The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Ed Williams

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A hop, skip, and a couple of button pushes...

...finds me over in that Great and Mighty Land known as Poz, where we find that the "Book of 200" still lives. Amongst the comments:

You two are the greatest, for doing this foe all of us!!!
Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? And hey, nothing wrong with looking forward to getting screwed, but for most of us some dinner, wine, and trash talk usually occurs beforehand...

Did I tell y'all that I got an email from a PA author a couple of days ago where I was told that I would have to answer to God for the sins I've committed against PA? I kid y'all not. I swear that I wrote back the following: "Better to have to explain PA to God than what Meiners, Clopper, and Prather are going to have to explain to our red caped friend down below..."

Miscellaneous stuff:

Diana, please tell us how you feel about PA, don't hold back....<g>

Memphis Ed, I thought the Elvis mini-series thing was pretty good last night. That actor playing the King did a good job, I am in for the next part of the story.

Renee, I totally agree re beaches, and I'm not saying another word....<g>

And Uncle Jim, I did mention that I tried to get that article yesterday, and the guy's email addy is no good?

Y'all all have a great day....
 

realitychuck

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Ed Williams said:
Did I tell y'all that I got an email from a PA author a couple of days ago where I was told that I would have to answer to God for the sins I've committed against PA? I kid y'all not. I swear that I wrote back the following: "Better to have to explain PA to God than what Meiners, Clopper, and Prather are going to have to explain to our red caped friend down below...".
Evidently, on Planet PA, telling the truth is a sin.

If any PA author wishes to dispute any of the facts we present in this thread, they are welcome to do so. But they have to meet the same criteria we do: they need to point out independent confirmation of anything they say.
 

victoriastrauss

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Tilda said:
What struck me most was the price difference. I have often read at the AW that the approximate difference between a PA book and a traditional publisher book is around 5 dollars (right?). Well, not so here. It was MUCH more in our currency!
I'm not surprised. That $5 price difference is actually between PA books and other POD books (especially at longer lengths, PA is the most expensive POD publisher around). The price difference between PA books and commercially published books can be much, much more--double or even triple in some cases.

- Victoria
 

bluwinteryfox

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realitychuck said:
If any PA author wishes to dispute any of the facts we present in this thread, they are welcome to do so. But they have to meet the same criteria we do: they need to point out independent confirmation of anything they say.
You don't have to tell us who you are, use a screen name. You can remain anonymous for as long as you wish. Also, be polite and don't revert to name calling or anything like that. If you say something someone agrees with, you'll be told so. And don't come in like a bull in a china shop. A little tact goes a long way.
 

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victoriastrauss said:
That $5 price difference is actually between PA books and other POD books (especially at longer lengths, PA is the most expensive POD publisher around).

I'm not 100% sure about that. I think I'm the person who found the average $5 difference, and I was comparing the average price of a PA book (which I found by taking the prices of all the PA books released in a month) to the average price of a trade paperback in the United Stated (per Library Journal).

There are other expensive PODs out there. Xlibris has very high prices for its books, and it charges an initial fee as well. The PODs put out by Bookman Marketing are right up there. I think the most expensive on a per-page basis are the PODs from Booksurge.
 

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Bonnie Gibson said:
...I wanted to warn him and tell him all the facts about PA....
Folks do not seem to be receptive to warnings, judging from the occasional posted comments about such attempts. Perhaps better to simply attempt to answer questions, and in the process provide information about how the industry works?

Just a thought.

--Ken
 

allenparker

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bdhs said:
Also, I know a PA author who received negative reviews. She was able to call PA and Amazon and have the negative reviews removed. I no longer buy books or anything else from Amazon.com. If the buyer's reviews of a product are santitized to the point where bad reviews can be removed upon request, then I won't trust the seller.

Reviews that do not pertain to the book are removed. Many PA authors have received reviews that were merely attacks on the publisher and contained little or no information about the book. These reviews are not useful to the buyers and are simply meant to hurt the publisher. These reviews are removed.

All of us would concede that these reviews are not legitimate reviews of the book. They should be removed. Amazon.com, when tey see these types of reviews, will remove them without request. It is faster, however, to inform Amazon about the problem.

Legitimate reviews of books that are negative of content, writing style, and etc. should be left. Whether anyone has had legitimate negative reviews removed I do not know.

Allen
 
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Sheryl Nantus

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allenparker said:
Legitimate reviews of books that are negative of content, writing style, and etc. should be left. Whether anyone has had legitimate negative reviews removed I do not know.

Allen

I've seen a LOT of PA authors rush to demand anything less than five-star reviews be removed from their Amazon listings.

of course, this is the same mentality that has certain book review websites refusing to review PA books because of the complaints that came in when they delivered anything less than a spectacular review of the book in question.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Kirkus discoveries:

I know nothing of this company [Kirkus] nor have I visited their website. Beyond the revulting price and paying for a review, my question is what do they do with the review? Do they just send it to the author? Do they post it on their website? Do they transmit it to others? Who reads their reviews? Will this result in book sales? If I break down the $350.00 to see how many books I would need to sell just to recoup that amount, I find that to be a rather large mountain to climb.

Never having heard of Kirkus goes a long way to explaining why this author is at PA to start with.

To answer more of his questions: The review is posted in a special section of their website, not mixed in with the regular reviews, and not printed in their hardcopy publication. The author would have to sell an additional 366 copies as a result of that review to break even.

The next poster in that thread tries to explain it:

Just a word about Kirkus: I have worked in libraries for many years. Kirkus is the first place a librarian looks when deciding what books to buy, hence their credibility. THE best place to get a good review short of the big national papers.

But this author apparently doesn't know that the paid-for reviews aren't in the edition that the libraries get. Didn't this person ever notice that PA books aren't reviewed there?

How to get a real review in Kirkus:

Your publisher sends an advance reading copy to them months before the book's scheduled release.

==============

I think we're having a spine/spline problem here, only with fair/fare.

A fair is where people gather to buy and sell; a fare is what you pay to get on the subway.

==============

I hear the Guestbook Slimer is back.

Whoever you are, knock it off.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Bonnie -- that "Miranda" is the latest incarnation of the Guestbook Slimer. The IP number given is located in Honduras. Someone's playing games.

The name "Miranda" is meant to suggest Miranda N. Prather, who is not now and never has been a "professional editor." Nor is it likely an "editor" gets PublishAmerica books for "review."

We also saw Argile Stox post, in the recent brew-up at PA (5/01/2005 23:03:15):

Think long and hard, Mr. HB Marcus / Kilroy. Before you cast aspersions against Tracy and I, you had better reflect about all of which you had confided in Tracy - over the past three years.

I'll give you a resounding hint - Something about the Public Library and using their computers to inflict data harm to other computers? Sound familiar? I suspect that you would not enjoy any other bits and pieces of your past shenanigans to be made public.

===============

Allen -- I know for a fact that apparently legitimate reviews that were critical of PA books have been removed at the authors' request.
 
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DeePower

Do PA books have any characteristics of success?

Do books published by PublishAmerica have any hope of success?

What Vaults a Book to the Top of the List?

by Dee Power Copyright 2005

The business of books is big business with 175,000 new titles released each year and sales in the United States of about $40 billion. But what makes a book successful? Are there any common characteristics that can spur on sales? As part of the research for The Making of a Bestseller Dee Power and Brian Hill, the authors, surveyed over 100 editors and agents to answer those questions.

Previous Success is the Key Indicator of Future Success

Editors and agents are in agreement that an author’s previous bestselling book is the key factor in determining future success. Publishers Weekly, an industry publication, recently disclosed that 90% of the authors who made the PW bestseller list in 2004, had had a previous book on the bestseller list.

Quality of Writing is Paramount
For writers yet to produce a bestseller, comfort can be taken in that both agents and editors rank quality of writing highly. Great writing wins out. However, there are no hard and fast criteria about what constitutes “great writing.” It comes down to subjective judgments made by individuals. Book critics may argue that a successful book by the very virtue of its sale's success
can not be considered great writing.


Reviews, Whether Good or Bad, Don’t Count
And speaking of reviews, the survey participants discounted the importance of reviews to nearly last place in sparking sales of a book. This contradicts the advice given to “new” authors that it is critical they get their books reviewed. These results could also indicate that as an author becomes more successful, has
built a fan base and has had previous bestsellers, reviews decline in importance.

Timeliness of Topic is of the Essence
Old news is bad news when it comes to the subject of a book’s topic. Common sense dictates that there isn’t much interest in topics that have already been hashed over by the daily news media. Since book production takes from six to 12 months, it’s an amazing feat to get a book on a hot topic out to the market
at just the right time.

Word of Mouth and Fan Base
Readers telling other readers about a fabulous book they’ve just read has atremendous impact on success. Book buzz is priceless in the publishing industry. Authors on the upward sales track take their fans seriously.

What’s Not As Important
Reviews have already been mentioned as not having a great effect on success. Promotional efforts whether those of the publishing house or the author’s, fall toward the lesser end of the scale in importance as well. Advertising doesn’t seem to be as important either.

Money Doesn’t Count
Contrary to popular belief, or perhaps it’s just wishful thinking on the part of the author, the size of the advance paid isn’t a significant factor to success.

The most important factors in a book’s success,

in order, are:

Previous book was a bestseller

Quality of writing

Timeliness of topic

Fan base

Word of mouth

Author’s promotion

Publicity

Reviews

Advertising

Size of advance

***************************************

Comments anyone?

Dee



 

Sparhawk

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Ed Williams said:
...finds me over in that Great and Mighty Land known as Poz, where we find that the "Book of 200" still lives. Amongst the comments:

Did I tell y'all that I got an email from a PA author a couple of days ago where I was told that I would have to answer to God for the sins I've committed against PA? I kid y'all not. I swear that I wrote back the following: "Better to have to explain PA to God than what Meiners, Clopper, and Prather are going to have to explain to our red caped friend down below..."

I would assume that the Creator and CEO of the Universe has more important things to do than worry about PA.. That's why He put us here!!! Ed, you see, We are doing Gods work. The Lord shall act through thine hands and thy mouth. We are exposing a morally bankrupt evil empire. Your good deeds will assure you a happy spot "Upstairs".

What were some of the other wise sayings;

"Judge not others before judging yourself. "

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Ed, you are one the nicest, most truthful men I know (the BTO, Hamdog best !!!). To have someone E-MAil something like that is apalling.

Give that E-MAil all the attention it deserves.... NONE!!!

-Sparhawk
 

NicoleJLeBoeuf

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PA/Authorhouse latest schemes

I've fallen behind again, so if this has been mentioned more than 3 or 4 pages ago (let posts per page = 40) I won't have seen it yet. But anyway.

Via the always stupendous Maud's Blog (yes! two of Maud's remainders reminded me of AW today!), we have this:
Waterstones: Guaranteed Shelf Space For Self-Publishers

Waterstone's will be providing a "Self-Published" section at their flagship Oxford Street store where featured books will get shelf space for at least 8 weeks.... This is obviously a move to be welcomed. It's an attempt to acknowledge that not all good books come from traditional publishers; and it's also a sign that someone with the market clout of Waterstones's can shake up the industry a little with initiatives like this.
All well and good. But how did this "Self-Published" section get started?

Grumpy Old Bookman points out this press release where print-on-demand publishers Authorhouse have teamed up with British book chain Waterstone's.
Authorhouse =PublishAmerica, no? This can't be good... Or is "Authorhouse UK" somehow a different shebang altogether?
 

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Reviews of PA books

Sheryl Nantus said:
I've seen a LOT of PA authors rush to demand anything less than five-star reviews be removed from their Amazon listings.
Just today I read that thread at the PAMB ("Venting"), in which the author with the one star review was given advice to "get it removed by Amazon". Had to pick my jaw from the floor.:Wha:
Another writer replied:
...because the people who post rude comments such as the one you received are shallow minded and cannot comprehend the trauma you went through...thus their comments are, essentially, null and void!
While I don't agree with the particular one star review (I thought it was a bit rude) I find this way of thinking disturbing, because it implies that: 1. if you write about abuse or other delicate subject, you're above criticism because you showed enough courage to write your story, 2. you better put fingers in ears and sing nanananananaaa to all who give less than 5 stars.
I do crits fairly frequently and have seen people with slush-esque texts rise out of the mass with great stories after having listened to (and applied!) the constructive corrections and advice people have offered about their texts. Just what Emily ("of New Moon") said when her book was published...she intended to only listen to the negative criticisms;)
PA writer: this is what you need to do. Listen to those who give less than 5 star reviews, no matter how hurtful it would feel. It's bound to hurt at first, after the sugary circles at PA-land, but eventually you'll be glad you did.
Might even win you a traditional publishing contract:D
 

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NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
Authorhouse =PublishAmerica, no? This can't be good... Or is "Authorhouse UK" somehow a different shebang altogether?

AuthorHouse (formerly 1stBooks Library) is another vanity POD. They aren't associated with PA (other than by similarity of business plan).

The deal with Waterstone's is this: The author pays 700 pounds, and gets two copies of his book in a special section of one Waterstone's store for eight weeks.

700 pounds is around 1,300 dollars.

That this is a screamingly bad idea for an author to buy into should go without saying.

The press release is here.
 
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mdin

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Good article, Dee.


James D. Macdonald said:
The deal with Waterstones is this: The author pays 700 pounds, and gets two copies of his book in a special section of one Waterstone's store for eight weeks.

700 pounds is around 1,300 dollars.

That this is a screamingly bad idea for an author to buy into should go without saying.

Ouch. They could rent out their own storefront for a month with that amount.

Certainly squeezing a bit of money out of this is Waterstone's primary motivation, but I can't help but wonder if getting self-pubbed authors to leave their poor clerks alone was a major factor in this also. I know it's gotten so bad here that at least one bookstore only allows the publisher to contact the CRM.


****

20,000 posts! This is now the longest thread I've ever seen anywhere.
 

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XThe NavigatorX said:
Certainly squeezing a bit of money out of this is Waterstone's primary motivation, but I can't help but wonder if getting self-pubbed authors to leave their poor clerks alone was a major factor in this also. I know it's gotten so bad here that at least one bookstore only allows the publisher to contact the CRM.
Perhaps also to stamp out the "order copies under a fake name, then never pick them up so the bookshop has to shelve them" scam.
 

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James D. Macdonald said:
AuthorHouse (formerly 1stBooks Library) is another vanity POD. They aren't associated with PA (other than by similarity of business plan).

I have a friend of a friend who published with AuthorHouse (romantic fiction). He asked me to read his book and I literally couldn't get through it do to the poor editing. More commas in one place than I had ever seen.

He also bought their marketing "package", which did him absolutely no good. He sells some books at booksignings where he lives and is searching for an agent.

If he gets, in order 1) a good editor, then he might get 2) a good agent who will find 3) a good publisher. Without that, absent any kind of platform, he is stuck like PA with the exception of owning the rights to his book.
 

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Memphis Ed said:
I have a friend of a friend who published with AuthorHouse (romantic fiction).

Like any of the vanity presses, the only question that AuthorHouse asks is "Does his check clear?"

Maybe the book is good, maybe it isn't, they don't care. Just like our other favorite vanity press (the guys in Maryland).

Q. How is vanity publication like an electric fan?

A. If you get behind it, it sucks. If you get out in front, it blows. If you stand beside it, it won't do a thing for you. And if you get into it, it'll chop you up.
 

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Tilda said:
Just today I read that thread at the PAMB ("Venting"), in which the author with the one star review was given advice to "get it removed by Amazon"...
If that is the one I think it is, she also commented on an editing thread that she had found only TWO typos in her book.

--Ken
 
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