The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Savannah Blue

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SeanDSchaffer said:
Maybe they're just reeling from the shock right now, I don't know.
:Shrug:

Sean, you also got away with posting the dreaded 'AW' initials over there and it's still up. Amazing!
 
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JennaGlatzer

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Dave, nice idea. But I just want one part.

The person who designs the "best" cover for Atlanta Nights gets a free subscription to the Absolute Markets Premium Edition ( www.absolutemarkets.com ). Post 'em on the Office Party board and we'll vote. :)
 

SeanDSchaffer

Savannah Blue said:
<snipped>

Sean, you also got away with posting the dreaded 'AW' initials over there and it's still up. Amazing!


IT IS STILL THERE????? You're kidding me!

They must royally be reeling!!
:faint:
 
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cwgranny

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There are basically three different sorts of goals for those who critique PA...

1. Some want PA to be what they claim to be. They want PA to do real edits. They want PA to act like it plans to sell books to someone besides the authors. They want PA to do the very basic things any real non-vanity publisher would do.

2. Some want PA to admit what they really are. They are a vanity press with an interesting new approach. They don't do ANY of the things you would get from a real non-vanity but pretty much ALL of the things you would get from a vanity -- except they will make the book buyer (usually the author) pay the vanity cost on the backend instead of making the author pay it on the front end. This group simply wants PA to be honest without really asking that they BEHAVE much differently (other than burying that nasty contract in the yard.)

3. The third group wants PA shut down and the PA big-wigs boiled in oil. This isn't a big group and it's a bit amorphous. When folks are most angry they want the oil...but then many calm down and join group 1 or 2. Some though are hard-core 3-ers and have been heating up the oil for a couple years now.

Group 1 will NEVER see its dreams full-filled. Becoming a real publisher is expensive and those who own and operate PA ARE NOT interested in investing in their authors. They are making money (though hopefully on an ever decreasing level) and they would do NOTHING that they perceive as lessening the amount they are making. Giving real advances. Doing basic marketing. Lowering book prices. Making books more attractive to stores and buyers. Those are VERY EXPENSIVE propositions. Observation would suggest this zebra isn't going to change its stripes like that.

Group 2 has the strongest case. If PA actually did this, they could continue to make money without having so many author advocates nipping at its heels. When you get down to the nitty gritty -- most folks would choose the free vanity press over the costly one. And so PA would end up basically competing only with Lulu and I think they could do that without really interfering with their profits. However, PA is still not convinced that this is the way to go. They would likely lose the publishing dollars of a number of folks who flatly hate the self-publishing/vanity label and PA isn't willing to let any fish go. Still, if the heat stays on them, I think this has a chance.

As for group number three...I have to admit, I have my doubts. After all Poetry.com has been separating folks from money in a very similar scam to PA for YEARS AND YEARS. MY MOTHER sent a poem of mine to these folks (under a different name) back when I was in college. That's a long time ago. No one has shut them down yet. Of course, desperation has made PA do the dirty in some pretty public ways. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.

My prediction...eventually the PA biggies will get annoyed enough with the bad press, the author demands, and the falling profits to simply close up shop and reopen with a new name and a new scam and try to get in another few good years. I hope it don't happen...but if I were a betting person, this is where I'd put my money.

gran
 
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JennaGlatzer

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Guys, I've been up for two days again and need to get *some* sleep, so do me a favor and take a lesson from Self-Delete Queen Ann... if you find yourself making posts that in any way reference last night, for the sake of Zeus, delete yourself! ;)

I know people skim this thread, but I've made the same request 3 times, and so has Victoria.
 

WhisperingBard

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The person who designs the "best" cover for Atlanta Nights gets a free subscription to the Absolute Markets Premium Edition ( www.absolutemarkets.com ). Post 'em on the Office Party board and we'll vote.

Jenna:
I'd be willing to make a monetary donation for a cash prize to help bring a little more notice to the effort. ;)
 

M. Story

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SeanDSchaffer said:
I'm sorry I don't remember his name, Trapped in Amber, but I do remember his book: Crab Cake & Pepper. That guy knew a lot about writing! Wonderful fellow.

Wow, you have a good memory. I just recall he looked a little like the Gorton Fisherman, but I digress. He had either a newspaper column or a radio program that gave him enough notoriety to sell his books. He is a very nice guy, and obviously quite talented. He may have gotten nervous with the babes on the board flirting with him and made a quiet exit.

Marlene
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WhisperingBard

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A number of you have mentioned that you were aware going into your contract with PA that their marketing and author support wasn't necessarily the best, but that you thought that your book was unique enough that you could make PA work for you. Would you mind please sharing why?

In my case, it was a business decision. I own a retail/wholesale store online that specializes in a niche market, through which I sell an original line of products. Previously, I'd put together a book of children's poetry and stories that I printed through Cafe Press, which I sell through my store (it does fairly well, all things considered - not like a "real" book would, but certainly better than PA books are doing). I began to get requests from my customers for more of my work.

I had a manuscript for a mid-grade novel (still within my niche but also with broader mainstream appeal) that I had shopped to Laura Geringer Books once upon a time. It made it out of the slush pile, past the first reader, and on for further review. Ultimately, however, they passed on it. So, I thought, why not have the book printed myself and sell it along with the Cafe Press book? And that's what I did.

Why didn't I go back to Cafe Press, or try Lulu instead? Because PA promised to edit my book. And I knew no matter how much *I* liked the book, it still needed professional editing. PA also offered the possibility of distribution on a larger basis, or so I thought.

Anyway, it wasn't long after I signed the contract (couple months maybe?) that I began to discover things online that made me nervous about my choice. I began to read PA's boards religiously, and what I found there made me downright queasy. And then I landed here, at AW, and thought, "OMG, what have I done?"

I hate, really hate, being associated with a company that treats authors the way PA treats them. My decision to let them print my book is one I will regret all my life.

Because I have pre-orders from customers for my book, I have no choice but to purchase a small quantity from PA to honor those. But that will be a one-time-only thing. After that, I want nothing more to do with them, except perhaps to help bring them down/get them to go legit.

(Oh, and in case anyone is wondering why I didn't just pull up my boot straps and continue trying to get my book published legitimately, there was an awful lot going on in my life around this time, not the least of which was caring for a 98-year-old father-in-law and a mother who was seriously ill. My head just wasn't in a place where I could have dealt with it.)

And that's *my* story...
 

JennaGlatzer

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Bard, you're the coolest. My guess is, though, that people will be willing to mock up some fun entries just for the sheer joy of it. I know I'm going to!
 

Savannah Blue

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SeanDSchaffer said:
IT IS STILL THERE????? You're kidding me!

They must royally be reeling!!
:faint:

From the PA board...edited so as to not further any negative postings...only posted here to preserve AW being mentioned on the PA board.

SDSchaffer2

4/14/2005
03:41:44


document.gif
RE: ABC Bashes PA
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/ip.pl?ip=11943_21.main


Message:

Xxxx, it's been wonderful talking with you, on this site as well as AW's. And to all of you, have a good night.


Sean
 

SeanDSchaffer

JennaGlatzer said:
Guys, I've been up for two days again and need to get *some* sleep, so do me a favor and take a lesson from Self-Delete Queen Ann... if you find yourself making posts that in any way reference last night, for the sake of Zeus, delete yourself! ;)

I know people skim this thread, but I've made the same request 3 times, and so has Victoria.


Understood, Jenna. I'll be sure to do what you and Victoria asked in my own case.;)

Sleep good!
:sleepy:
 

SeanDSchaffer

JennaGlatzer said:
Frank Weaver, and I have no idea why I remembered his name, but there you have it!


Yeah! That was him, Jenna!:Thumbs:

I haven't talked with him in the longest of time. It'd be great to hear from him again.
 

bluwinteryfox

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They are talking about saving trees http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/3186 the last reply says
Based on my extensive research in the last 2 years, sources vary saying 40-80% of sales are online. Other sources say 20-45% of sales are in brick & mortar bookstores.
How can they believe that. :Headbang: I rarely purchase books online. The last two I did was Atlanta Nights because my car is in the garage without an engine, and the other was one my daughter wanted. I like to go into bookstores and look at the book.
 

M. Story

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SeanDSchaffer said:
Why in the world would I be able to go over to PA's boards, openly state that I disagree with their business practices, and not be banned for it? In fact, there's a "Neverending Thread" of sorts over on the Original Authors Boards called 'Bashers.' I've posted my opinions on that thread a number of times -- as well as on a few others -- and nothing has been said about it... by anyone! Not PA, not its authors, no one.

(No one yet, I should say.)
EmoteShrug.gif


Why in the world would that be?
confused.gif

Jealous are we? <tease> Sean, I can tell you exactly how to get booted off the PA Boards. All you do is put this on one of your posts: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/ It worked for me!
EmoteWha.gif


Thanks again for the Bible info. I've definitely changed my mind about the 1611 KJV.

Marlene
BBBfBBB
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Bored Blond Banned from Both Boring Boards
 

clintl

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I do buy books online sometimes. But only when I know exactly what I'm looking for (specific books, specific authors and/or specific topics). I buy a lot more books in stores.
 

SeanDSchaffer

bluwinteryfox said:
They are talking about saving trees http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/3186 the last reply says
How can they believe that. :Headbang: I rarely purchase books online. The last two I did was Atlanta Nights because my car is in the garage without an engine, and the other was one my daughter wanted. I like to go into bookstores and look at the book.



I don't understand that person either. The majority of people I've talked to have two major criteria for buying a book: low price, and brick-and-mortar bookstore shelving. And PA does not provide either for their authors. If anything, PA will allow its authors to provide that for themselves, at a loss.

But try to remember the 'studies' this individual did were their own personal studies. The majority of the people this person talked to most probably did say what she said they said. But those people obviously do not represent everybody in the world, which she, for some reason, seems to allude that they do.
 

Sher2

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JennaGlatzer said:
Frank Weaver, and I have no idea why I remembered his name, but there you have it!
I remember that guy, and I remember hearing it said here that he's a very good writer. Small wonder, therefore, that he's disappeared from the Poz boards. One wonders why he hasn't popped up here, though.
 

SeanDSchaffer

M. Story said:
Jealous are we? <tease> Sean, I can tell you exactly how to get booted off the PA Boards. All you do is put this on one of your posts: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/ It worked for me!
EmoteWha.gif


Thanks again for the Bible info. I've definitely changed my mind about the 1611 KJV.

Marlene
BBBfBBB
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Bored Blond Banned from Both Boring Boards


:roll: Hadn't thought of using the full link, Marlene. Hmmm... maybe.....:rolleyes:

Seriously, I was glad to give you the Bible info. One very hard-to-read text.

By the way, I like your signature line!
 
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bluwinteryfox

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SeanDSchaffer said:
Was it a gentleman by the name of Donald Drown? I read a post of his earlier today on PA's boards, and he was very angry at the six or so different people who had emailed him concerning the exact same subject. I think there might have been a bit of overkill on that effort, guys. No offense meant by that, it's just my own humble opinion.

No offense taken. I'm just curious just how many of us he replied to.
 

CaoPaux

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bluwinteryfox said:
They are talking about saving trees http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/3186 the last reply says
Based on my extensive research in the last 2 years, sources vary saying 40-80% of sales are online. Other sources say 20-45% of sales are in brick & mortar bookstores.
How can they believe that. :Headbang: I rarely purchase books online. The last two I did was Atlanta Nights because my car is in the garage without an engine, and the other was one my daughter wanted. I like to go into bookstores and look at the book.
:Wha: Extensive research for the last two years, eh? IIRC, Publishers Weekly's figures for 2004: 57% store, 8% online, 35% other (mail-order, seminar, etc.).
 

keltora

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lindylou45 said:
The only thing I did was send the same information to the Chicago Sun Times that I have sent to every other media outlet. That letter is posted here somewhere, (god only knows where now). I didn't do that to harm this author, I did it to protect others who may potentially be harmed. My letter is not scathing, it simply informs.

The problem is the first letter the author got was from a troublemaker who was banned ages ago...

My letter must have been the second (and yes, I cc'd it to several sources), and while all I did was lay out facts about what PA really is and really does, I was lambasted back with a letter accusing me of trying to rain on PA author's parade by dissing their publisher. I was asked why I even cared who got their books published by PA and further insulted with the following comment:

"A librarian? I can only wonder why someone so
miserable would choose to deal with the public..."

The temptation was to write back and say I was in the information business and I what I did not like was people giving out false information and luring other potential victims into PA clutches, but I declined, decided to take it all with a grain of salt, and shall watch for the "gentleman" to arrive here some time in the future with his tail tucked, because he will realize that we were right and he was wrong.
 

book_maven

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Just a quick note.

I posted the letter I sent to the editors of Sun Publications in this thread yesterday. Though I was outraged at the editors for allowing something so blatantly commerical to pass as editorial, I should have taken out the line about the writer deserving what was coming. That was unprofessional.

As a columnist myself I believe that writers and editors need to keep a strong ethical line between advertising and editorial. It has become blurred in recent years, but this column crossed so far over the line I'd be surprised if it could find its way back.

I did not e-mail the columnist, but did three of the editors. In my view, they bear the greater responsibility for letting this go out. And I stand by what I said even though I would have liked to have said it with two fewer sentences.

Now, back to PublishAmerica / Publish America where the attention belongs.
 
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