or shortened URLs from anyone. I'll be editing those URLs in this thread.

There's absolutely no reason to have masked or truncated or URLs on AW; use the link tool
createlink.gif
.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Since this thread bubbled up to the surface....


4. The charge of poor editing shown here is complete tosh. I've now put clickable links to six extended examples of editing on the agency website. Do check them out, and the remainder of the novels and short stories on Amazon. You won't find a typo anywhere.

The typo I highlighted in my post #9 above is still there on Amazon right now.
 

Steve Smith SDS

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Well, I'm forced to post here because of a lie by inference about my agency that came up in a Google search. Let's deal with that first, before moving on to some other things, including a discussion on liars and cowards.

The lie was an inference made in association with 'a check with the British Government' that revealed no details about my agency. Well, the history of this is as follows. I opened a self-proprietary company some years ago called 'SDS Finance'. It was essentially the financial back end of a snooker club I once owned (the finance company also dabbled in some other more minor business interests), but sold just before the recession began, all accounting and tax-related business going through the name of the snooker club via my accountant. After I sold the snooker club, SDS Finance became dormant until I opened the literary agency. It remained a self-proprietary business, and I declared it for the purpose of gaining a British Government grant through the Department for Work and Pensions, via an agreed business plan with them. Of course the person who 'checked' it with the Government couldn't find anything, because the Department for Work and Pensions aren't going to hand out information to just anyone. As the agency subsequently expanded, I extended SDS Finance to a Limited Company called 'SDS Finance Ltd', and it is the financial back end of the literary agency, subject to Corporation Tax returns. It's registered in England and Wales, see under 'Contact' on my website http://sdsliteraryagency.azurewebsites.net/. Not that the way I run and conduct my business is any of your concern.

It would be nice to receive an apology from the person concerned to my Email address [email protected], since through the audit trail provided by the Department for Work and Pensions, and through the Limited Company beyond, I've always honestly conducted what is a pretty successful business venture. The unfortunate truth is whilst this website does provide what is in principle a valid voice for writers, the way many conduct themselves on here is beyond forgiveness. I checked a few other threads on this website, just to prove I was right. There are some nice people on here for sure, constructive in their arguments, but all too often, it degenerates into a slag-fest; if the tone isn't offensive, it's mickey-taking, sarcastic, arrogant or pompous, or based on text that's deliberately misquoted to score a cheap point. As one other agent points out in another thread, such behaviour is completely unacceptable when you're talking about hard-working people. And for these reasons, I didn't bother looking through the posts here, before scrolling down to where I could post. It's also unfortunately true that many writers posting on this website are liars or cowards;

Liars - I spent an afternoon checking out nine writers who claimed to be 'published'. None were. Ask any reputable agent or publisher - you're only in the club of published writers if 1) You have a deal with a paper (not electronic only) publishing house that markets and distributes physical copies of your book to physical bookshops on the streets, and 2) You get an advance payment on potential future royalties at the point the deal is made, i.e. before copies of your book are created through a print run, and go out to bookshops. I'm afraid the nine 'published' writers I checked were with electronic publishers (some 'vanity' or 'subsidy' 'publishers' where you pay them to publish your book), hard copies of their books only available via print-on-demand (which includes via Amazon CreateSpace), not available in physical bookshops. Out of curiosity, I also checked out a so-called 'publishing guru' - he wasn't published either. And I finally checked out a guy who claimed tens of thousands of dollars in monthly sales of his book - he wasn't published either, was with a print-on-demand electronic publisher, his book hadn't sold a single copy on Amazon because he had no sales rankings or sales rating (e.g. 180,789 bestseller on Amazon), and the writing in his Amazon sample was awful. Funny isn't it that 11 out of 11 people I checked out from this website all lied about being published, yet spouted misguided opinions anyway. Many frustrated and bitter writers of course claim to be published because they think it improves their chances with agents and publishers - but any reputable agent or publisher will see straight through them for the liars they are. And have a little think - if a writer had an agent or paper (true) publisher, i.e. opinion-worthy credentials, why on Earth would they be on here, a site where people look for agents and publishers?

Cowards - you'll find my trading address on my website. I'm not hard to find. Knock my door anytime, or send someone else on your behalf. But the people that post unsubstantiated comments, offensive comments, sarcastic comments, mickey-taking comments, or arrogant or pompous comments here won't knock my door or make an appointment, or reveal their home address, because the internet allows them to say what they want, and hide like cowards behind their machines. One of the reasons I didn't bother to read through items on this thread is that there's no point in arguing with them, because you can never get the last word with trolls and cowards.

So perhaps I could ask that you don't post filth or criticism against my agency unless you're willing to send your home address to my Email address. Then based on what you say, I can decide whether to prosecute you, or arrange a friendly visit to your premises. It's cowardly to hide behind a machine - I don't do it.

Here are some other items of information;

Website - it's MS Azure, I pay for it. It's probably the most informative agency website around, and there isn't one lie on it. To my knowledge, there aren't any typos on it either. It's had plenty of praise from several genuine IT gurus who follow me on Twitter. Also, my client Louis Dempsey (who appeared with Brad Pitt in 'Troy' (2004), appeared in Revolver (2005), Holby City (2013), and wrote and starred in Shooters (2002) - have any of you done anything like that?) promotes my agency and its website around the UK. Go ahead, give him a call, except the cowards amongst you won't, you'll just go on hiding behind your machines.

Editing - 69 edits now - no complaints, only praise, and quite a lot of repeat business. One edited novel gained the prestigious #1 Gold Award on Harper Collins Authonomy website - is that good enough for you? Jon Watt, commissioning editor of Quercus (London) praised my editing of 'A Cold Night in June' by Sergeant Rob Lofthouse at a meeting - is that good enough for you? How many paper publishing house commissioning editors have you met? Probably none, because the very large majority will only arrange meetings via agents, not wanting to talk to agentless authors direct. Book an appointment with me anytime via my Email address, and I'll show you the filed 500+ responses I've got from commissioning editors on client books; publishers from Simon & Schuster right down to small independents. And go ahead, give Jon a call. But I expect the cowards amongst you will continue hiding behind your machines.

Sure, SDS Literary Agency is a small agency. But at least it can get writers' material in front of regular and communicative commissioning editor contacts at paper publishing houses. If you don't like the agency, then fine, go elsewhere, but the chances are your writing isn't good or marketable enough to get an agency to represent your work. I get about 120 submissions a month, and although I accept less than 1% of submissions, I reply with at least one paragraph to every single one, often in the evenings. I can tell you that over 90% of novels are not written well enough and/or are not marketable enough, lacking mass market potential. Of the remaining 10%, 9 out of 10 are interesting but aren't up to it. And of the remaining 1%, only 1 or 2 out of 10 will ultimately achieve paper (true) publication to bookshops. The sad truth is that post-recession, publishers only tend to publish writers with a proven sales track record, or writers that are celebrities. Many publishers went out of business or were forcefully merged during the recession, and most won't gamble on first-time writers with no previous paper (true) publication history, a situation made worse in the UK by Waterstones' decision not to stock first-time writers in their bookshops from December 2013 - they've had their fingers burnt too many times. So first-time writer work has to be absolutely outstanding to have a chance of publication, but remember this - SDS Literary Agency, or indeed any other reputable agency, will tirelessly attempt to promote your work at no cost to you - if you can make a convincing case for representation. I'm making money out of the agency whilst many have closed their doors, and several of my writers are making money too, two making thousands (£GBP sterling) from 85% of their sales.
 

victoriastrauss

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Mr. Smith, can you name any of your clients' books that have gotten beyond the "expression of interest stage" to an actual publication contract with an advance-paying publisher?

I find it interesting, by the way, that you dismiss writers who are "with electronic publishers (some 'vanity' or 'subsidy' 'publishers' where you pay them to publish your book), hard copies of their books only available via print-on-demand (which includes via Amazon CreateSpace), not available in physical bookshops" when your own publishing operation, SDS Publishing, is exactly that.

Thank you.

- Victoria
 

Steve Smith SDS

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Oh, my goodness. Even technically correct prose can be clunky. I've seen worse, but I've seen far, far better.

Of course we don't know what the original work was like before it was edited. Nor do we know how much the author stetted. But some things ...

sample.jpg


Yes, typos happen. But relying on Word's spell-and-grammar check function for your editing will not produce a well-edited work, for all that folks who have themselves never been edited think that all editors do is check grammar and spelling.
Good spot, thanks. It was originally corrected in the second book in this series, but not the third. It wouldn't show up in a spellcheck, because 'defuse' and 'diffuse' are both valid. Not that I only rely on spell and grammar check for any of the 69 works edited by the agency. That's a lie, so don't spout it. All works are meticulously proofread, but I concede that on this occasion, my stupidity prevented me from correcting this error in both the second and third books. The error is corrected now, the book concerned just uploaded to Amazon again. Is this really the best you can do in highlighting errors? I doubt you'll find another across the agency website, or any edited material.
 

waylander

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Sure, SDS Literary Agency is a small agency. But at least it can get writers' material in front of regular and communicative commissioning editor contacts at paper publishing houses. If you don't like the agency, then fine, go elsewhere, but the chances are your writing isn't good or marketable enough to get an agency to represent your work. I get about 120 submissions a month, and although I accept less than 1% of submissions, I reply with at least one paragraph to every single one, often in the evenings. I can tell you that over 90% of novels are not written well enough and/or are not marketable enough, lacking mass market potential. Of the remaining 10%, 9 out of 10 are interesting but aren't up to it. And of the remaining 1%, only 1 or 2 out of 10 will ultimately achieve paper (true) publication to bookshops. The sad truth is that post-recession, publishers only tend to publish writers with a proven sales track record, or writers that are celebrities. Many publishers went out of business or were forcefully merged during the recession, and most won't gamble on first-time writers with no previous paper (true) publication history, a situation made worse in the UK by Waterstones' decision not to stock first-time writers in their bookshops from December 2013 - they've had their fingers burnt too many times. So first-time writer work has to be absolutely outstanding to have a chance of publication, but remember this - SDS Literary Agency, or indeed any other reputable agency, will tirelessly attempt to promote your work at no cost to you - if you can make a convincing case for representation. I'm making money out of the agency whilst many have closed their doors, and several of my writers are making money too, two making thousands (£GBP sterling) from 85% of their sales.

I know several writers in my writing group who have signed with major UK publishers in the past 3 years. I've seen their books in Waterstones. I'm not aware of a change in Waterstone's policy in respect of 1st time authors - do you have a citation for that?

I've spoken to 5 commisioning editors in the last month.

And by the way; I'm represented by Shiel Land Associates of London.
 
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amergina

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Ten books in (four with Samhain Publishing, six with Carina Press) and I'm not "published" in your eyes?

Dang...

;)

Well, I suppose I'm not published, either. Which might come as a surprise to my agent and latest publisher (Penguin). Especially since I did get a reasonable advance on my digital first title. Ah well, I'll weep into my check.
 
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HapiSofi

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Well, I'm forced to post here because of a lie by inference about my agency that came up in a Google search. Let's deal with that first, before moving on to some other things, including a discussion on liars and cowards.
That was enough to send you into a towering snit? I'm having trouble seeing you as a real agent.
The lie was an inference made in association with 'a check with the British Government' that revealed no details about my agency. Well, the history of this is as follows. I opened a self-proprietary company some years ago called 'SDS Finance'. It was essentially the financial back end of a snooker club I once owned (the finance company also dabbled in some other more minor business interests), but sold just before the recession began, all accounting and tax-related business going through the name of the snooker club via my accountant. After I sold the snooker club, SDS Finance became dormant until I opened the literary agency.
All of which is irrelevant to this discussion.
It remained a self-proprietary business, and I declared it for the purpose of gaining a British Government grant through the Department for Work and Pensions, via an agreed business plan with them.
The Department for Work and Pensions doesn't know jack about running a literary agency.

Neither do you.
Of course the person who 'checked' it with the Government couldn't find anything, because the Department for Work and Pensions aren't going to hand out information to just anyone. As the agency subsequently expanded, I extended SDS Finance to a Limited Company called 'SDS Finance Ltd', and it is the financial back end of the literary agency, subject to Corporation Tax returns. It's registered in England and Wales, see under 'Contact' on my website http://sdsliteraryagency.azurewebsites.net/. Not that the way I run and conduct my business is any of your concern.
The way self-proclaimed literary agents run and conduct their agencies is unquestionably our concern. In fact, it's one of our largest concerns.
It would be nice to receive an apology from the person concerned to my Email address [email protected], since through the audit trail provided by the Department for Work and Pensions, and through the Limited Company beyond, I've always honestly conducted what is a pretty successful business venture.
The unimpeachable Victoria Strauss isn't aware of any commercial sales you've made to publishers. If your "literary agency" is a successful business venture, it can only be making money off your authors.

This is not cause to praise you.
The unfortunate truth is whilst this website does provide what is in principle a valid voice for writers, the way many conduct themselves on here is beyond forgiveness.
We aren't discussing theology. If we were, I'd disagree with that.
I checked a few other threads on this website, just to prove I was right.
Most people read them for information.
There are some nice people on here for sure, constructive in their arguments, but all too often, it degenerates into a slag-fest; if the tone isn't offensive, it's mickey-taking, sarcastic, arrogant or pompous, or based on text that's deliberately misquoted to score a cheap point.
To reiterate an earlier point: if AW's discourse shocks you, I have real trouble believing you're a real agent.
As one other agent points out in another thread,
Proper cite?
such behaviour is completely unacceptable when you're talking about hard-working people.
Nope.
And for these reasons, I didn't bother looking through the posts here, before scrolling down to where I could post.
Coward. Slacker. Fake.
It's also unfortunately true that many writers posting on this website are liars or cowards.
You can't know that if you didn't read it.

By the way: many of these people know a lot more about publishing than you do.
Liars - I spent an afternoon checking out nine writers
Please cite the authors, how you determined their real names, and the resources you used to check them.
who claimed to be 'published'. None were.
Assuming that's true -- and you've yet to meet minimal standards for being believed -- it says nothing about the credentials or credibility of the people who've commented on your agenting career. In fact, this thread is full of professionals.
Ask any reputable agent or publisher - you're only in the club of published writers if 1) You have a deal with a paper (not electronic only) publishing house that markets and distributes physical copies of your book to physical bookshops on the streets, and 2) You get an advance payment on potential future royalties at the point the deal is made, i.e. before copies of your book are created through a print run, and go out to bookshops.
Victoria can't find any evidence of your having made such deals on behalf of your clients. Can you please cite some?
I'm afraid the nine 'published' writers I checked were with electronic publishers (some 'vanity' or 'subsidy' 'publishers' where you pay them to publish your book), hard copies of their books only available via print-on-demand (which includes via Amazon CreateSpace), not available in physical bookshops.
Of course they're here. Who needs reliable information about publishing more than they do?

Again: denouncing them doesn't discredit your critics on this board.
Out of curiosity, I also checked out a so-called 'publishing guru' - he wasn't published either.
AW has given rise to plenty of commentary about "publishing experts" who aren't. IIRC, you can find some of it in the FAQ, which you've apparently skipped reading just like you did this thread.
And I finally checked out a guy who claimed tens of thousands of dollars in monthly sales of his book - he wasn't published either, was with a print-on-demand electronic publisher, his book hadn't sold a single copy on Amazon because he had no sales rankings or sales rating (e.g. 180,789 bestseller on Amazon), and the writing in his Amazon sample was awful.
Lots of those around. You must not know much about the state of the discourse if you think that's a revelation.
Funny isn't it that 11 out of 11 people I checked out from this website
Everyone who's taken Intro to Statistical Methods is now laughing at you.
all lied about being published, yet spouted misguided opinions anyway.
Add "the internet" to the list of subjects you aren't acquainted with.
Many frustrated and bitter writers of course claim to be published
Oh, for pete's sake. Film at eleven, guy.
because they think it improves their chances with agents and publishers - but any reputable agent or publisher will see straight through them for the liars they are.
Big deal. The subject here is people in the industry seeing through you.
And have a little think - if a writer had an agent or paper (true) publisher, i.e. opinion-worthy credentials, why on Earth would they be on here, a site where people look for agents and publishers?
So very wrong. One of the perils of not reading the site is not knowing what gets discussed here.
Cowards - you'll find my trading address on my website.
We don't give a damn about your trading address. We care about your activities as a literary agent.
I'm not hard to find. Knock my door anytime, or send someone else on your behalf. But the people that post unsubstantiated comments, offensive comments, sarcastic comments, mickey-taking comments, or arrogant or pompous comments here won't knock my door or make an appointment, or reveal their home address, because the internet allows them to say what they want, and hide like cowards behind their machines.
What a lot of noise and fuss you're making. You wouldn't by any chance be trying to distract everyone from the question of your credentials as a literary agent? You'd do better to spend your energy on that.

For the record, I'm an editor at a Big Five NYC publishing house. I participate pseudonymously at AW because I can say more things, and more useful things, if I'm not here in persona as a known editor from a known house.
One of the reasons I didn't bother to read through items on this thread is that there's no point in arguing with them,
That's not the excuse you previously gave for not reading the thread. This seems inconsistent.
because you can never get the last word with trolls and cowards.
Failing to read the thread won't get you the last word with anyone. However, reading it is essential if your ambition is to have a rational conversation like a real human being.
So perhaps I could ask that you don't post filth or criticism
Oh, stuff it. No one's posted filth, and the criticism of you has been valid.

Speaking of which: can you please tell us about actual publishing deals you've made on behalf of your clients?
against my agency unless you're willing to send your home address to my Email address. Then based on what you say, I can decide whether to prosecute you, or arrange a friendly visit to your premises. It's cowardly to hide behind a machine - I don't do it.

I am my words. I'm sorry the same isn't true of you.
Here are some other items of information

Website - it's MS Azure, I pay for it. It's probably the most informative agency website around, and there isn't one lie on it. To my knowledge, there aren't any typos on it either. It's had plenty of praise from several genuine IT gurus who follow me on Twitter. Also, my client Louis Dempsey (who appeared with Brad Pitt in 'Troy' (2004), appeared in Revolver (2005), Holby City (2013), and wrote and starred in Shooters (2002) - have any of you done anything like that?) promotes my agency and its website around the UK. Go ahead, give him a call, except the cowards amongst you won't, you'll just go on hiding behind your machines.
Not a syllable of that is pertinent to the discussion of your credentials, or the accomplishments of your agency.
Editing - 69 edits now - no complaints, only praise, and quite a lot of repeat business.
So?
One edited novel gained the prestigious #1 Gold Award on Harper Collins Authonomy website - is that good enough for you?
No. I'm a real editor.
Jon Watt, commissioning editor of Quercus (London) praised my editing of 'A Cold Night in June' by Sergeant Rob Lofthouse at a meeting -
Got a transcript? You may not care about context, but the rest of us aren't so indiscriminate.
is that good enough for you? How many paper publishing house commissioning editors have you met?
More than you have.
Probably none, because the very large majority will only arrange meetings via agents, not wanting to talk to agentless authors direct.
You really don't know much about my tribe.
Book an appointment with me anytime via my Email address, and I'll show you the filed 500+ responses I've got from commissioning editors on client books; publishers from Simon & Schuster right down to small independents.
Anyone can collect a stack of those responses. The trick is to accumulate commercial contracts on behalf of your clients. How are you doing on that front?
And go ahead, give Jon a call. But I expect the cowards amongst you will continue hiding behind your machines.
-- he said, posting it to an online forum.
Sure, SDS Literary Agency is a small agency. But at least it can get writers' material in front of regular and communicative commissioning editor contacts at paper publishing houses.
Like me, you mean? It's dead easy to get material in front of editors for a few seconds.
If you don't like the agency, then fine, go elsewhere,
This conversation isn't about like/don't like. It's about advisable/inadvisable, and your credentials and track record.
but the chances are your writing isn't good or marketable enough to get an agency to represent your work.
Blaming the authors now? That's shabby.
I get about 120 submissions a month,
That's easy too.
and although I accept less than 1% of submissions,
No, no, no. You're pretending to be an agent, not an acquiring editor. You don't accept submissions. You accept clients.
I reply with at least one paragraph to every single one, often in the evenings. I can tell you that over 90% of novels are not written well enough and/or are not marketable enough, lacking mass market potential. Of the remaining 10%, 9 out of 10 are interesting but aren't up to it. And of the remaining 1%, only 1 or 2 out of 10 will ultimately achieve paper (true) publication to bookshops.
Tsk. You should have read more of the site. You should also work harder on your publishing industry lingo -- you don't get it right.
The sad truth is that post-recession, publishers only tend to publish writers with a proven sales track record, or writers that are celebrities. Many publishers went out of business or were forcefully merged during the recession, and most won't gamble on first-time writers with no previous paper (true) publication history,
Here's the point where we become certain that you're peddling BS. That passage is a dead-standard collection of the nonsense about publishing that circulates among the internet's wanna-bes and never-wozzers.

Have fun with your machine.
a situation made worse in the UK by Waterstones' decision not to stock first-time writers in their bookshops from December 2013 - they've had their fingers burnt too many times.
Such a shame that bookstores lose money on copies that don't sell, wouldn't you say?
So first-time writer work has to be absolutely outstanding to have a chance of publication,
Yes. That's always true.
but remember this - SDS Literary Agency, or indeed any other reputable agency, will tirelessly attempt to promote your work at no cost to you -
No. You sell your clients' work. You don't promote it. Wrong medicine lodge.
if you can make a convincing case for representation. I'm making money out of the agency whilst many have closed their doors, and several of my writers are making money too, two making thousands (£GBP sterling) from 85% of their sales.
You ought not be making any money except from commercial deals you make on behalf of your clients.

Get it right.
 
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Aggy B.

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This reminds me of the tirade in the Martin Brown thread.

Aggy, whose agent doesn't make money until she does
 

Filigree

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This has been entertaining and sad.

By the way, I am one of those 'not-published' digital authors. I also have an agent for my mainstream science fiction, and she has sold works for major authors. I'm small potatoes, but some of my fellow digital-first authors are making serious money.
 

Mac H.

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Steve - this is my final entry in this conversation.

I am confident that, as a writer who is familiar with subtext, you will be very familiar with how your statement above is likely to be interpreted:

"So perhaps I could ask that you don't post filth or criticism against my agency unless you're willing to send your home address to my Email address. Then based on what you say, I can decide whether to prosecute you, or arrange a friendly visit to your premises."

As a careful writer I can only assume that your meaning was intentional.

I do not consider myself a coward - but as someone who is posting here under his real name it is only reasonable for the sake of my family that I bow out of this conversation before you respond to my criticism by arranging 'a friendly visit to my premises'.

I suggest that others consider doing the same.

-- Mac
 
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Steve Smith SDS

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Well, I'm forced again to post on this website. I've had three sleepless nights over the nature of the content here. Many other threads on this website have the same arrogant tone or worse, against hard-working people. My wife is disabled, and the arrogance of tone (and pack of lies) on this website has twice upset her. I never tell lies, so I told her the truth about why I'm so upset - the tone used by you lot, your un-researched un-polite filth. Just in case you don't believe me about my wife, our GP is Old Town Surgery, Swindon 616057. My wife, who's only 53, holds a nominal administrative role with my agency, and her hobby is looking after rescue cats, because it makes her happy. She has one full metal knee replacement, will need another in the foreseeable future, has a ruptured Achilles tendon (still weak following surgery), and arthritis (which is the general underlying problem) in one wrist. Her current mobility is limited. Her probable long-term prognosis is life in a wheelchair. I look after her. She knows how hard I work. If you book an appointment at my agency premises by emailing [email protected] (and see 'Contact' under my website http://sdsliteraryagency.azurewebsites.net/), I'll introduce you to her, and I'll take you up our local surgery, introduce you to the medical team up there (although the main players are surgeons and consultants at the local hospital), but you won't book an appointment for any reason, of course, because cowards hide behind machines, and don't reveal their home addresses (my contact details are on my website for all to see).

One point here is the 'SDS Finance doesn't exist in a British Government check' thing, therefore by inference the agency is some sort of fraud, or I am. I'm now forced to go to a low level of detail to answer that issue properly, and I shouldn't really have to. Someone has shown a print on here saying 'SDS Finance' was dissolved. Well, my 'SDS Finance' couldn't have possibly been dissolved, because as a self-proprietary business, I was never under any obligation to register it, and it was indeed never registered, so it cannot therefore have been dissolved. I owned a snooker club, which I sold before the recession began. The original purpose of 'SDS Finance' was to act as a holding company of sorts; to allow money generated by 8-ball pool tables, 9-ball pool tables and snooker tables to be represented in a particular way, offset by associated costs, so that those streams of revenue could subsequently be treated in a particular way within the accounts of the snooker club, which were created by my accountant, and subsequently accepted by the Inland Revenue. The 'offset' set-up meant that despite 'SDS Finance' having money continually flowing through its bank account, it could never make an annual penny of profit or an annual penny of loss, so I was never under any obligation to register the self-proprietary company, all revenues already shown through the accounts of the snooker club, so 'SDS Finance' was never registered. For the record, the person I sold the snooker club to quickly built up five-figure debts in the recession. The club closed in February 2010, and it's strongly rumoured he was forced to go bankrupt. So I turned a loss-making concern into a profitable one, and emerged with nice profit overall, showing excellent business judgement by selling just before the recession. The same excellent business judgement that previously saw me choose to retire from mainstream employment at age 42 after a running a glittering IT consultancy, me spending 12 years working as a contract PRINCE2 Project Manager in the public and private sectors. Anyway, 'SDS Finance' was never registered after its creation for use in connection with the snooker club. And still a self-proprietary business, it wasn't registered when I declared it to the Department of Work and Pensions as part of a business plan to secure a Government grant for the literary agency. But because I started making money straightaway on the literary agency, and because I chose to use 'SDS Finance' to govern the agency financially, there was all of a sudden a requirement to register it as a self-proprietary business by a certain deadline. My response was to instead make it into a Limited Company, and as you can see under 'Contact' on my website, 'SDS Finance Limited' is registered in England and Wales, Registration Number 8781922. So to sum up on this point (although the set-up of my businesses is none of your concern), my SDS Finance was never registered as a business, so cannot have been dissolved. The 'dissolved' print shown on this website looks genuine, the same format as most company records at Companies House, so the only possible explanation is that someone other than me registered a business called 'SDS Finance', which they subsequently dissolved. The only point that matters is that the point raised on this website about 'after a check with the Government, the business doesn't exist, so is a fraud' is incorrect - my 'SDS Finance' couldn't possibly have been dissolved because it was never registered, the Limited Company standing proud from a point in the recent past. So the person who raised the point, showed the print on here got it wrong, just posted without researching, basing their spiteful and slanderous comments on a supposed name match. So to you, the person who got it wrong, the precise set up of my businesses is none of your concern, but I've answered your question anyway. Did you enjoy upsetting a disabled person? As you haven't Emailed me your home address, you are just a spineless coward that hides behind a machine, spouting your un-researched lies, which upsets my family and makes my honest business look bad. I'm bloody angry that you upset my wife, and that goes for all of you that upset her with your clever little sarcastic comments, or lies, or arrogant, pompous or bombastic tones. And you, the one who made a false and damaging statement about my business, a statement that upset a disabled person, I think you should retract (or have retracted) all posts on that subject. I think you should Email an apology to me, because you are proven wrong. Actually, under new internet laws in Britain, I could easily prosecute you or indeed any person on here that makes a slanderous or libellous or even offensive statement - the new laws aren't yet in America, but Obama agrees with Davis Cameron's stand against internet cowards, to the point that Obama didn't oppose the extradition of three people who are now in jail in Britain, along with quite a few similar offenders from the UK. Withy King (Swindon and Bath) are my solicitor, funny enough the same solicitor I used for the snooker club and the involvement of 'SDS Finance' there, and did you know that because your IP address is irrevocably associated with each and every post you make on the internet, your home address can now be derived from it under force of law, the unique signal of your IP address being track-able back through historical satellite data to reveal the precise location of your machine, including its movements if any?

Alright, let's move on. My website, which I pay for - http://sdsliteraryagency.azurewebsites.net/. What's wrong with it? Where's any imperfectly edited material?

Editing. 69 edits now. Nice money, no complaints from any one-off or repeat client. The person who picked up the 'diffuse' versus 'defuse' point did so from the third novel in the series, so he must have ploughed through the material for that novel and the other two novels before picking up the error. A lot of checking to pick up one rather petty typo. But the person's inference that agency editing is only based on spellcheck is a lie - this error was picked up from the second novel, during the proofread of the series of three novels after editing. It was my stupid fault that I was so busy at the time, I didn't act on the pointer that the same error also existed at two points in the third novel. So I'll hold my hands up to that one. I agree, by the way, that the paragraph in question is a bit clunky, but editing isn't going to change writing style - if it did, it wouldn't be the author's work any more. As a matter of fact, the 'Intrepid' series has some interesting feedback from commissioning editors at publishing houses. Three instances of feedback were closely matched - the premise is interesting, the series is well written, but there's too much technical detail about the space shuttle in the first book, compromising mass market potential. Funny thing is, just over 5,000 words of technical detail was stripped out of the first novel before the series was sent to commissioning editors, but now a further 5,000 - 6,000 words of the first novel need to come out, taking it down to about 100,000 words, after the three commissioning editors concerned agreed to assess a rewrite without most of the technical stuff.

And finally, what's all this about me not understanding the publishing business? Where's the evidence for that? Is it just because I never worked in it before starting the agency? That's no reason, just a pompous opinion that someone new can't succeed, an opinion with no basis in fact or evidence. All unpublished writers (the very large majority of people on this website, including 11 I checked out who falsely claimed to be published) are aiming to succeed without having ever succeeded in the area before - should they all give up, then? Not having done it before didn't stop me from making a lossmaking town centre snooker club into a successful one, before I knew the oncoming recession meant it was time to sell. Not having done it before didn't stop me running or working on IT projects at 22 clients in 6 industrial sectors, every single project a success on time, budget and success criteria grounds. At the end of the day, a literary agency is just a procurement exercise, like the OJEU procurement I oversaw in IT, the G-CAT procurement I oversaw in IT, and all the other less formal procurements I oversaw or worked on; you get the material (the less than 1% of incoming writer submissions that are good enough or close to being good enough), you sell the material (books to paper publishing houses, screenplays to film production companies, helping a few authors to self-publish on Amazon on a paid commission basis if they want that), and if there's more than one taker, you hold an auction between them, there being no auction if there's one or no takers. You can read all about such auctions in the Bookseller, and the film industry magazines. Monetary sums changing hands are sometimes not disclosed, sometimes the deals themselves are not disclosed, not everybody wanting to bear their souls to be scrutinised by the likes of you lot. I've scoured internet listings (including five very lengthy ones), taking four years to build up a consolidated computerised database by genre and country of named and researched commissioning editors and film producers with personal contact details. The database even includes Brad Fuller's (Platinum Dunes) cell phone number, which he's used to reject three of my client scripts to date, with incredibly lovely, polite and detailed text messages. There are no generic company-level contacts ('info', etc.) in the database - they're generally a waste of time, never looked at, swamped with thousands of communications. Yes, I used my IT skills to reverse-engineer quite a few commissioning editor and film producer Email addresses; good business, and all done in a legal way. Email is the way forward - the world's two largest publishing houses now only accept Email submissions (I've got responsive contacts covering multiple genres at both), as do an ever-increasing number of publishing houses large and small. Most publishing houses that still accept paper submissions will accept Email submissions from agents, but very rarely writers. You'd be surprised at the very large number of commissioning editors that click through and look at my website, then talk to me about a client book, eventually in detail. Like most agents, I'll pick an average of 7-12 commissioning editors for each client book, although my commissioning editor lists would probably be more extensive than most, because of the reverse engineering. It's rare that I'd submit a book to less than 7 or more than 12 commissioning editors. I can assure you that in the unlikely event I choose to represent your book, it will make the desks of suitable paper publishing house commissioning editors. Your book will be submitted with a professional tagline and synopsis, which I would generally write (most writer efforts on both counts are pretty poor in terms of selling). I can also assure you that a commissioning editor that likes your book will start a process aimed at buying it, but more often than not, publication decisions are made by peer-based committees of commissioning editors, with sales force representative(s) that would have to be very positive about their perceived ability to sell a book to bookshop chains before the committee would proceed - and that's going to be difficult in the UK, as only six significant chains remain in the UK after the recession, two of which are in administration, Waterstones (the largest chain) now having closed its shelves permanently to first-time writers, because of badly-selling debut book after badly-selling debut book. Most of the knowledge I have was gained by meeting or otherwise communicating with a lot of commissioning editors in London - book an appointment at my premises to view the file of contacts and communications. Okay, so having read this paragraph and the one above it, tell me why I don't understand the publishing industry.

Let's begin to wind this post up. But just to let you know, I did get some interesting feedback on unpublished (first-time writers) from one commissioning editor. He said (not verbatim) 'Don't ever bother listening to unpublished writers. They don't know what they're talking about. Their books almost certainly won't sell, that's why we want the filter of an agent before even briefly looking at their material.' So let's think about that for a moment. This website is full of unpublished writers looking for agents and publishers, right? You'll remember that I randomly checked out 11 writers on this website that claimed to be published. None had deals with paper publishing houses where they had advance payment on royalties, and distribution of physical copies of their books to physical bookshops, so none of them were truly published, many being 'vanity' or 'subsidy' published, where you pay them to publish your book; all 11 were all liars, pretending to be published when they weren't, some of their spiteful or arrogant commentary joining the rest of the cowards who hide behind their machines. And I can tell you that the commissioning editor I paraphrase above is by no means in a minority of one in thinking that unpublished writers aren't worth listening to, their material generally not worth the effort of looking at. Oh, and wait a minute; commissioning editors are the only gurus in the publishing industry that matter, the only ones that can offer a deal on your book, right? And those very editors say that unpublished writers aren't worth listening to. So as this website is a voice for unpublished writers who are looking for agents and publishers, it would appear that none of you are worth listening to, your opinions inconsequential to the only figures in the publishing industry that really count in success terms. Is that right? I wouldn't say it was the case for all of you on this website, but its certainly true for a lot of you. And should this website be closed down, because it allows unsubstantiated arrogant opinion that could potentially damage the businesses of hardworking and honest business people? Probably not, but I think the sponsors should be alerted to the libellous, scandalous and less than polite content that's scattered around far too many of the threads on this website. The libellous, slanderous and less than polite content levelled against my agency has actually pushed me to be less than polite.

So I'll tell you what. If you're a published or unpublished writer that wants representation, and a good tagline, synopsis and pitch placed in front of targeted commissioning editors that might buy your sort of book if its good enough, then I'd love to hear from you at my Email address above.

It costs nothing to be nice and polite. So if you're anything less than that, you can piss off, no one cares about you or what you're saying.

And if you're a troll, or someone that enjoys being arrogant, mickey-taking, sarcastic, pompous or offensive, you can piss off, no one cares about you or what you're saying.

You shouldn't post anything that's critical, or even a little less than polite, if you aren't willing to make your home address known, because if you don't want to do that, then you're a spineless, gutless coward who should piss off, because nobody cares about you or what you're saying.

And if you're someone who enjoys upsetting disabled people, you should piss off, because nobody cares about you or what you're saying.

Yes, the agency is small. But you're free to try elsewhere if you want to, although over 99% of manuscripts aren't good enough to have a realistic chance of publication through any agent, which is part of the reason for over two-thirds of agents going out of business during the recession.
 

Aggy B.

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Where exactly did you get this definition of "really published" from? As has already been pointed out, there are Big 5 imprints that don't do "real paper books" and would doubtless be a little miffed to hear you dismissing their work as "not really published".

I already have an agent. (And work coming out in honest to goodness paper books.) But even if I didn't, I'm afraid you don't strike me as the sort of professional I'd want handling my books.
 

eqb

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You shouldn't post anything that's critical, or even a little less than polite, if you aren't willing to make your home address known, because if you don't want to do that, then you're a spineless, gutless coward who should piss off, because nobody cares about you or what you're saying.

Given your comment earlier that you would "arrange a friendly visit to your premises," I won't be giving you my home address. However...

I am a published writer. I'm also an experienced web developer. Both your editing and your website design need work, I'm sorry to say, and based on your comments here, I'd be reluctant to recommend you as an agent to anyone.
 

Marian Perera

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So I'll tell you what. If you're a published or unpublished writer that wants representation

This should be "who wants representation".

As for the rest of your rant, I skimmed it, was reminded of Dorothy Deering, and would not recommend your services in any capacity to anyone. Feel free to try to get me extradited from Canada for that.
 
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