Mainstream appeal of LGBT MC?

The_Snow_Girl · Oct 7, 2014

Hello all,

I was just wondering - how excited would you be about a main character who is a lesbian? About a romance between two girls? But in a book that is not contemp fic, and where the LGBT themes are not the main issue.

My book follows all the norms of a typical mainstream/dystopian YA novel (action, kickass heroine, etc), right down to the romance that develops between the main character and a royal. The difference being, obviously, that both my MC and love interest are girls.

I just want to reiterate that other than the gender of my love interest, my YA novel does not differ unreasonably from any other YA mainstream novel. In the story the lesbian relationship is not a source of conflict, and the romance develops just as a straight one would in any other YA novel.

I ask this because I know that there's a huge lack of LGBTQ MCs in mainstream YA. I don't want to write for a niche LGBTQ audience, and I am not a contemporary fiction writer. But I also know (from lots of experience) that it can be hard to get invested in a romance when I myself have zero romantic connection with the love interest.

So, what's your opinion? Do you think you could fall in love with a romance that features a badass princess, instead of Hunky Brooding Prince Charming?

SWest · Oct 7, 2014

<--- this excited

A few titles you might want to check out:

The Divide by Kim Flowers

Santa Olivia by Jacqueline Carey

Huntress by Malinda Lo

All three are Book I of a series. So, not only is this type of character possible, she is downright followable when well executed on the page.

jtrylch13 · Oct 7, 2014

Mmmmm. First, let me say that I have heard quite a few YA readers asking for diversity in all forms and more LGBTQ+ books. So there is definitely an audience, if you can get it published. Mainstream may be a difficult sell, but some one has to write that book someday, so why not you? Would I be interested? If it's treated as if it's just like any other romance (because it is) I think I would like it. I'd love to read a story where being gay isn't the issue, just part of the story. As one YA reader I came across said, and I paraphrase, I never thought about needing diversity because it isn't an issue for me, but I need people who have different experiences in life to show me those experiences so I can understand where they are coming from.

So basically, I'm saying write it. I don't know if it will sell, but it would be great if it does!

Osulagh · Oct 7, 2014

If it is dystopian, you'll probably find it harder to sell that than a LGBTQ book. The market is already over-saturated, publishers aren't interested, agents can't sell them.

To the question of if I would read a LGBTQ book: Yes, but I wouldn't be more excited over any other type of romance.

To the idea of selling it to the "mainstream" market: Sadly, not exactly possible. Heterosexual romance is just the norm and the market is set for that. Now, a LGBTQ book can grow so large from its niche that it enters the mainstream market, but it's going to be very hard for a big publisher to put out a LGBTQ book without some questioning looks and stares, and possible low returns--thus the hesitation for big romance publishers willingly opening their doors.

Luckily, society is opening up more and more these days, and I expect LGBTQ fiction to become more and more common in the coming decades.

rwm4768 · Oct 7, 2014

I agree that the dystopian aspect might be a tougher sell (though you might offset that with the gay romance aspect). A lot of agents are actively seeking diversity in fiction. Sure, some people will hate that you've put gay characters in there, but others will seek out your book because they're in there.

I do love the idea of books with diversity, where diversity is just an organic part of the story, as opposed to diversity books, where the author hits you over the head with a message. Not that there's anything wrong with the latter. It's just not what I'm looking for in my reading.

And I think that more and more diversity will get into the mainstream if authors treat it like any other part of the story.

Liosse de Velishaf · Oct 8, 2014

I wouldn't say I would be "excited", exactly. I would say I personally would be more like neutral to interested. But, like much of the market, I would question whether the GLBT aspect would be enough to outweigh yet another stantard "dystopian" novel.

A.D. Martin · Oct 8, 2014

In my research for agents to query for my YA, I've noticed that agents who handle YA are particularly interested in contemporary YA, and a lot of them want "diversity," including LBGTQ (actually, they might be looking more for LGBTQ POVs more so than racial diversity). So, definitely go for it.

If you could get away from the dystopian setting without too much trouble, I'd suggest doing it. Agents cringe at the D word these days. At the least, downplay the dystopian tidbits in your query.

It also worries me that you describe your novel as being very similar to other mainstream (i.e. currently popular and already in movie form) YA. You should strive to move away from what's already super popular, because come query time, things that are currently big in the mainstream are going to be avoided like the Divergent.

Anyway, good luck.

DaisyH · Oct 8, 2014

As mentioned, the dystopian aspect may be harder to sell than the LGBT part of it. A lot of people (agents and readers) or looking for diversity in YA, and an audience for it does exist.

Here's a post by Malindo Lo (author of Ash and Huntress):
http://www.malindalo.com/2011/04/how-hard-is-it-to-sell-an-lgbt-ya-novel/

polleekin · Oct 8, 2014

Well personally, I am dying for some good fantasy/science fiction books with queer girls who go on adventures and maybe fall in love. I will be SO excited when there are more out there.

You never know whether your book will catch on with a wide audience or whether it will end up with a smaller crowd, but you know what? If the smaller crowd falls in love with your book, they'll tell you, and getting those responses will be amazing. I know a bunch of teens impatiently waiting for books like yours.

You could write the most commercial-seeming book out there and it could still tank. Write and try not to worry about whether you're "mainstream."

meowzbark · Oct 8, 2014

I would say that there is a sizeable market. Look at this page of YA books with LGBT:
http://nijiclovers.blogspot.com/2014/06/i-wanted-to-make-something-special-for.html

The blog author even made a rainbow graphic of the book covers:
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q561/cayce006/yarainbow_zps0ea1e311.png

Becca C. · Oct 8, 2014

A gay MC in a sci-fi/fantasy where "the LGBT themes are just part of the background, not the whole story" is not new. I keep seeing people everywhere acting like it's this novel idea. Ten years ago, I was writing and reading LGBT YA and there was plenty of it around if you just opened your eyes to it. So go ahead, but it's not revolutionary. Come query time, you're going to have to rely on more than just "gay MC w/ romance" and "sci-fi/fantasy" to sell your book, because there's plenty of that being queried. It needs more to stand out.

jtrylch13 · Oct 8, 2014

BTW - I've seen a lot of agents requesting sci-fi and a lot of readers also. If you can move away from dystopia and make it more sci-fi, this might help in selling it.

rwm4768 said:
And I think that more and more diversity will get into the mainstream if authors treat it like any other part of the story.

This right here.

Becca C. said:
Ten years ago, I was writing and reading LGBT YA and there was plenty of it around if you just opened your eyes to it.

I think the point here is that we don't see LGBTQ+ in mainstream books. If we have to "open our eyes" then we are actively seeking it, and that's not mainstream. I'm not saying there aren't gay characters in mainstream books, but how many gay MC's do you see on the shelves of B&N? I can't say I've ever read any, and that's not because I see it on the cover and say, "Oh, that's not for me." There may be plenty of LGBTQ+ books, and I have heard of Melinda Lo's books, though I haven't read them yet, but they (LGBTQ+) books are classified as such. I'd like to see them just be SF or Fantasy or Dystopia, or whatever. Someday. I probably won't actively seek LGBTQ+ books, mainly because I don't like to read issue books, but if a character, even the MC, was gay, it certainly wouldn't turn me off. I'm babbling here, but I guess what I'm saying is LGBTQ+ isn't mainstream yet, but I'd be happy to see it that way.

polleekin · Oct 8, 2014

Becca C. said:
A gay MC in a sci-fi/fantasy where "the LGBT themes are just part of the background, not the whole story" is not new. I keep seeing people everywhere acting like it's this novel idea. Ten years ago, I was writing and reading LGBT YA and there was plenty of it around if you just opened your eyes to it. So go ahead, but it's not revolutionary. Come query time, you're going to have to rely on more than just "gay MC w/ romance" and "sci-fi/fantasy" to sell your book, because there's plenty of that being queried. It needs more to stand out.

That's true, but hm, I didn't think that's what the OP was asking. I read it as they were worried it would put them into a niche market instead of getting mainstream promotion, which can happen to some books. Maybe I misunderstood the question. But yes, book quality comes first -- The Summer Prince had some nice displays/co-op placement when it came out because it's an awesome book.

Becca, maybe you can help! I come up with a rather short list when looking for YA LGBT fantasy. Do you have any suggestions I can pass on to my teens? I don't feel I haven't been "opening my eyes to it" though. I regularly keep up with industry news, online booklists, SLJ, etc. If you're willing to provide some good titles I might not have heard of, it would be much appreciated! (though a PM is fine so I don't derail the thread) If not, that's totally okay. I just haven't personally encountered nearly enough to say there's plenty of it, so I'd love to know what I might have overlooked.

Becca C. · Oct 8, 2014

polleekin said:
Becca, maybe you can help! I come up with a rather short list when looking for YA LGBT fantasy. Do you have any suggestions I can pass on to my teens? I don't feel I haven't been "opening my eyes to it" though. I regularly keep up with industry news, online booklists, SLJ, etc. If you're willing to provide some good titles I might not have heard of, it would be much appreciated! (though a PM is fine so I don't derail the thread) If not, that's totally okay. I just haven't personally encountered nearly enough to say there's plenty of it, so I'd love to know what I might have overlooked.

Oh, sorry, I tend not to read much sci-fi fantasy, so I meant contemporary when I said there's a lot of it. You're right that there isn't much genre fiction with LGBT representation. I only really know of Malinda Lo's work, and there was one paranormal romance series with a gay MC that I remember seeing at Walmart once but I can't remember what those are called.

polleekin · Oct 8, 2014

Becca C. said:
Oh, sorry, I tend not to read much sci-fi fantasy, so I meant contemporary when I said there's a lot of it. You're right that there isn't much genre fiction with LGBT representation. I only really know of Malinda Lo's work, and there was one paranormal romance series with a gay MC that I remember seeing at Walmart once but I can't remember what those are called.

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for replying!

Nogetsune · Oct 8, 2014

Personally I would see nothing wrong with it, nor would I really see it as all that "unique" Romance, to me, is romance, whether it be homosexual or heterosexual. I've never seen one as better then the other, and personally I see no reason why a book would be shunned just because it had a homosexual romance as a plot point. I say go ahead and do it. I'd actually be more worried about the fact the book follows the same dystopian formula as appose to the fact it has homosexuality in it. Now, I love my dystopias just as much as the next guy, but admittedly they are a difficult sell right now, and that doesn't look to change anytime soon.

jtrylch13 · Oct 8, 2014

The thing is, many of us are far more accepting of who people are then a big chunk of American culture. I'm not sure the stats, but I think the country is roughly 50/50 in favor of same sex marriage. So that's half the population that wouldn't read a book with an LGBTQ+ MC. Of the other half, a significant portion won't read it either because it doesn't "appeal" to them. Many people ar elike, "Do what you want, just not in my face." That's not understand or acceptance. That's barely tolerance. So having a gay MC in a mainstream genre book is a pretty big deal. Keep in mind it could take you a year or more to write and perfect it. Then you have to get an agent, sell to a publisher, get it to print, etc. It could be years before this book reaches the market, and that could make a big difference in reception. People are getting more tolerant everyday. I'd say write it now and write it fast.

Corinne Duyvis · Oct 11, 2014

SFF YAs with queer protagonists:

ASH & HUNTRESS by Malinda Lo
ADAPTATION & INHERITANCE by Malinda Lo
WITCH EYES trilogy by Scott Tracey
PROXY & GUARDIAN by Alex London
PANTOMIME & SHADOWPLAY by Laura Lam
THE ELEMENTALS by Saundra Mitchell
THE CULLING series by Steven dos Santos
DARK METROPOLIS by Jaclyn Dolamore (one of multiple MCs)
GRASSHOPPER JUNGLE by Andrew Smith
THE MARBURY LENS & PASSENGER by Andrew Smith
CODA by Emma Trevayne
THE DREAM THIEVES by Maggie Stiefvater (several PoVs, one major one being queer)
STRANGER by Rachel Manija Brown & Sherwood Smith
EVERY DAY by David Levithan (sort of)
GONE series by Michael Grant (lots of PoVs here, some are queer)
HERO by Perry Moore
THE SHATTERING by Karen Healey
UNSPOKEN trilogy by Sarah Rees Brennan (several PoVs, one or more are queer)
MORE THAN THIS by Patrick Ness

Also, my own OTHERBOUND.

I know I'm missing a few, but this is a good place to start. If you're looking for dystopians in particular, PROXY, THE CULLING, and CODA fit the bill. (Although these all feature male protagonists.)

Becca C. · Oct 11, 2014

Oooh, I forgot about MORE THAN THIS by Patrick Ness. I have read that, and I really liked it.

Debbie V · Oct 14, 2014

This blog has an extensive list of books on LGBTQ themes for teens and younger (even some NA and adult crossover titles): http://www.leewind.org/ Look at the left side of the screen and scroll down. The SFF link is pretty far down the list.

EMaree · Oct 14, 2014

I was going to give some recs, but Corinne Duyvis's list is perfect and includes all the books I was going to mention.

Mainstream appeal of LGBT MC?

The_Snow_Girl

SWest

In the garden...

jtrylch13

Has semi-colon; will use it!

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

rwm4768

practical experience, FTW

Liosse de Velishaf

A.D. Martin

Packer of Great Skill and Merit

DaisyH

polleekin

meowzbark

Becca C.

jtrylch13

Has semi-colon; will use it!

polleekin

Becca C.

polleekin

Nogetsune

jtrylch13

Has semi-colon; will use it!

Corinne Duyvis

My New Cat Is Too Big for Shoulders

Becca C.

Debbie V

Mentoring Myself and Others

EMaree

a demon for tea