which comes first, the agent or the editor?

AussieBilly

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Let us assume I have finally finished my wonderful 90k-word novel. It is, after many drafts/rewrites, the best I can make it. Should I find an editor and pay to have the ms made even better? Or attempt to find an agent knowing the chances are good editing will have to be done prior to submission to a publisher?
Will the editor I hire polish my ms to fit all agents needs? Will I be wasting my $$ on the editor only to have an agent dismiss that and want my work edited his/her way?
Bottomline: which comes first, an agent or an editor?
 

Osulagh

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Should I find an editor and pay to have the ms made even better?
Edit your MS to the best of your abilities, refining both the story and writing, and make sure it's free of errors (that you can see)--this includes editing to what critics and beta-readers tell you.

Or attempt to find an agent knowing the chances are good editing will have to be done prior to submission to a publisher?
Let me straighten this out: The publisher will either have one of their editors fully edit your MS, or hire one to do so. This is part of their responsibility. I've heard of agents editing MSs before submitting to publishers (touch ups, and asking for revision by the writer). But ultimately, the publisher will, and should, edit your MS fully.

Will the editor I hire polish my ms to fit all agents needs?
Impossible. There's no "one-size-fits-all" editing job. You can't just throw your MS to an editor and have them "edit" it without guidelines. They'll proofread, copy edit, ect. Then, no MS and no amount of editing will appeal to all agents--or even 1% of them (just like all readers).

Will I be wasting my $$ on the editor only to have an agent dismiss that and want my work edited his/her way?
Agents represent books that they think they can sell to publishers; if they don't believe it's up to their standards, they'll pass. And yes, wasting money.

Bottomline: which comes first, an agent or an editor?
Editing yourself, then agent, then the editor at a publisher.

Now, hiring an editor before seeking an agent isn't bad. The only downside is that you'll be spending money into editing that will, and should, be taken care of by the publisher. A good editor, depending on the job and how much work they have to put in, will cost you several thousands--which will be hard to pay off looking at the advances and royalties debut authors may get.
 

AussieBilly

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That was quick... thank you, Osulagh (where'd you get a name like that?)
Your response about what I expected but had to ask anyway.
Thank goodness I'm still a looooong way from believing this work is finished. Possibly it never will. At that time I think the search will be for beta readers... then let the process begin.
Ain't it fun?
Again, thanks..............
 

Old Hack

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Revise the work as thoroughly as you can without help. Use Share Your Work here to get a few pointers: while you can only showcase a relatively small portion of the work, the problems which will come to light in that small portion generally appear throughout the rest of the work too, so it's really useful.

Once that's done consider a beta-reader, or join a writers' group.

Once you feel you've done all you can, then find an agent.

If you get several personalised rejections which point to the same things, and have sent it out to a good number of agents without success, consider working with a good editorial agency to bring the book up to speed. But remember you're unlikely to ever see anything back on this investment, so don't do it if you can't afford to lose that money.
 

Jo Zebedee

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I'll buck the trend. :) i went write, beta, hone, (for many cycles), developmental edit (high level overview, not line edit, although any horrors were highlighted), agent, and, I hope sometime in the future publisher's editor.

For my trilogy I did the same but sold to a small pub so missed out the agent stage.

There seems to be a real resistance on AW against editors before subbing - and given some of the prices bandied around I can understand - but I found it the single best thing I ever did to improve my writing and bring it to submission-level.

Sorry. There's always a contrary one. :D
 

Old Hack

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Springs, I think paid-for editorial agencies provide a great service, and there are a few I'm happy to recommend.

However, I do add this qualification to every recommendation: it's important to use the agency's advice as a learning tool for all your future books, rather than just considering it in response to the book they work on for you.

I'd be wary of using editors, rather than established editorial agencies, because there's no quality control involved with their work: anyone can call themselves an editor and take your money, and I've seen all sorts of horrible advice given out by such editors. Obviously there are many exceptions to this rule: but err on the side of caution.
 

waylander

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I'm with Springs on this one, there are circumstances when a paid editor is valuable, certainly if you are getting full requests from agents and then 'not quite there' rejections. But first use up all the free options of beta readers and crit groups.
 
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Jo Zebedee

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Springs, I think paid-for editorial agencies provide a great service, and there are a few I'm happy to recommend.

However, I do add this qualification to every recommendation: it's important to use the agency's advice as a learning tool for all your future books, rather than just considering it in response to the book they work on for you.

I'd be wary of using editors, rather than established editorial agencies, because there's no quality control involved with their work: anyone can call themselves an editor and take your money, and I've seen all sorts of horrible advice given out by such editors. Obviously there are many exceptions to this rule: but err on the side of caution.

Absolutely. I got both my editors from word of mouth in a specialist web site. One was a published author (by one of the big6) and she was amazing - I'm lucky enough that she's editing the trilogy for me with my publisher, and that was one of the big reasons I went with them. But there are so many - not even charlatans, but just editors lacking experience - I'd definitely be wary of choosing someone without good research.

And yes, the sort of feedback I got was the type carried into every book - how to overcome my description deficiencies, how to build secondary characters, pacing that sort of thing. I think that was way more useful than a line edit, which crits and good betas gave me.

I'm with Springs on this one, there are circumstances when a paid eidotr is valuable, certainly if you are getting full requests from agents and then 'not quite there' rejections. But first use up all the free options of beta readers and crit groups.

Absolutely. I'd had extensive crits. I wanted my money's worth, not to be caught up in basic errors!
 

ThatWolfAgain

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This is a question I've wondered about myself, but more in terms of a specific editor. My teacher (a grad student) in my intro creative writing class seemed to 'get' my work and provide suggestions that vastly improved the stories all while staying within the kind of vision I was going for. He's provided the best critiques I've had to date (and I've had a lot of critiques from different people at this point), and while I'm not sure if he'd be willing to take on a novel I'm seriously considering asking when I've finished my WIP. I don't know how much he'd charge - if he'd be willing to do it at all - and my funds are pretty limited, but I still can't help but think that it would improve the thing so much it would be worth it.
 

Old Hack

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Your teacher might well have given you a great critique, but that's not the same thing at all as being an editor. He won't have the industry knowledge or understanding that a good editorial agency has, and that's really important. Editorial agencies know what they're doing, they know what you need to do to fix things, and they know what publishers prefer.

Your teacher might work out a little cheaper, but you'll get a lot more out of the help an editorial agency will give you.
 

Debbie V

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I'm seriously considering asking when I've finished my WIP. I don't know how much he'd charge - if he'd be willing to do it at all - and my funds are pretty limited, but I still can't help but think that it would improve the thing so much it would be worth it.

Ask him to do it for free. He might be willing. Maybe ask only about the first few chapters. Those problems will exist in the rest of the manuscript. Then see if he's hooked on the story and wants to work on; or, at least, read the rest. If he's not hooked, find out why and go from there. He's your primary beta reader.

Old Hack is right, he isn't necessarily qualified to edit.
 
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AussieBilly

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Ah, yesterday Gingerwoman replied but then deleted her comment. Too bad, I know it was a good one.
Okay people, I want to thank you, one and all. My question has been answered... the process is; write, query, agent, editor, publish. Between write and query, get feedback from as many people as possible. Sounds simple, doesn't it..........
My dream, as with most writers I'll bet, is to write stories, send them to an agent who does his/her job and leaves me to return to write the next story while that process moves on without me. Ah, yes.......
But it don't happen that way. Too bad, cuz I got a lotta stories.
Not to be despondent about it tho, I'll continue to do my part, I'll write. When my WIP is complete and pristine, it's to beta readers I'll go. Just following the path as suggested by all those replies my question raised. Thank you one and all......
Now back to the WIP.........
 

gingerwoman

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I'm sorry, I was worried that maybe my comment might come across as too opinionated, but basically I'm one of those people who doesn't think you should be spending money before submitting to editors and agents.
 
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Old Hack

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Ginger, because I'm a mod here I can read the post that you deleted. I don't see any problem with it: in fact, I thought you made a valuable point. And you're allowed to express your opinions here, so long as you do so in a respectful way (which you did).