The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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NancyMehl

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Hmmmmm

robeiae said:
*cough, hack, wipe with arm* Jees, ire rely aprshate da complee... compla... com *npphhht...picks nose, eats it*... nice thangs yu writ.

Rob

Okay. I retract my previous statement.....;)

Nancy

P.S. PA sucks big rotten eggs......
 

M. Story

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Memphis Ed said:
My personal experience is to buy e-books for infomation and read about 15% of the book, gleaming the info I wanted and dissing the rest. I would never read a novel as an e-book.

As a blond, I personally do not care for e-books. It's hard to get the highlighter off the computer screen. <hair flip, flip>

Seriously, I did buy 2 e-books in the past year: The South Beach Diet and the Purpose Driven Life. Both were perfect to read on-line, because one was basically recipes and the other you were expected to read just a chapter a day. To read a novel on the computer--I don't think so. I couldn't use my pretty bookmark thingie with the little tassel. <hair flip>

This is for Jenna & Lola.....Please....
 

Jeff

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During that time, how many books have you purchased online? How many have you purchased in electronic format? Now, how many have you purchased in a brick and mortar retail outlook?

I hear you, realitychuck.

Guess what my long-suffering, endlessly patient, how-goes-she-put-up-with-me wife just got me for my birthday today?

A Gift Certificate.

To my local Borders Books. An honest-to-God local brick and mortar store.

I am leaving in an hour to go pick out my gifts. I will be able to browse through thousands of titles and read a bit of any I choose. I will be able to heft the book and check out the author info and even check the quality of the binding. Whatever I choose, I will be holding and reading it tonight in bed. :sleepy:

I might even relax while there and have a latte. :Coffee:

Put that into their "all books will be purchased online" pipe and smoke it. :)

=========================

Thanks for the kind wishes, everyone. I appreciate it.
 

Sher2

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Ed Williams said:
P.S. Just for the record, I have just consumed:

A hamdog, God it was great!

Part of a Luther burger!

A fried twinkie!

And on the way home, stopped by a Dairy Queen for a large, Butterfinger blizzard. Wanna know how I feel? Great! And then some!
One question, Big Guy, since I have no head left at this hour for anything resembling serious: were you able to make it home under your own steam or did they have to roll you?;)
 

Sher2

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M. Story said:
As a blond, I personally do not care for e-books. It's hard to get the highlighter off the computer screen. <hair flip, flip>
Honey, I'm not even a blond and I can't do e-books, either. I mean, think about it. I'm already on the computer for ungodly lengths of time. If I'm going to read, I want to hold it and flip through it and smell the ink without my butt going to sleep in my desk chair.:)
 

Christine N.

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I've bought lots of books online. I love to do it around the holidays, when I can avoid the crowds. It's been especially helpful since I've been stuck in the house for three months. But I always know what it is that I want to order beforehand.

If I go the physical bookstore, I spend too much a) time and b) money there. Amazon is safer for me :)

And I HATE ebooks. I wanna take a book outside and read it, or to the beach. Or read it on the train or the doctors office. Sand in my keyboard is NOT fun, and lugging around my laptop is not convenient.
 

DreamWeaver

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M. Story said:
To read a novel on the computer--I don't think so.

I don't think I'd ever read a novel on the computer, but I have "The Three Musketeers" on my Palm Pilot and whenever I'm stuck somewhere waiting, I pull it out and read. I like the fact that it's light, small, fits in my purse easily, and I can jump back and forth from the French version to the English version to check unfamiliar words, or easily go to my French dictionary or verb conjugator, also on the Palm Pilot. I got both the English and French versions off the internet for free from Project Gutenberg (yes, TTM is out of copyright ;)), and paid for the dictionary and verb book, both also downloaded from the internet.

And if I WERE going to buy a PA book, I'd buy the electronic version because it's cheaper. On the other hand, if it's not edited I might throw it against the wall in frustration, and then I'd be out the price of the Palm Pilot
emoticoncry.gif
. So, maybe a PA ebook is NOT such a good idea...

Kris
 

Julian Black

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Reclaiming my title as Queen of the Epic Posts!

Christine N. said:
The heart bleeds...

I wanted to snip this, but I just couldn't find a good place. He had honest crits and praise from real publishers, and chucked it out the window.
I saw that, and my jaw dropped. Then my forehead met my desktop. Repeatedly. If I pull my keyboard a bit further forward, it almost hides the still-smoking crater.

In that four or five year waiting period, he could have written two (maybe three) more books, sent them to his agent and had them published. Made a name for himself while his first ms. aged nicely. If he was wildly successful, those publishers wouldn't have cared about HP before publishing this book.

A little patience was all it would have taken. Sigh. Instead he's stuck with PA.
Exactly. In fact, if he was getting that kind of detailed criticism from editors with big publishers he probably could have found a smaller publisher to take it, Potter be damned.

Now, I'm not published. I have one completed novel that is good only for desk ballast, and a couple of half-completed ones that are dead in the water. However, I'm now writing another, and I believe I'm on the right track with it. I have ideas for several other novels that deal with similar themes, and for the first time in my writing life I really think I'm onto something.

Long before I sat down to work on this book, however, I started doing research on what it actually takes to get a novel published. I wanted to know if my long-cherished fantasy about being a novelist was at all realistic. Should I try for it?

I had no idea how the process worked--Where did agents fit in? How do you get one? What are publishers looking for? What kind of promotion are authors expected to do? What do editors do--after watching a very famous series of vampire books decline in quality due to a no-edit clause, I realized they must do quite a lot, but what?

I figured the best sources of information would not be my fellow unpubbed writers, but rather authors who were actually getting their books published, and the editors who bought those books. After just a few days of searching online, I had already discovered AW, Preditors and Editors, Making Light, Paperback Writer, Scrivener's Error, and John Scalzi's blog. I read AW for six months before signing up and making my first post--long enough to read this entire thread (yeah, I'm sick, but it's better than any soap opera), the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread, and much of Andy Zack's Ask the Agent thread. I followed recommended links, and read the books recommended by the folks who obviously knew what they were talking about.

Now, there's no way I can claim expertise in getting a book published, but after doing my homework and paying attention in class since last August, I have a pretty good idea how to go about submitting queries and MSS, to whom, and why they might accept or reject my work. I'm now aware of how much slush is out there, and how truly bad it is. I know that money flows toward the author, and I know how to spot a scam. I know that it's business, it's not personal, and ultimately it has to be about the reader, not the author's ego.

I already knew that most books are still sold off the shelves of bookstores and other retail outlets, not online, because I'm a reader and I'm well aware of why I buy the books that I do. I know I will reject an overpriced book, or one with low production values, and that a signed copy of a book by an unknown author means nothing to me. Since I've been a bookseller, I know how books get distributed and sold, but none of that is arcane knowledge.

So when I read that guy's post, and saw the level of constructive criticism he was getting from editors who knew they couldn't buy his book, I knew what a Big Effing Deal that was. I saw what he was being handed--and how encouraging that should have been--but he didn't. He wanted his book in print, and he didn't want to wait, or write another book to sell in the meantime, so he's let PA have it. In his impatience--in his thinking solely from the creative end of producing books, not the business end--he's doomed his own book. The whole trilogy, in fact. And the saddest part is that it's probably really good.

Which all brings me back to the one big question I always have when I read things like this from the PA boards--doesn't anyone do any research at all? I honestly don't understand how anyone can spend so much time and effort writing a book and sending it out to publishers without first trying to understand the basics of how books get into print and onto bookstore shelves.

Seriously--things like advances, developmental editing as opposed to copy editing, the craft of layout and book design, and how a book gets national placement, promotion, and distribution are not difficult concepts to grasp. The information is all out there on the web, for anyone who is willing to take the time to go look for it--I found it, after all.

Some of the misconceptions I've seen on the PA boards are truly astounding, and I know these aren't stupid people. They are smart and disciplined and determined enough to have written books, and they work like mad to get them out into the world despite all the impediments their publisher throws in their way. Yet I see the same errors repeated as fact over and over again--that POD is the way of the future, and that selling books from your website rather than bookstores is the way to go, is typical.

Every time I see another misconception get passed around as fact on the PA boards, I want to step in and explain how things really work--but I can't.

Obviously, some of the authors over there are hip to it, now, and it's always heartening to see them step in and correct some of the most glaring wrongs. I think the cross-pollination between here and the PA boards is having a positive effect. For instance, I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to give Jean Marie reputation points, lately. [laughs] I'm looking forward to the day she finally makes her appearance over here...
 

Memphis Ed

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Online book purchase

Will you buy fiction on-line without someone recommending the book or your hearing about it somehow (i.e. advertisement in USA Today or similar)?

I have purchased non-fiction for information, but don't know if I would buy a novel off of a sight such as Amazon or PA (even assuming I didn't know their deal). I know there are some rabid readers of certain genre, such as SF, romance, etc. but will you take a chance based upon a title and summary?

BTW, I appreciate the gracious welcome notes I have received today...thank you.
 

NancyMehl

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Jenna....

JennaGlatzer said:
Guys, I give up. And now, yes, I am pissed. I feel extremely disrespected that just about no one did what I asked (four times), which was to MOVE ON and stop talking about Gena. I'm not saying that to "protect" her or to "stifle" you, just to get back on track! If people had been able to do that, there would have been NO NEED for further messages about my "letting this continue." I'm not letting anything continue! Every moment I'm awake I'm monitoring and trying to get the discussion back on track! What's so difficult about this?? I shouldn't have to delete anything-- I'm not the one who let anything continue-- your fellow posters did, by bringing it up again and again after I begged you to let it all drop. I am going to ban her for the last nastygram, but it should never have come to that.

Well, I feel terrible. But I have to bring up a couple of things. First of all, I posted something that was not the least bit confrontational. At the time, I "thought" I was being helpful. (I guess I was way off on that.) It wasn't addressed to G*** at all. It was a general comment about the situation. It was deleted. I have to admit that I was surprised by that. Secondly, you must realize that sometimes by the time I get here, I am pages and pages behind on postings. Many, many times, I am replying to something that happened several pages before I get to a post or a "warning" that is a response to the one I answered. I think that might be some of the problem. Maybe I will just start reading all the way through before I post. Even though I thought what I posted was okay, to be honest, by the time I read to the end of the thread, I probably shouldn't have posted it. If I had to do it again - I wouldn't.

I understand why it can be upsetting when someone with a bad attitude comes here and seems to have the freedom to spout off - while regular posters who have put time and effort into this place are asked to stifle themselves. I think some people get defensive because they care about this place. Territory and all that. However, I do understand the concept - and that is that this thread is here to help current PA authors - and to keep other writers from signing with PA. Because of that, we have to let people come here and "defend" their publisher. It is my job to abide by your rules - or leave. I choose to abide by them because I like it here, and I respect you. I did not intend to "go over the line" the other night - and didn't think I had. But, as I said, I was a few pages behind in my postings and didn't realize the severity of your warnings until it was too late. I humbly apologize. If I am ever seen as a problem here, I will leave.

I hope you won't be mad for too long.

Nancy
 

Christine N.

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I have to say, in response to that poor guy, that six months ago I might have done the same thing myself. I'm pretty impatient, and really just want the book to be done. I had no idea I had to wait for my editor to be ready, or that my book was put into a queue after being accepted. I really just thought - "ok, it's accepted, let's get to work" LOL.

I'm still waiting. Not as impatiently, but still kinda well impatient. I know my book is coming out with the fall books (yay!) but I am anxiously awaiting my galleys so that the review copies can get out there. Sigh.

Having a book published has been educational. And and exercise in patience.
 

DreamWeaver

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Jeff said:
To my local Borders Books. An honest-to-God local brick and mortar store...[snip]...I might even relax while there and have a latte. :Coffee:

Okay, I admit, that's definitely something I can't get online. A good book, a nice latte (that I don't have to make myself and clean up afterwards :)), and a comfortable place to sit, sip, and read...yep, I'd go to THAT bookstore.

I just wouldn't find any PA books in it (See? I'm TRYING to stay OT).

Kris
 

pepperlandgirl

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Online Book Purchases

Wow, I'm blown away by the number of people who never, or rarely, buy books online. Heh, I buy all my books online. I hate driving to book stores--I'm lazy. Amazon is a god-send to me.

I'm also surprised by the number of people who don't like to read on the computer. Though I suppose it's because I read ungodly amount of fanfic, and so spending hours and hours hunched over a computer doesn't bother me.

I was thinking about all the ways PA writers try to market/sell their books. If I were them, I would take it to used book stores. They wouldn't get money (though they might get store credit...) but they would get their names out there! Which seems to be the point of most of their schemes...
 

DreamWeaver

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Memphis Ed said:
Will you buy fiction on-line without someone recommending the book or your hearing about it somehow (i.e. advertisement in USA Today or similar)?

I'm one of the folks who buys a lot of books online, but I would have to answer no. I either have to have read other books by the same author, or get a recommendation from someone whose judgment I trust. I don't think I would buy one based solely on an advertisement, either.

Kris
 
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James D. Macdonald

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Fascinating as e-books are, PA stopped selling e-books a while ago.

Part of that, I'm sure, is how in the world do you go about selling multiple copies of their own e-book to the author? Another part was that they were caught using the same ISBN for the paper version and the e-book version.

Now, on the the "environmental" friendliness of POD. You'll see that being touted here.

I live in a lumbering town in a lumbering community. The nearest paper mill is thirty miles down the road. Believe me on this: Saying "Save the trees! Use less paper!" is like saying "Save the wheat! Eat less bread!"

Paper comes from pulpwood that is planted, tended, harvested, and replanted. Paper, from trees, is a renewable resouce.

Print on Demand uses more resources, not less, because it has no economies of scale.
 

MsRasputina

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You can sign me as another "Not a big e-book fan." I don't know why, but trying to read books online never works out for me. (Don't ask me how I managed to get through this whole thread.)

As for buying regular dead-tree books, I use Amazon when I know what I want and don't mind waiting. But that won't ever replace the fun I have just browsing the stacks in a brick-and-mortar store. Plus, I like to skim if I'm picking up something I've never heard about; it's hard to do that on Amazon if the book in question doesn't have that "Look inside" feature.

So I don't think PA ought to be writing obituaries for the good old-fashioned bookstore just yet.
 

SeanDSchaffer

DreamWeaver said:
Okay, I admit, that's definitely something I can't get online. A good book, a nice latte (that I don't have to make myself and clean up afterwards :)), and a comfortable place to sit, sip, and read...yep, I'd go to THAT bookstore.

I just wouldn't find any PA books in it (See? I'm TRYING to stay OT).

Kris


Actually, you might indeed find one or two PA books in a major bookstore like that, but only because the author came into that bookstore and asked for them to shelve it, and because the manager didn't know what the company's policies were concerning PA or other such books.

Independent stores are generally more willing, from what I've seen, to carry PA books than, obviously, Borders or B&N. My guess is that many independent stores still don't have much experience with PA, which is why more PA books are even now accepted in those places.


As far as sitting down with a latte and that kind of stuff, I've seen that at a couple of local bookstores where I live. There's a major, major Borders (Also a Powell's) in downtown Portland that has a large coffee shop in it and live music once-in-a-great-while; and I believe the Barnes & Noble store up the street from where I live also has a coffee shop in it. (Not certain, but I think the said coffee shop might be a Starbuck's.) I wouldn't mind sitting down with a freshly-bought book right there in the store, and taking a load off while reading a little bit of the book with a latte in my hand. That sounds quite relaxing.
 

mdin

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pepperlandgirl said:
Wow, I'm blown away by the number of people who never, or rarely, buy books online. Heh, I buy all my books online. I hate driving to book stores--I'm lazy. Amazon is a god-send to me.

I buy about 75% of my books online.

The big difference for me is every single book I've ever purchased from Amazon is a book I specifically looked for. I have never thought I'm going to buy a random book today and logged onto Amazon. I do buy random books, but they're always from the shelves.

And that's (one of the many, many reasons) why PA books fail. Their books are invisible. We sure hear a lot about PA, and sometimes an author distinguishes himself in a good or bad way. I can count on my hand the number of PA titles that have gained any sort of notice.
 

DreamWeaver

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James D. Macdonald said:
Fascinating as e-books are, PA stopped selling e-books a while ago.

Oops, I think I was confusing them with Lulu.com, which I visited recently also. Sorry :(.

Kris
 

Patricia

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Meanwhile,

...back at the farm. I just got in a few minutes ago from a book-signing gig that normally would be "to die for." The table was beautiful, finger foods, coffee, punch and water. Add to those, chocolate-covered strawberries. No one said anything about my publisher -- one person ask me if it was my first book and when I replied yes, got all excited wanting info about PA. I said; I'm sorry I can't at this time, recommend my publisher. Please call me at this number and I will fill you in on how to find a reputable publisher. I got a few puzzled looks, but no dissension from anyone. When she calls, I will fill her in and point her in this direction.

All proceeds from that sigining, go to charity.

It's because of Jenna's generosity and the contribution of Jim, Ed, and others that this forum is available to help me, along with others who venture here. I'm proud to send people here to find help and hope that can continue.
 

astonwest

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NancyMehl said:
Many, many times, I am replying to something that happened several pages before I get to a post or a "warning" that is a response to the one I answered. I think that might be some of the problem.

A nice little trick: If there's a post you want to respond to, but you're still about ten pages from the last post on the thread, right click the quote button, and hit "open link in new window". This will open up a new browser window with a reply window. Continue to read through the posts on the original thread, repeating the process for any other posts you'd like to respond to. Then, when you reach the end of the thread, you go back to your responses, write them up, and submit them (and if not too long, you can copy and paste them into one reply window). That way, if you come across a warning (or if someone responds to a question before you do, which happens quite often for me), you can close out that reply window...

Just something to consider...
 

SeanDSchaffer

Gratian Gasparri said:
How many PA books did you read before signing with PA?


Gratian, in answer to your question:

I don't remember having read any PA books before signing with them. In hindsight, I think I should have at least tried to find one in a bookstore, so I could have found out just how available they really were -- and so I could have seen first-hand their physical quality standards. Had I seen all this before I signed with them, I imagine I might have said 'thanks, but no thanks,' to PA's contract.
 
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