The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jarocal

Re: Dodgem, your definition of doing well is???

They sold one million books and have what 3500 that have been published so far? Thats 285 copies sold per release on average. If you use their figure of 8000 authors the number drops to 125 copies per title. I would brag about 1,000,000 books too loud if I am only averaging 285 copies sold per title. Those figures even include the copies the author buys from the publisher.
 

Teena Haywood

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

While reading this thread a thought occurred to me.

Umm...I wonder how much it costs PA to put each authors' book cover design on Amazon, Booksamillion, B&N and other online bookstores? :shrug
 

James D Macdonald

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

It costs the price of an email to put the book covers on those on-line bookstores.
 

DaveKuzminski

PA's million books

Keep in mind that this sales claim covers PublishAmerica's output for how many years? One? Two? Three? More?

Would they still have a million books sold (as they claim) if they couldn't count those purchased by their own authors at a discount? Would they even have as many as ten thousand sold without the author purchases?

How many books does any other publisher with hundreds of authors publish in one year?
 

DeePower

Why PublishAmerica doesn't want book orders from stores

PA uses two figures.

From their email to me dated May 20.

"Again, the tone of your letter is way out of place. Soon we will sell our one millionth book! Neither your fax nor your registered letter reached the intended recipient. Future paper letters from you will be discarded unread.

If, after reading our bulleted refutations below, you still wish to end your contract, please renew your request, using [email protected] as your sole point of contact." End quote

And from the same email several paragraphs later

"In the past two years we have sold more than a quarter of a million books, which stands in contrast to any allegation that our books are not competitively priced and/or supplied."

And as to the pricing of PA books from that same email

" On price: Your question may be answered in this detailed discussion of this issue, and the info below:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/6842.htm

Contrary to what you may have been told, bookstores will generally carry a book that they think will sell, regardless of price, whether it is returnable or not, and whether it is printed on digital or offset presses. You may have found a number of books that are less expensive than yours will be, but we have found a large number of similar books that are more
expensive.

We know that our pricing is not deterring sales. We have found that pricing is simply not nearly the significant issue that some may think it is.
Remember too, that we are just as eager to sell books as you are, and would do things differently if we thought it appropriate.

In the past two years we have sold more than a quarter of a million books, which stands in contrast to any allegation that our books are not competitively priced and/or supplied.

All of our books are so-called "trade paperbacks", with most of them 6 inches by 9 inches in size. Trade paperbacks are what you find in your local bookstore. There is another type of book called "mass paperback". The size of these is considerably smaller, their paper quality is much cheaper, and they are mostly available in supermarkets and convenience stores.

They are often priced in the $6 to $9 range, and are mostly the books to which you are comparing yours. In our industry, comparing trade paperbacks with mass paperbacks is like comparing apples and oranges. The cheaper mass paperbacks sell significantly less, statistically, than the more expensive trade paperbacks. In fact, the rate of unsold copies that go back to the publisher for destruction is three times higher than the rate for the higher priced trade paperbacks."

END OF quote

Interestinly we didn't compare our book at $21.95 to the cost of a mass market paperback. Our complaint was that the book should have been priced at most $19.95.

Dee
www.brianhillanddeepower.com
 

SRHowen

say what?

I do buy hardcover books, once and awhile if the author is someone I buy everything they write from. (ick that's an awful sentence) But anyway.

I pay generally about 20 some bucks. I have paid as much as 10 bucks for a paper back book--huge fat thing. And mass market books only in available in grocery stores and convenience stores?

What drugs are they on?

Shawn
 

DeePower

Why PublishAmerica doesn't want book orders from stores

I just had to post this from the PA board, the first is a message from "Sirat" who questioned PA's response to the pricing issue. SCroll way down to the middle of
www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/6842.htm

RE: PublishAmerica's Pricing Policy

From: Sirat
Message:
Obviously I can't argue in detail with the PublishAmerica representative regarding the money breakdown because only they know how much things cost and what the profit margins are. But surely there is some reason for the almost universally held perception that their prices are very much on the high side. I agree that comparisons with vanity publishers are not entirely appropriate, but in fact publishers like iUniverse charge MORE (not less) for their product than most conventional publishers, and PublishAmerica would come out even worse if compared with the average small conventional publisher - very much worse if compared with large conventional publishing houses. I find it hard to believe that the profit margin could be as little as one dollar per book. Is that the margin after all overheads and wages are paid I wonder? Is it a measure of the company's capital growth that we are talking about? I am not arguing that PublishAmerica should set out to make less money, rather that by lowering the unit price a little they are likely to make more, and our books are likely to sell more copies and reach a bigger audience. But even if we accept everything that PublishAmerica has said, it would appear that page length is the deciding factor so if my book is 170 pages long and the $19.95 figure is based on a 225 page average length book, then mine should still be considerably cheaper than that $19.95 "average". I think PublishAmerica has discovered a formula that does in fact "work" which is to create income by selling small numbers of books at a high price to friends and families of writers, with a few "random" sales to people who don't care much about what price they pay, and there are clearly at least some readers in that category, but it is a policy that prevents any kind of volume sales and makes it very unattractive for writers to put money and effort into promoting their books in conventional channels. What would be very revealing would be a breakdown of the number of copies sold to authors at author discount, to people on the list provided by authors, and to people who hear about the book in other ways. I am suggesting that a fairly modest reduction in the cover price would allow far more sales in that third category and hence benefit all of us. I would urge PublishAmerica to move in that direction. I am even willing to pre-order a reasonable quantity of my own book if a reduction in cover price can be negotiated. Effectively I am offering to carry some of the financial risk myself, and perhaps function as a "trial case" to see if a lower cover price increases or decreases the money that PublishAmerica takes in for a title at the end of the year. I am not "complaining", I am trying to reason this out and see if we couldn't make mutually beneficial changes. Just because something "works" doesn't mean that it can't be improved upon.


And the answer below is from PublishAmerica. It astounds me that they are so rude to one of their authors ("Sirat") on a public board.

RE: PublishAmerica's Pricing Policy
From: Infocenter Administrator

Message:
Sirat, let us burst another bubble, before you start sounding like a naysayer with a broken record, which would be unintentional yet remarkable for someone whose book is not even in print yet.

Family and friends are in no way a significant buying force. It is something that an occasional ignorant is fond to scream, "PA relies on your family and friends for their sales, boohoohoo..."

True, no apologies made: as a courtesy we inform, at our sole expense, an author's friends, even if the author lives as far away as Britain, as you do. No other publisher extends this courtesy to its authors, only PA does it.

Wanna know how many of them actually buy the average book, written by their relative or friend?

A whopping, astounding, spectacular 18.

That's right, only eighteen. Hardly enough to pay for a day's trash pickup. That's how much the author's friends care, and it fits seamlessly what you may find at www.publishamerica.com/cg...l/220.htm, the thread called "Is it only me?"

So much for our alleged formula "which is to create income by selling small numbers of books at a high price to friends and families of writers." Thank you for knowing this industry better than we do, and for "not complaining" about something you have yet to experience firsthand.

End of response.


And PublishAmerica says they use the discussion board for marketing.

Dee
www.brianhillanddeepower.com
 

allion

Re: Why PublishAmerica doesn't want book orders from stores

Did someone piddle in their Cheerios this morning??

What a snarky response to a valid question from one of their own authors!

That last paragraph is particularly cutting.
 

CWGranny

Re: Why PublishAmerica doesn't want book orders from stores

I notice they didn't touch the question of what percentage of overall sales are to the writer. THAT would be a revealling answer. After all, the bulk of the sales to friends and family probably are directly through the author rather than through the mailing (which many authors have remarked keep getting tossed unopened because it looks so much like junk mail.)
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Why PublishAmerica doesn't want book orders from stores

Family and friends are in no way a significant buying force. It is something that an occasional ignorant is fond to scream, "PA relies on your family and friends for their sales, boohoohoo..."

No, PA doesn't rely on family and friends to buy the books. They rely on you the author to buy the books. You then resell them to family and friends. Boohoohoo.... on you.

No other publisher extends this courtesy to its authors, only PA does it.

Have you wondered why this might be? Because if PA didn't do that, folks could rightly say that they didn't do any marketing at all....
 

DeePower

Wat do you think defines fraud? -

I could ask our attorney but that would rack up some bucks and we're already paying to terminate our contract with PublishAmerica.

But I was thinking, what do you think defines fraud.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
 

Jarocal

Re: Why PublishAmerica doesn't want book orders from stores

I think it would more matter what the state of Maryland defines as fraud (I believe that's the legal venue cases are handled in but may be wrong, check your contract it should say where).
Not knowing any details of your individual case other than the "email support only" part that has been posted, I am not sure that what PA does fits the legal definition of fraud. They may morally be thieves, but from excerpts of their contract I've seen posted on different sites it is legal and and they do fufill it as written, if not as their advertising seems to imply you get.
 

DaveKuzminski

Fraud?

When someone tells you that a used car isn't used or that it was only driven on Sundays to church by a little old lady when it was actually used in stock car racing, that's fraud regardless of what is written on the contract.

That same logic should be applied to what PublishAmerica is doing. Their claims should be examined and they should be legally forced to correct those claims to avoid any misconceptions those cause within the minds of writers who don't know better.
 

Jarocal

Re: Fraud?

But in this case it appears to actually deliver what they say they will. They send out the releases they say they will, the books are made available to Brick and Mortar stores. As far as a competitive pricing claim, that would be very subjective and I don't see a judge saying that the books are way overpriced because PA can show titles from traditional publishers in their range.

I wonder if it is just coincidental that both Publish America and Poetry.com are located in Maryland or if the legal definitions of fraud under Maryland state law are in favor of the scammer and a case is harder to prove with their type of operation. They aren't really selling a used car as new.
 

DeePower

And now a message from PublishAmerica

I just received this a few moments ago. It seems Pa is hitting up their authors to buy more books, I guess PublishAmerica must be facing a cash shortage. Oh the 80 titles is a little low, there were 142 this week.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com


Dear Author,

We have lots of exciting news to share with you, and it's all because of you.

Thanks to the enthusiasm of authors such as yourself, an average 67 new writers ask us each day if they can join your ranks. They have heard about you, your book, your fellow authors, or your publisher through bookstores, newspapers, magazines, the internet, or through simple word of mouth. Imagine: that is more than 16,000 writers per year. This makes PublishAmerica by far the number one traditional publisher in terms of manuscripts submitted. And since the vast majority of all submitted works never make it through the full acceptance process, it makes you a member of one of the most envied crowds in the publishing world.

PublishAmerica already is the number one traditional publisher with new books in print. Each week we release an average 80 new titles to the industry, we send 110 press releases to the media, and we continue to support more than 150 bookstore or library events.

In May, we sold more books than ever before in our history, one every 18 seconds, causing us to now have the 1-million-books-sold mark in sight! As always, we sold our books all across the globe, including countries as far away as Thailand, France, and Australia, for a total of almost 100 foreign countries served by PublishAmerica authors.

All this is formidable, and it is all thanks to the quality of our authors and the books they have given us the privilege to publish. We congratulate you, and we are letting you know that, as a token of our appreciation, we are now enabling all of our authors to purchase each other's (and their own!) books at steep discounts, such that this enables you to getting to know the quality of your peers' works even better:

1-20 books: 30 pct discount;
21-50 books: 40 pct discount;
51-100 books: 45 pct discount;
101-200 books: 50 pct discount;
201+ books: 55 pct discount.

This special offer expires June 15. Again, the above discount schedule is available to you, and it covers all PublishAmerica titles, including your own. Orders can be placed by phone only, our number is 301 695 1707.
Full-color books are excluded.

Thank you.
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: And now a message from PublishAmerica

I see that PublishAmerica used their own editor to check through their notice to their authors. For example, "...such that this enables you to getting to know the ..."

I also observed that those other countries are served by their authors and not by PublishAmerica. For once, they finally got one claim right.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: And now a message from PublishAmerica

<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>All this is formidable, and it is all thanks to the quality of our authors and the books they have given us the privilege to publish. We congratulate you, and we are letting you know that, as a token of our appreciation, we are now enabling all of our authors to purchase each other's (and their own!) books at steep discounts, such that this enables you to getting to know the quality of your peers' works even better:

1-20 books: 30 pct discount;
21-50 books: 40 pct discount;
51-100 books: 45 pct discount;
101-200 books: 50 pct discount;
201+ books: 55 pct discount.
<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

After reading this is there any doubt at all that PA's business plan is selling books to their authors?

That's straight vanity-press, right down the line.
 

DeePower

PA author can't get his book in chain stores

Below is a post at the PA discussion board about how he has had to sell the books on consignment to independents and how the chains won't consider his book. So much for PublishAmerica's claim that the PA books are available at chain bookstores.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

The post is below and at
www.publishamerica.com/cg...n/9959.htm

Scroll nearly to the bottom of the thread.


Message:
DanL & Tom:
My first three signings with Hastings (Victoria, Waco, Stephenville) were fairly successful, about 15 ave./signing. I had to furnish the books on a consignment basis for all three and the percentage varied with each store (20-35). I had local TV coverage at the first signing at Victoria. Good publicity for me as well as Hastings on the 10 O'clock News.
After the third signing and good publicity, some of the Hastings stores gave me the option of them furnishing the books or I furnish the books. One store insisted that they had to furnish the books. They ordered 20. The last three signings have been on the condition that the store order 5-10 books and I furnish the others if those are sold. The first stores, I left books on consignment and would restock when they sold out. Now the stores are ordering replacements after a signing. This past week, a Hastings store asked me to pick-up my consignment books. They would make more profit with them ordering the books.
To answer your question: it appears that success will bred success. You will undoubtedly will have to furnish the books on consignment until your book
proves itself.
I think that Hastings has placed at least one of my books in every one of their Texas stores. They haven't told me this, but every one I call about a signing already has a book in stock.
My success has been only with Hastings. I have books in three private book stores, but the other chain stores kick my butt every time they see me coming. Especially Waldenbooks. Two Barnes and Nobles stores told me they would order a couple of my books to stock, but never did.
I bought all of my books at a 55% discount. This allows me to at least make a small profit on the high consignment percentages.
Good selling!

KW
 

CaoPaux

Re: And now a message from PublishAmerica

The discussion of PA’s discount offer: PA's new email to authors!!


On the flip side: I NEED HELP!!!!


HRabb04
6/02/2004
15:25:50

Message:
I just recently got a disturbing email from someone at Publish America. They started off by telling me that the editor I had been in touch with is no longer with the company. They also are now claiming they have not received my contract, when they confirmed they had received said contact on May 4 of this year. Also, I am being told, for the second time, to change the title of my book. My original title, Until August, was rejected on late March as it was too close to another title already in production. I then was told to submit a list of alternate titles. The title of All the Time in the World was accepted at that time. However, I am now being told that they have no contact from me and that my second title is now no longer any good--again because someone else already has it. What can I do? What should I do?


Nutter
6/02/2004
15:39:29

Message:
Contracts are binding to both parties. I assume you kept the copies of their E-mails. If so an attorney can provide you with your options. As far as the title to your book it could be an infringement on someone elses copyright. Try coming up with a new title and submit.


Trinity926
6/02/2004
15:56:18

Message:
I would send them a copy of my contract (assuming you kept your copy). And let them know that I will not be changing the title of my book for a second time. According to copyright laws, you can only copyright the text of a manuscript and/or song. I don't think you can copyright a title. Anyone can use a title over and over with no legal repercussions. Although it would seem to be best to use one that has not been used yet. I would say seek legal represeatation asap.
 

aka eraser

Re: PA author can't get his book in chain stores

That second message has already been poofed by the PA police.
 

Jarocal

Re: And now a disappearing message from PublishAmerica

I wonder if they keep an archive database of those threads? It would chew up server space, but it would be in their best interest to archive those threads in case someone was bright enough to do so through the simple "email me responses to this thread" feature that is on most Message Boards. Having them emailed directly to an account set up by one's lawyer to save for posterity would be the most damaging to PA's credibility in a courtroom. The message board is a marketing tool but if patterns of disinformation from the PA Moderator being osted before the thread is pulled can be shown, that may help any fraud case against them (especially if they are not saving all those threads on an archive before they delete them).

By not saving them, if one is later produced, PA will have a harder time disproving what was said if all the threads in their possesion were deleted. They could not complain about unlawful copying of a thread either if their system has a "email me responses thread" that was utilized to gather the information.

I also noticed that they picked a new webmaster for their webring. She from outside the company and following which sites end up getting booted from the ring would be a good place to watch for messages from disigruntled PA authors. It is a step or two removed from the company itself and should allow some extra time before pressure can be exerted to drop someone/somthing from being affiliated with the ring. Some of the older Disgruntled people who have been banned from the Message boards may be able to add sites and then add a couple pages explaining the differences between PA and what the Industry, if not the ;aw considers a traditional publisher to be.
 

LiamJackson

Re: PA author can't get his book in chain stores

<<Each week we release an average 80 new titles to the industry, we send 110 press releases to the media, and we continue to support more than 150 bookstore or library events.>>

Does anyone understand their definition of "the industry"?

Btw, regarding Jim Mac's assertion that a large part of PA's formula for success includes selling mucho books back to the PA authors, I can only offer two observations.

1. Jim is dead on

and

2. The formula seems to be working (see the PA author response to the discount announcement, below.)

<<Message:
Wow!
It does not get any better than this. Now there is no excuse for not buying at least more of our own books.
Herman >>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.