Love story not romance

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Deb Kinnard

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So, I've been mentoring this writer via the 'Net. She read one of my books, asked her if I'd look at a first chapter of hers. I said sure, but I'm exceedingly picky and if the first chapter didn't work for me, I'd bail and leave her what comments I could on how to bring it up a level.

Long story short--her first chapter blew me out of the water. Newbie mistakes? She didn't make 'em. Backstory in the first ten pages? Nuh-uh. She took every risk a new writer doesn't take, whacked me and rocked it like...whoa.

I told her to send more.

Eventually she sent the whole thing. Now that I've read it all, I realize I can't present it for her to my small press, 'cause they only do romance.

Her story is -- think Nick Sparks but more intense. Higher stakes. More emotion. And no Happily Ever After.

I can't think of many houses that will be interested. Though they should be.

Thoughts? I'd love to hear of someone who'll fall over their feet to get this book.
 

Wilde_at_heart

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Maybe encourage her to submit to agents/publishers who take on Women's Fiction?
 

amergina

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Various imprints of Harlequin take woman's fiction...MIRA is one, I think. And I believe they accept unagented submissions.

(I'm sorry you got burnt with your agent experience. Mine's been very positive so far.)
 

Deb Kinnard

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Many, if not most, agents are a blessing and an asset in an author's career. I'm glad you've found a good one. I keep writing and keep selling, and that's where it's at for me. I never had a single book sell, except through my own efforts and not through the agent's, while I was contracted with an agent.

So I see no downside at this time. The industry has changed.

Any further suggestions of WF houses would be most welcome, romancers.
 

ARoyce

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Many, if not most, agents are a blessing and an asset in an author's career. I'm glad you've found a good one. I keep writing and keep selling, and that's where it's at for me. I never had a single book sell, except through my own efforts and not through the agent's, while I was contracted with an agent.

So I see no downside at this time. The industry has changed.

Any further suggestions of WF houses would be most welcome, romancers.

I love my agent, but if you're dead set against them, here are a couple of suggestions:
1) have her search on querytracker.net for publishers of WF and their submission guidelines
2) my publisher Kensington Publishing (which is a big but not Big Five NYC pub) accepts unagented subs, including WF.

Best of luck to your friend!
 

mada

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I believe Omnific accepts unagented and welcomes WF. I've had a few friends with them and they've had positive experiences.
 

Evangeline

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I don't think you should allow your experience with agents to hold this author back from making her own decisions about her career. Women's Fiction (or Commercial/Mainstream Fiction) is a genre that obtains the widest exposure in traditional print publishing, and an agent is vital for navigating the best house and editor for her work. If you don't think you are objective enough to guide this author to every choice available to her, I suggest you refer to her WF authors you know, or suggest she attend a top tier writer's conference (Rocky Mountain Fiction Writers, DFW Con, etc) where she can meet fellow authors and industry professionals (where, incidentally, she can probably pitch her book to an editor).
 
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Deb Kinnard

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I mis-spoke. She knows agents exist, and I could probably talk her into subbing to one if I chose to. I don't expect her to follow my path and it isn't in her best interest for me to try. For one thing, both my agents worked in the Christian fic market, and her book is decidedly not a fit for that market. I know little about agents who sell to both C-fic and mainstream markets. She and I have never discussed agents per se, except when she mentioned that she realizes that's one course she might take.

She's not sold enough on the idea that this book can be publication-ready in fairly short order. That said, I'm not sure conferences are the place for her at this time. One piece of advice I did offer her was to find a writing group local to her, and share/learn with them.
 

gingerwoman

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I mis-spoke. She knows agents exist, and I could probably talk her into subbing to one if I chose to. I don't expect her to follow my path and it isn't in her best interest for me to try. For one thing, both my agents worked in the Christian fic market, and her book is decidedly not a fit for that market. I know little about agents who sell to both C-fic and mainstream markets. She and I have never discussed agents per se, except when she mentioned that she realizes that's one course she might take.

She's not sold enough on the idea that this book can be publication-ready in fairly short order. That said, I'm not sure conferences are the place for her at this time. One piece of advice I did offer her was to find a writing group local to her, and share/learn with them.
I could PM you opportunities I know of where publishers are looking for women's fiction, but unagented opportunities would tend to be focused on the digital first market.

My own publisher Samhain is not very interested in unhappy endings, except of course for their horror line. lol But I know of other digital first imprints that are, if she wants the relative speed of going that route, rather than doing the agent hunt thing. PM me if you want.
 
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gingerwoman

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Various imprints of Harlequin take woman's fiction...MIRA is one, I think. And I believe they accept unagented submissions.

(I'm sorry you got burnt with your agent experience. Mine's been very positive so far.)
Mira's current guidelines still state they do not take unagented submissions, although I have reason to believe they may also be starting up a digital first line in future. Which will be ebook and POD.
 
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Evangeline

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I mis-spoke. She knows agents exist, and I could probably talk her into subbing to one if I chose to. I don't expect her to follow my path and it isn't in her best interest for me to try. For one thing, both my agents worked in the Christian fic market, and her book is decidedly not a fit for that market. I know little about agents who sell to both C-fic and mainstream markets. She and I have never discussed agents per se, except when she mentioned that she realizes that's one course she might take.

She's not sold enough on the idea that this book can be publication-ready in fairly short order. That said, I'm not sure conferences are the place for her at this time. One piece of advice I did offer her was to find a writing group local to her, and share/learn with them.

The easiest way to find an agent is to crack open a book in your chosen genre and read the acknowledgements page. Off the top of my head, I know Rachelle Gardner reps the Christian and Mainstream market. Michelle Brower is a top agent for women's fiction (reps a few author friends).

And attending a conference isn't just about pitching, it's about networking and getting a feel for the genre/industry. :)
 

aruna

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Check out Bookouture. E-first publisher with POD, mine. Totally satisfied. They specialise in Women's Fiction, and no agent required. An agent works for them for foreign sales..
 
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Monkeyarcher

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Hi.
My name is Edward, and I am kinda newish here, so forgive me if I go about this wrong, but your original post brought up a question for me -
how happy doe the "happily ever after" need to be for Romance? I have heard that this is a trait looked for in Romance, but do the characters have to walk away hand-in-hand to plan the rest of their lives, or can it be something milder? (admittedly, I am thinking in terms of shorter fiction, although I am not sure it matters.)
 

Evangeline

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Happily Ever After (HEA) implies the protagonists are in a permanent, committed relationship--and no one dies, lol.

Here's the tricky thing most non-romance readers cannot distinguish when determining if they write romance: the HEA isn't exclusive to the romance genre, but it is the defining aspect because the plot is about the romantic relationship. If the romantic relationship is part of the plot, you aren't writing romance.

The best example I've come across that explains the difference between the romance genre and romantic/love stories or books with romantic elements is this:

Speed
ends with Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves kissing, the two of them having fallen for one another over the process of keeping a bus from exploding. But the plot isn't about their romance, it's about stopping that bus from exploding.

In contrast, The Lake House is about Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves falling in love (though, if this were a book, I'm sure it'd be published as women's fiction because of the unconventional storytelling device [timeslip-ish]). Every aspect of the plot is about their romance.
 

Beachgirl

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Monkey, Happy for Now (HFN) is perfectly acceptable for many publishers and readers, though some imprints may want HEA.

As for the difference between a romance and a story with romantic elements, I've heard a simple explanation:

If you can take the love story out of the book and still have a plot, then you don't have a romance. If you take the love story out of the book and the plot falls apart, you do have a romance.
 

Monkeyarcher

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thanks

what you say about what happens if you lift the romance out makes sense, and is very similar to what I have heard Jordan Summers explain to people. As a matter of fact, there are a few books categorized as romance that I debate could have the romance lifted out and replaced with just a very smart monkey friend and nothing would change, but that is beside the point...

But I am happy to hear that it can be "Happy For Now".

I hope I am not beleaguering (huh, I have never seen the progressive form of that verb before) a point, but, would the two people realizing that they should have been together all along count as a happy ending? Like Bob and Janet have been friends and we watch them interact and go on unsuccessful dates with others, and at the end, they just suddenly realize that the people they have been looking for all along has been each other. They smile, they agree to go on a date, end scene. Would that possibly qualify as a romance, or would it be a love story, or would it be maybe something else entirely?

(I have been tasked with trying to write a romance, and while I find the above concept romantic, I don't know if it would qualify as a romance.:Shrug: )
 

Deb Kinnard

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Yes, Monkey, IMO that's a romance, or falls within parameters. It reminds me of "When Harry Met Sally," and that's sure a romance though they don't realize they're headed for marriage until very late in the book.

An update of sorts is that my mentoree (is that a word?) has changed her ending so that now both partners survive Chapter 31, and are heading firmly toward an HEA. I still liked the shock of her earlier ending, but this was her choice and I think her story is now more easily marketable.

Wish her luck!
 
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